Venting People are ok with homeless, but not suicide.

[TAW122]

I've saw this thread on reddit that talks about how people (most people in society) are ok with those who became homeless. (Just fyi, I'm not ripping on all homeless people nor am I stating that all homeless people are suicidal; there are some homeless that strive to survive and live, and of those, there are a few that don't quite make it (died of natural causes, elements, violence, other causes, etc.).) With that said, my spiel and rant is partly inspired by this reddit post. The author made a good post (see below):

Honestly, this is one of the most puzzling things about society. People tell you that "we don't live in a vaccum. everyone has people who care" along with other shamings of suicide calling you "cowardly".

But when you want to live...oh no. You're entitled to nothing. If you don't do well in school your parents kick you out and you end up homeless liviing on a cardboard box.

But remember, don't kill yourself because "people care about you so much"

I understand having to work to participate in society but I find it so stupid that people can't see the incongruity. I can't honestly imagine telling a homeless person freezing in the cold "keep struggling because life is worth it". If they want to die, then let them die and vice versa.

I too, find it incongruous, inconsistent, and even hypocritical that society and it's people are absolutely fine with allowing homeless people to die (either by starvation, elements, violence, other causes, etc.), yet at the same time telling other homeless people not to CTB. To people, they don't see the homeless as other human beings but rather invisible at best, and a nuisance at worst. I once had a convo with someone IRL regarding the homeless people, and said person IRL said well it's their fault for being homeless (hint: It was a religious pro-lifer, of course, no surprise there! ) and that they 'chose' to be homeless.

So with that said, my point that I'm making is: People don't care about others dying, but rather HOW they die. So, logically speaking, it ultimately boils down to ego, feelings, emotions. If someone died in some other cause (accident, violence, disease, illnesses, etc.), especially someone they don't know, according to them, it's just too bad, sucks to suck. If it is someone they know, they would feel bad, but get over it somewhat quickly (not everyone but most afaik). Of course, they don't announce it, but I can sense it by their attitudes towards them.

Here is a diagram that I made (excuse my shitty MS paint skills) showing how people respond to death.

(State machine diagram illustrating birth to death and the causes of death)


Therefore, in conclusion, when someone dies from natural causes, anything BUT CTB/suicide, people are more or less ok with it (to some degree, maybe some sadness but quickly move on). But if it is suicide, society somehow gets a shit fit and suddenly acts very offended. Objectively speaking, someone choosing to CTB doesn't objectively affect the people around them, only subjectively and emotionally. However, no one should dictate how and whether that person should or shouldn't CTB, that's for the individual to decide.

 

[Oyoy]

I can't believe how homeless sent more suicidal.

 

[Broken Chimera]

The only reason people care if others ctb is because that means it's one less person they can feel superior to. If you're in a bad spot most people take comfort in seeing you down until you ctb. By doing that you're ruining their game and basically putting up a middle finger to everyone who found pleasure in your pain. That's how I see it anyway.

But if you die by something else, they really don't care. They'll cry for brownie points and probably make a gofundme page but in about a week they'll be OK and only bring up the death for sympathy.

There's one thing I want to hit on and that's the fundamentalist christians. They say things like what that woman said in the OP. They remind me of members of the Westboro Baptist Church. I don't understand how people who believe in Jesus could have that much hate. And how unconscious they are to the hate they spew. Who chooses to be homeless? Maybe drug addicts. But some people went into debt, some families homes got destroyed. How can any Christian who's sane find pleasure in someone's pain? And where was your Jesus to help them?

 

[Brick In The Wall]

Straight up I respect your work. But just off the title I'd CTB before homelessness. So would so many others.

 

[Quarky00]

But just off the title I'd CTB before homelessness.

I second that lol

 

[TAW122]

@Broken Chimera Great post and I think you are spot on with it. People like to feel like they are "better" than others.

By doing that you're ruining their game and basically putting up a middle finger to everyone who found pleasure in your pain. That's how I see it anyway.

Also, yes good analogy and makes sense.

@Brick In The Wall and @Quarky00 thanks for your support.

 

[Quarky00]

@thrw_a_way1221221 , was just passing by -- saved your analysis to read thoroughly later, as it deserves

 

[purplemoon]

I've saw this thread on reddit that talks about how people (most people in society) are ok with those who became homeless. (Just fyi, I'm not ripping on all homeless people nor am I stating that all homeless people are suicidal; there are some homeless that strive to survive and live, and of those, there are a few that don't quite make it (died of natural causes, elements, violence, other causes, etc.).) With that said, my spiel and rant is partly inspired by this reddit post. The author made a good post (see below):



I too, find it incongruous, inconsistent, and even hypocritical that society and it's people are absolutely fine with allowing homeless people to die (either by starvation, elements, violence, other causes, etc.), yet at the same time telling other homeless people not to CTB. To people, they don't see the homeless as other human beings but rather invisible at best, and a nuisance at worst. I once had a convo with someone IRL regarding the homeless people, and said person IRL said well it's their fault for being homeless (hint: It was a religious pro-lifer, of course, no surprise there! ) and that they 'chose' to be homeless.

So with that said, my point that I'm making is: People don't care about others dying, but rather HOW they die. So, logically speaking, it ultimately boils down to ego, feelings, emotions. If someone died in some other cause (accident, violence, disease, illnesses, etc.), especially someone they don't know, according to them, it's just too bad, sucks to suck. If it is someone they know, they would feel bad, but get over it somewhat quickly (not everyone but most afaik). Of course, they don't announce it, but I can sense it by their attitudes towards them.

Here is a diagram that I made (excuse my shitty MS paint skills) showing how people respond to death.

(State machine diagram illustrating birth to death and the causes of death)
View attachment 26389

Therefore, in conclusion, when someone dies from natural causes, anything BUT CTB/suicide, people are more or less ok with it (to some degree, maybe some sadness but quickly move on). But if it is suicide, society somehow gets a shit fit and suddenly acts very offended. Objectively speaking, someone choosing to CTB doesn't objectively affect the people around them, only subjectively and emotionally. However, no one should dictate how and whether that person should or shouldn't CTB, that's for the individual to decide.

You have the best point...

"People don't care about others dying, but rather HOW they die. So, logically speaking, it ultimately boils down to ego, feelings, emotions."

as i mentioned in my previous thread...

OUR LIFE = OUR CHOICE

Your thread is very inspirational to discuss people's rights and feelings as you all sharing such wise and strong points, thank you.

 

[Heart of Ice]

I've saw this thread on reddit that talks about how people (most people in society) are ok with those who became homeless.

(Most) people don't really care.

 

[Mizzmini45]

(Most) people don't really care.

Until it's them

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Good post and point well made. I've noted this myself. People are okay with others suffering but not okay with suicide.
It's anachronistic.
Wouldn't we all stop suffering if we could? Stop suicide? Great! Then help deal with what caused those feelings in the first place!
But no... chemical thought reprogramming and the suffering continues.
I posted this elsewhere tonight. There's an old saying...
If you save someone's life, you then become responsible for that person.

 

[TAW122]

@Heart of Ice and @Mizzmini45 you both are correct and yes, most people seem to want to bandwagon and virtue signal, without regard to the actual person suffering. They care about the 'act and signal of caring' rather than whether it is beneficial to the said person. Then they put the onus (burden and responsibility) of getting better towards that person while doing just about fuck all to help that person. In fact, by intervening they only exacerbate the situation, but of course you will (almost) never hear anyone talk about the harms done by forced intervention, treatment, and preventing suicide.

If you save someone's life, you then become responsible for that person.

Agreed, but sadly in today's society, those who impose their will and/or intervene oftenly don't have to deal with the consequences afterwards (imho they should as they are the "cause" for intervention to occur in the first place!). At the very least, especially for forced intervention, treatment, and imprisonment (psych ward, er, hospital, temp holds), the patient should not have to pay a dime on his/her treatment that he/she is coerced into, or never "agreed" to. It's disgusting how the legal system and society sanctions this practice and is ok with it.