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DoubleUp8

DoubleUp8

Gambler
Dec 14, 2023
458
And people who try to tell others what they can and can't ingest or inject into their own bodies are truly the ones who are mentally sick. No country that has legalized drugs or legalized euthanasia is saying they made a mistake and reversing course as far as I can see. Maybe someone here knows something different. United States government should be forbidden from ever making drug policy after such a bad call making marijuana illegal for nearly 100 years. No state that has legalized weed is reversing course. Hell, they all got big budget surpluses from taxing legal weed which they shouldn't be allowed to do after having it illegal for all these years. But that's the price we pay. Why then not be intelligent about it and legalize all drugs. If they're really concerned about overdose deaths they would charge pharmaceutical companies with making the safest possible versions of all popular drugs. Make drugs legal and as safe as possible. I really don't believe our politicians want to decrease od deaths. I believe they want more for a number of reasons. Decrease the population. Taking bribes from cartels. Continuing to have an "opioid epidemic" issue to rant about. I could go on but I want to see feedback.
 
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Sunset Limited

Sunset Limited

I believe in Sunset Limited
Jul 29, 2019
1,212
For the first time I really wanted to die at the age of 20. I'm here for 27 more years just because others want me to. Someone must take responsibility for this. This should be a crime. 27 unwanted more wasted years! Everything is getting worse, I can't leave this place because my mother is old and in need of care. When I was 20, the only obstacle between me and CTB was the ideas in other people's minds. Staying here an extra 27 years just to avoid hurting their feelings. This is a horrific crime.
 
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vinylzstar

vinylzstar

Member
Feb 19, 2024
13
I think it's less of a mental illness, moreso they blindly think they're being a good person without proper communication; suicide is a hardly talked about thing among 'common' societies, and so people learn how to deal with a suicidal person less and less, and come off as more pushy.
 
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DoubleUp8

DoubleUp8

Gambler
Dec 14, 2023
458
I think it's less of a mental illness, moreso they blindly think they're being a good person without proper communication; suicide is a hardly talked about thing among 'common' societies, and so people learn how to deal with a suicidal person less and less, and come off as more pushy.
When you understand what they're really about and I am not speaking about your friends and family who may truly be concerned and saddened and miss you when you're gone. I am talking about a mental health care establishment (a racket really). The people who work for those entities that don't know you and are really just exploiting suicidal people for profit. They clearly don't care about you and some don't even feign concern. People who get held against their will over some phony mental health pretext are routinely abused and this is always a human rights violation according to the UN. It's those people who exhibit this type of sadistic narcissism and desire to control others whose mental health I question.
 
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Nikitatos

Nikitatos

Specialist
Apr 10, 2024
314
Freedom is a pretty simple concept. Either you believe in it or you don't. Unfortunately, politics and power make people want to control others.
 
W

world is unfair

Loser
Jun 9, 2024
44
For the first time I really wanted to die at the age of 20. I'm here for 27 more years just because others want me to. Someone must take responsibility for this. This should be a crime. 27 unwanted more wasted years! Everything is getting worse, I can't leave this place because my mother is old and in need of care. When I was 20, the only obstacle between me and CTB was the ideas in other people's minds. Staying here an extra 27 years just to avoid hurting their feelings. This is a horrific crime.
It seems that you had a good childhood. The first time I wanted to commit suicide was when I was 13 years old, but it didn't work. I am now 21 years old and I want to die this week or next week..
 
DesperateOne

DesperateOne

Specialist
May 25, 2023
305
In my country there was recently a referendum on euthanasia. Medical chamber gave out a statement on what they think about this whole thing. I think these are some pretty good arguments from doctors. Let me know what you think if you do read it all.

"On 7 March this year (2024), the PPKŽ Bill was rejected in the National Assembly. This did not stop the promoters: their decision to pass such a law was therefore conceived as a consultative referendum to be held at the same time as the European elections on 9 June this year. This would ensure the best possible turnout and, in the face of a great deal of media propaganda, misleading, obfuscating and glorifying, would try to get as many votes as possible in favour of such a law, in order to portray its adoption as the will of the electorate.

They would have washed their own hands of it in a Pilate-like manner. The Freedom Movement's media campaign is misleading the electorate and suppressing the real content of the introduction not only of assisted suicide, where the person concerned has to take the lethal substance himself, but also of euthanasia, which does not exist almost anywhere in the world and where a third party carries out the killing. The referendum question is also misleading, according to the Constitutional Court. It asks only: 'Are you in favour of a law regulating the right to assistance in the voluntary ending of life?' This is how the promoters are trying to get this highly controversial law around the bend, using demagogic statements about assistance to end life with dignity.

The proposal, which was made without the participation of the medical organisations and which they all unanimously oppose, places the onus on doctors to implement it in the first place. Only conscientious objection could avoid this for the time being (and in Scandinavia and Canada they no longer have conscientious objection either!). The Bill is about the right to die, not about the possibility of ending life by assisted dying, where, for example, the patient would discuss this with his or her doctor.

Switzerland, which is constantly referred to in the media here, has had assisted suicide legal since 1941, but not euthanasia. This assistance is carried out by non-medical, paid euthanasia practitioners outside medical institutions. It is, in fact, inadmissible for a doctor to kill. The highest code of medical ethics has forbidden it since Hippocrates, and we doctors identify with this mission. The culture of life for which the doctor is fighting is being imposed on him by attempts to replace it with a culture of death. The bill very misleadingly singles out individuals who are 'suffering unbearably' and deserve mercy. But laws are never passed for rare individuals! It is the socially weaker members of society, the elderly, the mentally and other chronically ill and the disabled who are particularly targeted by this Bill.

For all the above reasons, the PPKŽ Bill is not necessary and should not be passed!

The adoption of this law would open the door to abuses that are already taking place around the world. In particular, this concerns organ transplants, which are now also being obtained in an incriminated manner. Of course, there is, above all, an economic interest behind this, because it is about making large profits and enriching oneself at the expense of those who are rich and who can use the money to prolong their lives. Today's materialistically oriented society considers "making money" as the only value. Alex Schadenberg reports that Canada has saved millions in pension and health care funds since the law was enacted.

The world's rigid policies have gone backwards and have proved totally incapable of keeping up with demographic, structural and other trends, even though they could have prevented a global plague in the sneaky form of introducing the legal murder of useless individuals!"

People must be prevented from falling into negative habits. If you incite people to kill, they will slowly get used to it and it will become something "normal" for them.

Therefore, we must nip in the bud such habits and the proposals for laws that give these destructive habits a legitimate stamp of approval.

This was an excerpt from the following "https://www.zdravniskazbornica.si/informacije-publikacije-in-analize/obvestila/2024/06/05/evtanazija-koga-se-hočejo-znebiti-predlog-zakona-o-pomoči-pri-prostovoljnem-končanju-življenja-(ppkž)-pod-vprašajem!"
 
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SilentSadness

SilentSadness

Suffering.
Feb 28, 2023
947
I think it's dangerous to call people with different opinions mentally ill, even if they take action because people should be held responsible for their actions. However I agree that it's terrible and insensitive to force someone to stay alive against their will. After all this time people still refuse to accept suicide as a valid choice.
 
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DoubleUp8

DoubleUp8

Gambler
Dec 14, 2023
458
Freedom is a pretty simple concept. Either you believe in it or you don't. Unfortunately, politics and power make people want to control others.
Apparently not simple enough for everyone to understand when I been hearing the United States is a free country my whole life.
 
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L

LaughingGoat

Mage
Apr 11, 2024
598
If they're really concerned about overdose deaths they would charge pharmaceutical companies with making the safest possible versions of all popular drugs. Make drugs legal and as safe as possible. I really don't believe our politicians want to decrease od deaths. I believe they want more for a number of reasons. Decrease the population. Taking bribes from cartels. Continuing to have an "opioid epidemic" issue to rant about. I could go on but I want to see feedback.
How would you make Oxycontin safer? The opioid crisis is due to over-prescription and abuse, as in taking more than is needed, and access to use of synthetic opioids like fentanyl which is mainly sourced from the street since hospitals usually only administer it while you're a patient for surgery or hospice care. Making a pain killer drug less effective would then limit it's use. I can't use opioids, but I imagine there are tons of people in here with chronic physical pain who need painkillers to even get through the day and are partially suicidal due to needing relief. The problem with fentanyl isn't the legal version being administered by an anesthesiologist, it's the illegal version. Making it legal wouldn't make sense since allowing free access to a drug that you can so easily overdose on accidentally would be insane for any government or manufacturer to do.
 
T

thenamingofcats

annihilation anxiety
Apr 19, 2024
453
I feel like it's getting worse. It's practically impossible to get opioids and benzos now, even for people that really need them. I'm not on benzos anymore but when I needed them and moved, the new clinic had an outright ban so no one could have them. Not even those that had a history of using them responsibly when it was the appropriate drug for them. Now I'm going through this with Vyvanse and shortages. I've said it before on here but I believe the FDA wants amphetamines off the market to avoid another drug crisis and they don't gaf about people that rely on these drugs to just function normally.
 
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BlockHammer

BlockHammer

Confused loser
Oct 25, 2023
201
I dont lable this type of people as mentally ill but arrogant, arrogant because they think they know better than us, arrogant because they think every challenge can be faced by many individuals with different strength,flaw,background and also opportunity, arogant to think that our perception is biased while they also have their own biased toward lifes. I understand that would be a slippery slope if we had this policy regarding euthanasia but let's be real, the conditioned of the current economy has gotten worse to the point that gen z like me have to depend on my parents to fulfil my daily needs which's honsetly make me feel ashamed and lead me wanting to off myself. But even then politican can't solve this issue cause peobably they busy exploiting other and those aroggant pro-life had the audacity to said that we should keep on living despite the world situation???
 
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DoubleUp8

DoubleUp8

Gambler
Dec 14, 2023
458
How would you make Oxycontin safer? The opioid crisis is due to over-prescription and abuse, as in taking more than is needed, and access to use of synthetic opioids like fentanyl which is mainly sourced from the street since hospitals usually only administer it while you're a patient for surgery or hospice care. Making a pain killer drug less effective would then limit it's use. I can't use opioids, but I imagine there are tons of people in here with chronic physical pain who need painkillers to even get through the day and are partially suicidal due to needing relief. The problem with fentanyl isn't the legal version being administered by an anesthesiologist, it's the illegal version. Making it legal wouldn't make sense since allowing free access to a drug that you can so easily overdose on accidentally would be insane for any government or manufacturer to do.
Oxycodone or oxycontin is actually quite safe if used responsibly. Countries who have legalized drugs have seen great reduction in od deaths. Makes more sense. In your pro-criminal cartel view you think it's safer when people are getting fentanyl without being aware of it? When people never know exactly what or how much they are using. Also a moral issue. Government has no right to tell anyone what they can or can not put into their own bodies. I often thought how did the supreme court of the u.s. decide that women have a right to abortions ( i realize the current court has reversed this now) without saying drug laws are unconstitutional. They actually did say that federal drug laws were once and supposedly they were rewritten and now are but I don't see it. It took a constitutional amendment to ban alcohol and another to undo that. There was never any constitutional amendment banning cocaine or heroin or any other drug. If you can't see that making drugs legal and as safe as possible is a better way than wasted resources on a drug war that can't be won and is an immoral undertaking to begin with.....
 
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Ash

Ash

Enlightened
Oct 4, 2021
1,260
This whole thread reads like manifesto for a dictatorship.

I might be suicidal but I still value my vote and the slow, often infuriating process of democratic change.
 
L

LaughingGoat

Mage
Apr 11, 2024
598
Oxycodone or oxycontin is actually quite safe if used responsibly. Countries who have legalized drugs have seen great reduction in od deaths. Makes more sense. In your pro-criminal cartel view you think it's safer when people are getting fentanyl without being aware of it? When people never know exactly what or how much they are using. Also a moral issue. Government has no right to tell anyone what they can or can not put into their own bodies. I often thought how did the supreme court of the u.s. decide that women have a right to abortions ( i realize the current court has reversed this now) without saying drug laws are unconstitutional. They actually did say that federal drug laws were once and supposedly they were rewritten and now are but I don't see it. It took a constitutional amendment to ban alcohol and another to undo that. There was never any constitutional amendment banning cocaine or heroin or any other drug. If you can't see that making drugs legal and as safe as possible is a better way than wasted resources on a drug war that can't be won and is an immoral undertaking to begin with.....
"Pro-criminal cartel view", genuinely confused how you drew that out of what I said. Either way I'm struggling to understand the logical reasoning of what you're saying; on one hand you demand the government to make companies make safer versions of drugs and then on the other hand you want Fentanyl to be easily accessible. I believe in decriminalizing all drug charges for users since addicts need treatment, not to rot in prison; but I don't understand fighting for safety measures in pharmaceutical but then saying they should make fentanyl freely accessible.

You're just straw manning me by saying I'm arguing in favor of the war on drugs since I said Fentanyl shouldn't be legal (I didn't say it should be criminalized). At no point did I argue for that and I don't understand how it could've been taken that way.
 
DoubleUp8

DoubleUp8

Gambler
Dec 14, 2023
458
"Pro-criminal cartel view", genuinely confused how you drew that out of what I said. Either way I'm struggling to understand the logical reasoning of what you're saying; on one hand you demand the government to make companies make safer versions of drugs and then on the other hand you want Fentanyl to be easily accessible. I believe in decriminalizing all drug charges for users since addicts need treatment, not to rot in prison; but I don't understand fighting for safety measures in pharmaceutical but then saying they should make fentanyl freely accessible.

You're just straw manning me by saying I'm arguing in favor of the war on drugs since I said Fentanyl shouldn't be legal (I didn't say it should be criminalized). At no point did I argue for that and I don't understand how it could've been taken that way.
Either legal or illegal. Pharmaceutical companies already make safer versions of fentanyl in patches and lolipops that are impossible to inject and people rarely od die on these products. To say something shouldn't be legalized but should be decriminalized is fence sitting. Other countries have adopted some form of the model I suggest and have seen overdose deaths become almost non-existent. Under my rules accidental overdose deaths would be damn near impossible. Not to mention decreases in all the other negative things associated with drug use such as drug related crime and addiction overall. If the US would have adopted that model 40 years ago Tom Petty and Prince probably still with us cuz both died from taking fentanyl unknowingly. I personally wouldn't care if fentanyl was wiped off the face of the earth but if someone wants to use it, they should have that right. I am in severe chronic pain and got cut off my opiate medication amid the "opioid epidemic" hysteria. Opiates were put on the planet by God for the relief of suffering and only God has the right to tell anyone they can't use em. Current opiaphobic policy loses sight of the absolute fact that opiates are the best medicine mankind will ever have. There is a distinct difference between opiates and synthetic opioids in case you (like most people) think they are synonymous.
 
L

LaughingGoat

Mage
Apr 11, 2024
598
How many and what countries have made all drugs legal? Especially them being legal beyond just availability for substitution therapy as treatment is different from what you claimed is needed and I don't argue against. Please link sources.

How would your rules make accidental overdose deaths near impossible, you think addicts are satisfied with patches and lollipops?
 
DoubleUp8

DoubleUp8

Gambler
Dec 14, 2023
458
How many and what countries have made all drugs legal? Especially them being legal beyond just availability for substitution therapy as treatment is different from what you claimed is needed and I don't argue against. Please link sources.

How would your rules make accidental overdose deaths near impossible, you think addicts are satisfied with patches and lollipops?
Why are we making policy for addicts at the expense of the rest of us 1st off? And maybe no country has the perfect legalization but offhand I know that Switzerland, Portugal and Mexico have legalized drugs in 1 way or another. Most familiar with Mexico which abolished all of penalties for possession of any kind of drugs but has not much in the way of pharmaceutical alternatives tho I think they may now have weed dispensaries. Btw I have seen addicts happy as a pig in shit with fentanyl patches.
As for accidental od deaths being near impossible: if everyone knows exactly what substance and exactly how many milligrams they are using every time, the only od deaths would be intentional ctbs
Or a handful of reckless fools
 
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L

LaughingGoat

Mage
Apr 11, 2024
598
Why are we making policy for addicts at the expense of the rest of us 1st off? And maybe no country has the perfect legalization but offhand I know that Switzerland, Portugal and Mexico have legalized drugs in 1 way or another. Most familiar with Mexico which abolished all of penalties for possession of any kind of drugs but has not much in the way of pharmaceutical alternatives tho I think they may now have weed dispensaries. Btw I have seen addicts happy as a pig in shit with fentanyl patches.
As for accidental od deaths being near impossible: if everyone knows exactly what substance and exactly how many milligrams they are using every time, the only od deaths would be intentional ctbs
Or a handful of reckless fools
The example you go into detail of literally is decriminalization not making drugs legal. Portugal and Switzerland both decriminalized drug use. Switzerland has treatment, kind of like our methadone clinics here in the US except they actually give out heroin, morphine, etc. I'm in line with that, believe for addiction treatment it is very useful. None of those countries have all or even most drugs legal.

I spent years working with substance abusers, never met a functional heroin or fentanyl addict who continued and were satisfied with a "safe" amount forever. They increase their use more and more till it destroys their life. I think you're really underestimating how many overdoses happen to regular users.
 
DoubleUp8

DoubleUp8

Gambler
Dec 14, 2023
458
The example you go into detail of literally is decriminalization not making drugs legal. Portugal and Switzerland both decriminalized drug use. Switzerland has treatment, kind of like our methadone clinics here in the US except they actually give out heroin, morphine, etc. I'm in line with that, believe for addiction treatment it is very useful. None of those countries have all or even most drugs legal.

I spent years working with substance abusers, never met a functional heroin or fentanyl addict who continued and were satisfied with a "safe" amount forever. They increase their use more and more till it destroys their life. I think you're really underestimating how many overdoses happen to regular users.
Again why make policy for addicts at the expense of everyone else?
 
ijustwishtodie

ijustwishtodie

death will be my ultimate bliss
Oct 29, 2023
3,381
I think that society is mentally ill. There's nothing mentally okay about being willing to put your body and life down the line to be a slave for decades. There's also nothing mentally okay about wanting to suffer through couple of more additional years during old age. There's nothing mentally okay about wanting others to stay alive so that they can be a productive wagie and then also not caring about the suffering that they have to go through
 
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Tesha

Tesha

Life too shall pass
May 31, 2020
606
Again why make policy for addicts at the expense of everyone else?
I suspect there would be a massive increase in addicts if all drugs were legal. It would eventually become a problem for the majority - even if they weren't addicts themselves, the impact from the addicted population would be felt far and wide. Anyway, why shouldn't their vulnerability be taken into account? Addicts are just people who are suffering from an illness afterall.
 
ctbcat

ctbcat

Yes, the everlasting contrast.
Jul 14, 2023
221
i love how people believe i'm going to magic a will to live out of somewhere... find a purpose and latch onto it... don't you think i've already tried?

so fucking tired... not funny. any of it. i wish professionals would leave me alone - i'm only going to lie and withhold information from you, you do NOTHING for me. i waste your time and you waste mine. tick boxes, write down reports, see if i give a shit
 
DoubleUp8

DoubleUp8

Gambler
Dec 14, 2023
458
But it would actually be better for everyone. The countries who have enacted some sort of legalization have seen a decrease in addiction not an increase. If safest possible alternatives were available legally less addicts would od die.
I suspect there would be a massive increase in addicts if all drugs were legal. It would eventually become a problem for the majority - even if they weren't addicts themselves, the impact from the addicted population would be felt far and wide. Anyway, why shouldn't their vulnerability be taken into account? Addicts are just people who are suffering from an illness afterall.
Isn't it already a problem for the majority. It would be way less a problem for everyone. The evidence is available. There was no such thing as an illegal drug until the dawn of the 20th century and no federal law outlawing any drug until 1917. Most if not all of the negatives associated with illegal drugs are caused by their illegal status and not by the drugs themselves. And things that are caused by the drugs like od death would be greatly reduced because of safer pharmaceutical products and people knowing exactly what and how much they are using. A whole lotta fentanyl od deaths the user had no idea they were using fentanyl which is being used as an additive in all illegal drugs nowadays if not a complete misrepresentation. Like the example of Prince a great American musical genius thought he was taking a relatively harmless oxycodone drug that turned out to be a pure fentanyl lookalike
It is not innately criminal to use or sell drugs. That's the main point. It's a moral issue. The government has no right to say alcohol and tobacco ok but heroin cocaine not. Every person should have the right to decide what they will or will not put into their own bodies
 
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Little_Suzy

Little_Suzy

Amphibious
May 1, 2023
895
For the sake of argument, let's assume that medically assisted suicide becomes legal. There is always room for error in medicine, and no treatment has a guaranteed 100% success rate. Understand that not every "legal attempt" will be successful.

We cannot ignore the fact that drugs are highly addictive and destructive, which is why regulation is necessary. Criminals frequently use marijuana to lower their inhibitions before committing serious crimes. Unfortunately, marijuana use has more disadvantages than advantages.

There is a misunderstanding, because the government has never stopped people from committing suicide or using drugs. The government enforces laws and prosecutes those who violate them.
 
DoubleUp8

DoubleUp8

Gambler
Dec 14, 2023
458
I used to use alcohol b4 I did something illegal to calm my nerves. Marijuana would have made me too self-conscious and not the desired effect. And what do you call involuntary commitments and people being jailed for drug offenses if not at least trying to stop people?
For the sake of argument, let's assume that medically assisted suicide becomes legal. There is always room for error in medicine, and no treatment has a guaranteed 100% success rate. Understand that not every "legal attempt" will be successful.

We cannot ignore the fact that drugs are highly addictive and destructive, which is why regulation is necessary. Criminals frequently use marijuana to lower their inhibitions before committing serious crimes. Unfortunately, marijuana use has more disadvantages than advantages.

There is a misunderstanding, because the government has never stopped people from committing suicide or using drugs. The government enforces laws and prosecutes those who violate them.
 
L

LaughingGoat

Mage
Apr 11, 2024
598
Again why make policy for addicts at the expense of everyone else?
Again, your argument have no consistency. You want the government to force companies to make drugs safer, but then you want incredibly addictive and destructive drugs to be freely distributed by those same companies.
 
DoubleUp8

DoubleUp8

Gambler
Dec 14, 2023
458
Again, your argument have no consistency. You want the government to force companies to make drugs safer, but then you want incredibly addictive and destructive drugs to be freely distributed by those same companies.
I don't see why u say no consistency. People are going to use drugs regardless. I don't see how anyone can not understand that making safer legal alternatives available will result in far less od deaths and if done right will actually put the criminal cartels out the drug business.
We already allow incredibly addictive and destructive drugs to be sold legally called alcohol and tobacco. I can make a damn good argument that some illegal drugs are not as incredibly addictive and destructive as these.
So who's inconsistent here really?
My stance is not unique. Most people who identify as libertarian would agree with me
 
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L

LaughingGoat

Mage
Apr 11, 2024
598
I don't see why u say no consistency. People are going to use drugs regardless. I don't see how anyone can not understand that making safer legal alternatives available will result in far less od deaths and if done right will actually put the criminal cartels out the drug business.
We already allow incredibly addictive and destructive drugs to be sold legally called alcohol and tobacco. I can make a damn good argument that some illegal drugs are not as incredibly addictive and destructive as these.
So who's inconsistent here really?
My stance is not unique. Most people who identify as libertarian would agree with me
You think alcohol and tobacco is on the same level as fentanyl (that's the drug we continued talking about)? Also why are we still talking legality when I've proven to you that all the countries you keep were extoling actually used decriminalization, you just haven't acknowledged you were incorrect there.
 
DoubleUp8

DoubleUp8

Gambler
Dec 14, 2023
458
Decriminalization is legalization really. Just semantics
 

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