People are pro-choice until its not a fetus.

[suicidestyle]

I shouldve worded that better, but the thing is, whats so different between abortion and suicide? Im for abortion (pro-choice) because its the mothers body and yeah, im antinatalist anyway so im against life, but why are people against SUICIDE? Isnt it culturally induced to have negative thoughts against suicide, its literally just part of peoples values,its technically just abortion for yourself....i dont get why its deemed a negative thing, if its the persons personal choice..

 

[WhiteRabbit]

I think there's a big difference in peoples emotions when it comes to a barely developed fetus and an adult. Most adults have connections with others, family, friends, etc.

A lot of it just comes down to the fact that non-suicidal people can't wrap their heads around someone truly wanting to die. They think every suicidal person who isn't terminally ill just needs help, and everyone can be fixed.

 

[Wolf Girl]

Hot takes like this are why they think we're not mentally competent to decide to end our lives.

 

[fallenforjune]

From the perspective of abortion - people see it as you making a choice for something that hasn't had a chance at life yet. Suicide is someone who had a chance at life and decided to take that route because this world isn't for them. It's extremely different.

People are against suicide because they (usually) haven't been in a situation where they feel that's their only option. They were in a bad place and things got better for them, so they believe that is a universal rule that applies to everyone.

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

I think there's a big difference in peoples emotions when it comes to a barely developed fetus and an adult. Most adults have connections with others, family, friends, etc.

A lot of it just comes down to the fact that non-suicidal people can't wrap their heads around someone truly wanting to die. They think every suicidal person who isn't terminally ill just needs help, and everyone can be fixed.

Spot on.

 

[FuneralCry]

I understand, personally it feels so cruel how there's no acceptance towards the wish to not exist, I'd never wish to suffer in this painful, torturous existence, I just want peace instead. To me existing will always be deeply undesirable and it brings me so much pain how I cannot have a death like never waking again to permanently escape from all the suffering.

 

[suicidestyle]

Hot takes like this are why they think we're not mentally competent to decide to end our lives.

I dont understand if this is insulting me or whatever hehe sorry im bad at understanding what people mean

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I completely agree. It's so baffling that people keep on saying the mantra "my body, my choice" as an argument for abortion but simultaneously don't apply that same mantra to when somebody wants to kill themselves. I think that wanting our own death should be our own choice to make. Unfortunately, you can't expect society to be consistent. Society uses a lot of cognitive dissonance when trying to argue against suicide and this is one of them

 

[suicidestyle]

I completely agree. It's so baffling that people keep on saying the mantra "my body, my choice" as an argument for abortion but simultaneously don't apply that same mantra to when somebody wants to kill themselves. I think that wanting our own death should be our own choice to make. Unfortunately, you can't expect society to be consistent. Society uses a lot of cognitive dissonance when trying to argue against suicide and this is one of them

Right! Death is clearly the only place anyone can get peace, its the only escape, i don't get why its so hard for some people to grasp that. I ask people why they feel so scared of death, and to my expectations, no answer. The scariest part about death is probably having to relive your entire life for 7 minutes haha. But after all death is just like how it was before you were born.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Right! Death is clearly the only place anyone can get peace, its the only escape, i don't get why its so hard for some people to grasp that. I ask people why they feel so scared of death, and to my expectations, no answer. The scariest part about death is probably having to relive your entire life for 7 minutes haha. But after all death is just like how it was before you were born.

Yes, exactly! I also see death as the only way to get peace and not to mention that it's eternal peace. I feel like people don't even bother thinking as to why they are scared of death but I got a few theories of my own. Firstly, there's a high chance that they had to deal with grief from seeing a family member die and that grief is clouding their judgement of death. Secondly, a lot of people have the fear of the unknown and, since nobody fully knows what death is like, people are scared. Right now, science seems to lead into concluding that death is just permanent non existence but most people are scared of that as they lack the ability to comprehend what permanent non existence is like.

I'm not scared of death nor will I ever be. What I am scared of, however, is dying as the only suicide methods that I can access are the brutal ones which means I'll be going through a lot of pain just to be dead

 

[astr4]

people are hypocrites that's why. it's all "my body my choice" unless the choice is to end your life.

 

[Darkover]

• Abortion is often seen as a choice about whether to bring another life into the world. Many who are pro-choice believe that the pregnant person should have the right to decide, as it directly affects their life, health, and future. The choice is also seen as preventing a life from beginning, not ending one that has already experienced existence and suffering.
• Suicide, on the other hand, is seen as the ending of an existing life, which society often views as inherently valuable. The negative stigma around suicide could be culturally induced, as you mentioned, but it also stems from the idea that life is worth preserving, even when the individual feels otherwise. Many cultures and belief systems view life as sacred, which makes the voluntary ending of it deeply unsettling for a lot of people. Additionally, people often see suicide as a result of mental illness or extreme distress, something that should be treated rather than acted upon.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Okay regardless of what people can intuitively understand or not and regardless of prevailing stigma that doesn't change the fact that there is a logical inconsistency regardless of what your beliefs on abortion are if you are completely against suicide.

If you are vehemently opposed to abortion and suicide that makes no sense. Why do you oppose abortion (leaving aside religious arguments)? Because you want those developing humans to have a chance at good experiences and in short, a happy life. So what if people are who forced here have lives that they experience as net negatives, maybe because of congenital problems (*cough autism *cough*)? And you want babies to be born to have a positive go of life but if it ends up being the complete opposite, then they must not or are horrible people to try to relive themselves of it?

On the other hand, if you passionately support the ability to choose abortion but not suicide, that makes no sense. Why do you support the ability to terminate a nascent human life? Because you deem the mother's autonomy to be paramount. So the mother can act in her self-interest and terminate her developing child's life but people can't act in their self-interest and terminate their own miserable lives! (This same principle also shows the inconsistency of supporting the right to kill in self-defense but not suicide.)

Hypocrisy all around. And the fact that it is a key issue as far as the U.S. election highlights that even more for me.

 

[bandoscii]

On the other hand, if you passionately support the ability to choose abortion but not suicide, that makes no sense. Why do you support the ability to terminate a nascent human life? Because you deem the mother's autonomy to be paramount. So the mother can act in her self-interest and terminate her developing child's life but people can't act in their self-interest and terminate their own miserable lives! (This same principle also shows the inconsistency of supporting the right to kill in self-defense but not suicide.)

Exactly! Such hypocrisy.

 

[uglyugly]

Yeah, I've never understood it, either. Ultimately, I think everyone should have bodily autonomy and they alone should make a choice how to live their lives or end them. What do these people who "save" a life from suicide think they are gaining? A gold star? One of the things that bothers me the most is I doubt VERY few people who decide to end their lives have done so on a whim. It's not an easy decision at all. I've been agonizing it over for about 4-5 years now. But yet some moron who has never walked my road or the roads of people on here is spewing how great life is and how important it is and how we simply must stop people from suicide. It infuriates me. Let's change places for a week or so and then see what they say.

On another note, I think religion plays a major roll in the anti-suicide rhetoric just like in the anti-abortion rhetoric. I am not a a fan of religion at all (not trying to insult anyone's beliefs at all, of course) because it is so damn controlling. I don't think anything good has ever come out of organized religion, not to be confused with a spiritual connection to a higher being, if one exists.

 

[willitpass]

Because it's easier to let go of a life that hasn't even begun, might not even have a name or known sex get, hasn't built relationships and memories with people, hit milestones and had tough times a good times, etc than someone who has lived a life. Human beings build connections with each other. We bond. We laugh. We eat together. Sleep together. Build lives together. And memories are heavily tied into the emotional centers of our brain. Memories get processed in the same place emotions are built. So when you know someone, you have emotions tied to them. And when you have emotions tied to someone it's a hell of a lot harder to be willing to let them go. While it sounds like it would be contradictory to be pro-choice for abortion but not suicide, basic human psychology will easily explain why it's not so simple.

 

[Reflection]

It's hypocritical. It's the mother's autonomy to kill the fetus if she wants and no one can do anyhting about it, it's the partner's autonomy to leave if they wish and no one can do anything about it, but once a person wants to end their pain every single argument they make for the other stuff goes right out of the window.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Because it's easier to let go of a life that hasn't even begun, might not even have a name or known sex get, hasn't built relationships and memories with people, hit milestones and had tough times a good times, etc than someone who has lived a life. Human beings build connections with each other. We bond. We laugh. We eat together. Sleep together. Build lives together. And memories are heavily tied into the emotional centers of our brain. Memories get processed in the same place emotions are built. So when you know someone, you have emotions tied to them. And when you have emotions tied to someone it's a hell of a lot harder to be willing to let them go. While it sounds like it would be contradictory to be pro-choice for abortion but not suicide, basic human psychology will easily explain why it's not so simple.

But remove the emotion and it remains a logical and ethical inconsistency.

Of course in practice there really is no removing emotion. But if we are just talking sheer philosophy, then it doesn't make sense.

 

[willitpass]

But remove the emotion and it remains a logical and ethical inconsistency.

Of course in practice there really is no removing emotion. But if we are just talking sheer philosophy, then it doesn't make sense.

Logically yes it is inconsistent, but death is always deeply enmeshed in emotion. There isn't going to be any separating death and emotion in the majority of people.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Logically yes it is inconsistent, but death is always deeply enmeshed in emotion. There isn't going to be any separating death and emotion in the majority of people.

We can still call it out. Especially if real policies that affect people's real lives are in question.

 

[willitpass]

We can still call it out. Especially if real policies that affect people's real lives are in question.

Yes but if the idea is to ultimately get people to acknowledge the right to die you have to acknowledge the emotion tied into letting people who have a well lived life die. If progress is ever going to be made in that field we can't ignore the highly emotional aspect of suicide vs abortion. It's what is and has been vs what could have been.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Yes but if the idea is to ultimately get people to acknowledge the right to die you have to acknowledge the emotion tied into letting people who have a well lived life die. If progress is ever going to be made in that field we can't ignore the highly emotional aspect of suicide vs abortion. It's what is and has been vs what could have been.

And what has been fucking sucks elephant balls. Which is why it applies to the anti abortion camp as well. Even more so for the anti since they don't want the developing humans to miss out on a happy life but when it doesn't end up that way they'll insist they have to stay here in a life the complete opposite of what they said life would be. Stupid.