Discussion People don't (really) care about the suicidal, just the "act" of caring.

[TAW122]

I think many may already know this, but I have made this realization especially after the years of perusing reddit and just general experiences in life with people, especially when the topic of mental health comes up. More oftenly than not, when there is mental health awareness campaigns and stories, be it IRL, online, just in comments of the articles, social media, and more, it's just virtue signaling. People do this mainly to absolve themselves of guilt and to earn brownie points, to feel good about the "act" of caring.

If you look around some of the threads and posts on the SW subreddit especially ones that talk about a friend, sibling, or other person the poster knows that CTB'd, they oftenly make it about themselves, their feelings, and the guilt they feel. They didn't "really" care before said person CTB'd and tried to help (I know not all, but most people), then after CTB occurred, they start to scramble to care (even though they will forget about it and consider it as 'moving on'). Also, sometimes, they even blame the victim as well. The other subreddit, suicidebereavement is similar to that. Sure the people who post there are oftenly the survivors but still they make it about themselves and their feelings, and then the people there shower them with platitudes and comfort (nothing wrong with that), but there is never consideration for the deceased nor understanding, just shame and guilt-trips, judgment, and blaming the person who CTB'd. Perhaps if people genuinely cared about those people prior to CTB'ing and/or at least were more respectful and understanding, then those people might not have CTB'd to begin with! 20/20 hindsight though.

This isn't even limited to just suicides and CTB, but even after tragedies (mass shootings, homicides, natural disasters, and more), the survivors and people who were interviewed afterwards oftenly first distance themselves from the situation and then make up shitty excuses and saying inane shit just to sound good, make themselves feel not responsible, and what not (well for other deaths and tragedies, not necessarily CTB related), sure it's not explicitly their fault but the fact that they pretend to care and act like they are noble is just sickening and frustrating. A common response usually after these events (whether CTB or non-CTB) are often whether the survivors could have done something differently and pretending like they can change things, which isn't always true. Sometimes people already made up their minds and there is nothing that others say or do that will alter the suicidal's decision. However, most people are too ignorant and stubborn that they refuse to see it and ideally (and falsely) believe that they can make a difference or change the outcome.

I feel like one possible reason is they wrongfully associate someone's personal decision to CTB with their actions and believe that they can be a hero. So in short, this thread basically highlights how people are oftenly superficial, egotistical, and only like the feeling of helping, whether it makes things better or not, therefore, they are egotistical and selfish. They don't care whether the person gets better (or if they make the person suffer even more), but just their own selfish egos. Of course, not every single human being is like that, but the vast majority of people are. The irony is that when you try to expose them and prove their superficiality, they become defensive, angry, and hostile (along with dishonesty, denial, and double-down on the virtue signals).

 

[Mr2005]

Super cynical but true. People care more what other people think of them than they do about other people. It's a generalization admittedly, I couldn't give a shit. It's nice to be liked for the right reasons by people you actually like. The rest is all appearances and status

 

[Suicide_vampire]

You are talking about the people who need the validation that social media brings, the people who feel that x amount of likes or reposts justifies their existence.
I have only Instagram, and I don't post on it I only have to follow bands that I like.
There is a distinct correlation between the rise in social media usage and the rise in mental health referals.
When I was at school over 30 years ago there was no talk of mental health whereas nowadays it's rife in schools and a lot of it comes from social media and the added pressures it brings.
But you are totally right the majority of support is just virtue signaling.
The world was a better place before Facebook.

 

[WhyamIstillhere]

Yup, people only care when it makes them look good. I think everyone is guilty of this, it's just human nature.

 

[TAW122]

Super cynical but true. People care more what other people think of them than they do about other people. It's a generalization admittedly, I couldn't give a shit. It's nice to be liked for the right reasons by people you actually like. The rest is all appearances and status

Absolutely, and an IRL example was a few years ago, one of my roommates passed away (unknown whether he CTB'd or died from other causes), and the reactions are so fucking superficial. I had a few people who were acquaintances acted "super nice" to me and one even said "TAW122, if you ever need to talk, I'm here," when I sensed that she said it very nonchalantly (almost monotonous). There wasn't anything wrong with what she said, but rather the tone and context. Some were like "Yeah, it sucks.. Are you ok TAW122?" and while it could be seen as genuine concern, on the flipside, it is a bit presumptuous too. Then of course, after about 1-2 weeks, everyone has basically moved on and life goes on as if nothing happened at all (barring the roommate's immediate family where they are grieving and that is understandable and expected). So yes, in a sense, it is a very cynical outlook, but that is pretty much my experiences with how people acted after news of a tragedy (someone or some people dying whether it is CTB or not).

You are talking about the people who need the validation that social media brings, the people who feel that x amount of likes or reposts justifies their existence.
I have only Instagram, and I don't post on it I only have to follow bands that I like.
There is a distinct correlation between the rise in social media usage and the rise in mental health referals.
When I was at school over 30 years ago there was no talk of mental health whereas nowadays it's rife in schools and a lot of it comes from social media and the added pressures it brings.
But you are totally right the majority of support is just virtue signaling.
The world was a better place before Facebook.

Yeah it's almost like a double-edged sword. Sure, technology is nice and helps with getting things done in day to day life, but at the same time, it's alienating and also very detrimental in the long run for many reasons.

 

[oopswronglife]

Recognizing that most people care only about themselves and how they feel explains most problems in the world. Even others they claim to love like spouses and children are not other needful and living creatures they see as important to them and their behavior toward them is entirely about their own fulfillment and ego and appearances. Seeing the obvious and constant hypocrisy wherein they expect empathy, help, and respect, but never give it, wears one down. Even the old folks who are meant to be wise and learned and should have grown empathy by their latter years are mostly just selfish, egocentric children in worn out bodies and get even more cranky and selfish because living broken down and in pain really sucks. This reality is depressing, it sucks, it's unfair, but it's true. It's not cynical or negative or some other excuse to deny it or ignore it. It's proven constantly. Like you said it's not everyone, though I could excuse someone for thinking so if they weren't fortunate enough to ever know good people, but it's most. Ironically almost none of the people who act like this will admit it because that makes them feel bad and avoiding that is the entire point.

 

[ithappens]

Humans are living organisms, and in the end are going to be just as self-centered as any other living creature. In my humble opinion I think people that genuinely care for others are pretty rare. Most people just want to keep a good reputation so they follow whatever morality is popular at the time and place they live in.

And then of course I think some people lash out after a suicide because they are grieving and hurt. When humans are hurting they tend to lash out, and I guess denial and anger are parts of the process of grief (I could be wrong)? I like to try and keep an open and hopeful mind that in a lot of cases they don't blame their "loved one" in the end, but that they might while they're grieving because it just hurts too much for most people to reasonably handle. Death scares people. The death of someone close to you probably even more so.

 

[Jean4]

Good thing I only know this site, and this is my home. We care here. Maybe because we understand.

 

[reesespiecesaregood]

Good thing I only know this site, and this is my home. We care here. Maybe because we understand.

I can honestly say I've never felt more understood than I do on this site. It's unfortunate that it's under these circumstances, but still. Being on SS has made me so much more aware of how fake and disconnected real life is nowadays. Nobody wants to confront anything bad, and if they do, it's almost always just to put their two cents in and convince themselves of their own moral high ground. But it does no one any good. If anything, it only makes the hurting feel more alienated and alone. The BS is exhausting.

 

[Ardesevent]

It's even worse in companies and schools nowadays, they seem to just do the barest minimum. They don't confront it at all, but they do just enough so that people couldn't sue them.
Even when my old high school covered mental health a couple years ago, they basically told us that suicide was bad, and that we should call a hotline if we ever felt that way.
No talking about why people feel that way, or how to support someone who does, just that they should call a hotline.
The district that my high school was in had 3 suicides alone in the year prior, and that was all they would tell us about suicide.

 

[Otter]

I think many may already know this, but I have made this realization especially after the years of perusing reddit and just general experiences in life with people, especially when the topic of mental health comes up. More oftenly than not, when there is mental health awareness campaigns and stories, be it IRL, online, just in comments of the articles, social media, and more, it's just virtue signaling. People do this mainly to absolve themselves of guilt and to earn brownie points, to feel good about the "act" of caring.

If you look around some of the threads and posts on the SW subreddit especially ones that talk about a friend, sibling, or other person the poster knows that CTB'd, they oftenly make it about themselves, their feelings, and the guilt they feel. They didn't "really" care before said person CTB'd and tried to help (I know not all, but most people), then after CTB occurred, they start to scramble to care (even though they will forget about it and consider it as 'moving on'). Also, sometimes, they even blame the victim as well. The other subreddit, suicidebereavement is similar to that. Sure the people who post there are oftenly the survivors but still they make it about themselves and their feelings, and then the people there shower them with platitudes and comfort (nothing wrong with that), but there is never consideration for the deceased nor understanding, just shame and guilt-trips, judgment, and blaming the person who CTB'd. Perhaps if people genuinely cared about those people prior to CTB'ing and/or at least were more respectful and understanding, then those people might not have CTB'd to begin with! 20/20 hindsight though.

This isn't even limited to just suicides and CTB, but even after tragedies (mass shootings, homicides, natural disasters, and more), the survivors and people who were interviewed afterwards oftenly first distance themselves from the situation and then make up shitty excuses and saying inane shit just to sound good, make themselves feel not responsible, and what not (well for other deaths and tragedies, not necessarily CTB related), sure it's not explicitly their fault but the fact that they pretend to care and act like they are noble is just sickening and frustrating. A common response usually after these events (whether CTB or non-CTB) are often whether the survivors could have done something differently and pretending like they can change things, which isn't always true. Sometimes people already made up their minds and there is nothing that others say or do that will alter the suicidal's decision. However, most people are too ignorant and stubborn that they refuse to see it and ideally (and falsely) believe that they can make a difference or change the outcome.

I feel like one possible reason is they wrongfully associate someone's personal decision to CTB with their actions and believe that they can be a hero. So in short, this thread basically highlights how people are oftenly superficial, egotistical, and only like the feeling of helping, whether it makes things better or not, therefore, they are egotistical and selfish. They don't care whether the person gets better (or if they make the person suffer even more), but just their own selfish egos. Of course, not every single human being is like that, but the vast majority of people are. The irony is that when you try to expose them and prove their superficiality, they become defensive, angry, and hostile (along with dishonesty, denial, and double-down on the virtue signals).

Yep, straight up virtue signaling sheep!

 

[Moonomyth]

A common response usually after these events (whether CTB or non-CTB) are often whether the survivors could have done something differently and pretending like they can change things, which isn't always true. Sometimes people already made up their minds and there is nothing that others say or do that will alter the suicidal's decision. However, most people are too ignorant and stubborn that they refuse to see it and ideally (and falsely) believe that they can make a difference or change the outcome.

I think this is often a rhetorical question, because most people who ask this wouldn't really be able to handle hearing "Yes, you could have done something." Sure, some people are committed and there's nothing that could be done, but I think a lot of people who CTB because of their circumstances are often in that state specifically because of the actions of others. We wouldn't think it odd that if someone had CTB to escape an abusive family that this could have been prevented if they had been removed from the abuse or the family had been able to stop it, and that's likewise the case with the "deaths of despair" we see today - improve someone's financial circumstances and give them a sense they're going to be able to do better for themselves and you'd see far less addiction and suicide.

None of this is to say I disagree with you, because again, people asking this question don't want to hear that they could have done something different. I've also looked at the suicidebereveavement subreddit and it's struck me how at least a few of the people posting about their grief are the direct cause of somebody choosing to CTB. Maybe the person was abused, or rejected by their family when they came out as trans, or betrayed in a way they couldn't handle; whatever the case, the poster will edit the narrative to make them look innocent and bereaved, and the replies will be there to suddenly espouse the kind of existentialism that the suicidal wished they'd use in SW, saying "No, it's not your fault, of course it's not. Only they could make that choice for themselves in the end."

 

[Suicide_vampire]

It disturbs me how suicide especially when it's someone famous brings out all the fake comments.
People boosting their social media followings and like by posting messages of sadness and loss.
I think it just shows how superficial we have become as a species. While some comments might be genuine, the majority are just attention whores seeking validation of their own miserable lives.
Just my opinion.

 

[TAW122]

I think this is often a rhetorical question, because most people who ask this wouldn't really be able to handle hearing "Yes, you could have done something." Sure, some people are committed and there's nothing that could be done, but I think a lot of people who CTB because of their circumstances are often in that state specifically because of the actions of others. We wouldn't think it odd that if someone had CTB to escape an abusive family that this could have been prevented if they had been removed from the abuse or the family had been able to stop it, and that's likewise the case with the "deaths of despair" we see today - improve someone's financial circumstances and give them a sense they're going to be able to do better for themselves and you'd see far less addiction and suicide.

None of this is to say I disagree with you, because again, people asking this question don't want to hear that they could have done something different. I've also looked at the suicidebereveavement subreddit and it's struck me how at least a few of the people posting about their grief are the direct cause of somebody choosing to CTB. Maybe the person was abused, or rejected by their family when they came out as trans, or betrayed in a way they couldn't handle; whatever the case, the poster will edit the narrative to make them look innocent and bereaved, and the replies will be there to suddenly espouse the kind of existentialism that the suicidal wished they'd use in SW, saying "No, it's not your fault, of course it's not. Only they could make that choice for themselves in the end."

Well said and interesting perspective that more often than not, it's the bereaved who are the "cause" for the suicidal actually CTB'ing. In that case, it only makes the bereaved guilty of causing the death (simply by their treatment, judgment, and actions towards that person).

It disturbs me how suicide especially when it's someone famous brings out all the fake comments.
People boosting their social media followings and like by posting messages of sadness and loss.
I think it just shows how superficial we have become as a species. While some comments might be genuine, the majority are just attention whores seeking validation of their own miserable lives.
Just my opinion.

Very true, and the irony is that despite how everyone claims that they are 'genuine' it's easy and cheap to make that claim, but their actions will speak otherwise. I don't claim that I am guilty or non-guilty of it, but in my opinion if they don't really care about it, then it's better to just remain silent, refrain from posting (virtue signaling).

 

[BabyYoda]

It seems that people are aware that "toxic positivity" is very ineffective, but they managed to sneak it in somehow and tried to justify it. Like I see these posts on social media that are guilt-tripping and shaming those who can't love themselves. I hate it when people have the guts to call you out for not loving yourself enough but tolerate cutting ties with people for stupid reasons. Nobody seems to really care on how to truly understand someone who is suffering and they just leave the person to do everything themselves. Yes, self-love is good but don't jam it down people's throats when they aren't ready and most of all DON'T USE IT AS AN EXCUSE TO TREAT THE OTHER PERSON LIKE SHIT, because "well, since that person loves themselves, they don't need anybody". People don't seem to realize that a balance of BOTH self-love and external love are essential to any human being.

 

[TAW122]

It seems that people are aware that "toxic positivity" is very ineffective, but they managed to sneak it in somehow and tried to justify it. Like I see these posts on social media that are guilt-tripping and shaming those who can't love themselves. I hate it when people have the guts to call you out for not loving yourself enough but tolerate cutting ties with people for stupid reasons. Nobody seems to really care on how to truly understand someone who is suffering and they just leave the person to do everything themselves. Yes, self-love is good but don't jam it down people's throats when they aren't ready and most of all DON'T USE IT AS AN EXCUSE TO TREAT THE OTHER PERSON LIKE SHIT, because "well, since that person loves themselves, they don't need anybody". People don't seem to realize that a balance of BOTH self-love and external love are essential to any human being.

Yes that is very true and agreed. Before I was really aware of the hidden agenda that people have (like when I was a kid many years ago or even in high school), I was naive and blind towards the ugliness of human nature. As a result, of critical thinking and self introspect over the years, especially in my 20's, I've grown to become misanthropic towards humans in general. I also created many walls for myself IRL because I couldn't trust people IRL not to be shitty or to use me for their own benefits.

 

[ohhgeeitsme]

This is one thing that bothers me the most of people who have lost someone to suicide. They almost always make it more about themselves. How someone else's pain makes them feel. A lot of posthumous guilt tripping. They rarely even acknowledge the amount of pain their loved ones must have been going through. So much pain that they MURDERED themselves. It's weird because you often hear about how selfish suicide is when their response is just as selfish, if not more sometimes. They really would want their loved ones to suffer, unbearably, the rest of their lives just so they are not personally inconvenienced. Then you have all the people who exaggerate their friendships or closeness. Apparently, when you die, you gain A LOT of deep and meaningful friendships and relationships. Yes, losing someone to suicide is HARD but unless their suicide makes you feel so agonizingly hopeless that you also kill yourself, then the amount of pain you are feeling is nowhere near as bad as just a day in their shoes.

 

[FreedomInDeath]

I honestly do not believe this. I guess because it is an overgeneralization that "nobody" cares about the suicidal. I agree with the fact that many do not. But lets be honest we have selfish and cynical views in our state of mind as well. Both sides are selfish, no getting around that. No one can ever really know someones true emotions whether they think they do or not.

 

[ohhgeeitsme]

I honestly do not believe this. I guess because it is an overgeneralization that "nobody" cares about the suicidal. I agree with the fact that many do not. But lets be honest we have selfish and cynical views in our state of mind as well. Both sides are selfish, no getting around that. No one can ever really know someones true emotions whether they think they do or not.

They said they know it's not everyone, but many.

 

[LMLN]

I think people do care. But they do not understand and so their techniques for helping are misguided and unhelpful. I can say this because I was there at one time not long ago. Now that I am suicidal, I understand in a new way.

 

[ghostspace]

I think that judging whether or not a person's feelings about a suicide are genuine isn't really our place. It's not fair to make a general statement, especially including people who have had friends and family members commit suicide, because that puts them in a higher risk group for CTB, and also because a lot of the time, they tried to do whatever they could, they cared very much, it's just that sometimes people who are suicidal are not in a headspace to be receptive and people who care are not trained mental health professionals. They're afraid to say the wrong thing, they're afraid of someone they love dying. People are allowed to feel the emotions they feel, everyone's feelings are valid.

I don't disagree with everything said here, but I want people to remember that caring people do exist outside this forum, I'm deeply sorry there's a lack of people like that in your lives.

If one of my siblings committed suicide, I'd be so fucking heartbroken, I'd never feel right again. And if someone told me I was making it about myself or that I didn't actually care when they were alive, I'd be absolutely gutted, it's like kicking someone when they're down, even if they are ignorant or uncaring. Caring about someone is not enough to keep them here sometimes, sometimes they're so depressed that they can't feel that anyone cares even though people do. Some people kill themselves with no warning, with no history of treatment, and after someone has died, their death IS about the people they've left on earth. A death of a loved one is something that happens to you, it's a horrific life experience and everyone will experience it at some point.

 

[lovemelovemenot]

Completely agree. This is why I hate when people who off themselves are viewed as selfish. Every single person in this world is selfish in some way. I think that's just the way people are inherently. But you deicide you want to end your life and all the sudden you're a monster? I'm sure all of us here can name a time someone hurt you because they were acting in a selfish way. You might even deal with the pain of that persons actions till this day.

And when it comes to people like us, very rarely do people actually care about how we feel. They care about how it would impact them. Yes they might love you and want you around, but ultimately in their head the pain they would experience is more significant than yours has ever been or will ever be. Have you ever told someone about your suicidal thoughts and they say something like, "Do you know how I would feel if you did that?!" It's such a self-centered attitude and the wrong way to go about talking to someone in that state of mind.

Now, I don't expect people to just be okay with someone committing suicide, and I understand loosing someone is a painful experience to go through. But I just wish people would be more considerate of what that person was going through to make them want to ctb in the first place. It might even help them make peace with their passing.

 

[FreedomInDeath]

They said they know it's not everyone, but many.

Yeah I want to retract what I said. I was in a hoping for the best of people state of mind. It would be kinder for everyone to support others in their time of CTB, when they are 100% sure.

 

[TAW122]

I think people do care. But they do not understand and so their techniques for helping are misguided and unhelpful. I can say this because I was there at one time not long ago. Now that I am suicidal, I understand in a new way.

I think is the sad reality in a good many cases and ironically, their 'intervention' or attempts at intervention only complicates and make things worse most of the time. I think it would have been easier if people were 'honest' about their intentions, respected the suicidal's decision instead of questioning or challenging them, instead of trying to force some change that doesn't agree with the status quo. Sadly, most people just "don't get it" and want to "force their view and values down our throats," hence we have this ongoing problem of pro-lifers, forced-lifers, and anti-choice people (vast majority of society itself).

 

[selfhater]

i thought about this too, sadly all ppl around me literally like that no matter how i explain it to them it's act of selfish, it really pisses me off