Pegasos

[deedee0225]

Please share if yourself or anybody you know has been admitted by Pegasos. Given the vagueness of the approval process for assisted dying organizations, it helps to be able to reference past cases.

I think generally speaking the applicant cohort can be classified into six groups, as below. There is no precise definition of what a "young", "older", or "senior" patient is, but just as an image for our discussion purpose, young means under 40, older means 40-60, and senior means 60+.

1. Young patient with mental illness only
2. Young patient with physical illness
3. Older patient with mental illness only
4. Older patient with physical illness
5. Senior patient without mental or physical illness. Simply suffering from effects of old age.
6. Senior patient with illness of some form, whether physical or mental.

At this point, we know that 5 and 6 have the highest probability of approval (pretty much almost certainty) and is not very interesting for our purpose of discussion here. 4 is also very likely for approval. When it gets down to 3, this is where it becomes more debatable and interesting. At present Pegasos seems to be taking 3 on a case-by-case basis. 2 is also debatable. I have so far not heard or seen any cases of 2 yet. The question is what constitutes acceptable physical illness, and for how long the applicant must be suffering from it. Finally 1 is least likely and there doesn't seem to be any progress yet. Correct me if I am wrong however.

 

[Living sucks]

A user here recently was a #2 case. And was accepted fairly quickly. They are no longer posting here but you can research their posts and what they disclosed about the process by user name @AcornUnderground

 

[deedee0225]

Also for those of you who were approved by Pegasos, how long did it take? Any phone calls/meetings before being approved?

 

[nerve]

@Berlin76 went to the End of Life Clinic in the Netherlands & documented their experiences really thoroughly.

 

[deedee0225]

I plan on applying to Pegasos next week, and will provide update in case I get a green light. I have e-mailed them in the past describing my circumstances and was told I can apply (though of course this is no guarantee for an approval)
I'm turning 30 this year, suffer from chronic prostatitis (have formal diagnosis from doctor). Tried every treatment under the sun with no relief. Though it's not a life-threatening illness, the pain and quality of life impairment is severe. Hoping Pegasos can look at not just my young age but have compassion that illness/pain does not discriminate based on age.

 

[Incorrigible77777]

I'm actually wondering if there was ANY #1 case EVER approved in any of the Swiss institutions e.g. Pegasos, Lifecircle, Dignitas, and what if this person has severe incurable major depression. The only #1 case I know in worldwide scope and throughout the history is Aurelia from Netherlands, but unfortunately Dutch institutions don't seem to accept foreigners.

 

[deedee0225]

Not that I know of. The mission statement of Pegasos states: "Pegasos believes that it is the human right of every rational adult of sound mind, regardless of state of health, to choose the manner and timing of their death." It seems the depressed/mentally ill are already being excluded from the mission statement altogether.

 

[Susan Caswell]

Please share if yourself or anybody you know has been admitted by Pegasos. Given the vagueness of the approval process for assisted dying organizations, it helps to be able to reference past cases.

I think generally speaking the applicant cohort can be classified into six groups, as below. There is no precise definition of what a "young", "older", or "senior" patient is, but just as an image for our discussion purpose, young means under 40, older means 40-60, and senior means 60+.

1. Young patient with mental illness only
2. Young patient with physical illness
3. Older patient with mental illness only
4. Older patient with physical illness
5. Senior patient without mental or physical illness. Simply suffering from effects of old age.
6. Senior patient with illness of some form, whether physical or mental.

At this point, we know that 5 and 6 have the highest probability of approval (pretty much almost certainty) and is not very interesting for our purpose of discussion here. 4 is also very likely for approval. When it gets down to 3, this is where it becomes more debatable and interesting. At present Pegasos seems to be taking 3 on a case-by-case basis. 2 is also debatable. I have so far not heard or seen any cases of 2 yet. The question is what constitutes acceptable physical illness, and for how long the applicant must be suffering from it. Finally 1 is least likely and there doesn't seem to be any progress yet. Correct me if I am wrong however.

Yes a friend went 3 weeks ago and was fit and well but about 75 yrs old and simply wanted to go. I want to go too due to deafening tinntus application is half done but i dont know how to upload documents and no one will help me

 

[deedee0225]

Thanks for sharing Susan, let me PM you

 

[Despo41]

I want to go - I have ME/cfs but I literally have just one recent letter outlining my illness.
It was diagnosed years ago but I do not have the diagnoses letter.
How much paperwork do they need? Surely they won't accept with just one letter?

 

[SummerDreamer]

I have been corresponding with them and if you are young even with a condition it would be difficult to get approval to be honest. They told me I would need approval of BOTH parents (only my dad would agree to it) and one of them would need to come with you. I have neurological issues (tinnitus, hyperacusis, visual snow) which is difficult to get diagnosis for though, so maybe it would be easier if you have an illness you can get an official diagnosis for. I have also only recently acquired these issues, so maybe you would have more luck if you've been suffering from the condition for a lot longer.

 

[Despo41]

I think it's the lack of paperwork that would hinder my approval too.
I think you have to show that you have tried absolutely everything to help. The only thing they can offer someone like me is CBT!

 

[deedee0225]

I have been corresponding with them and if you are young even with a condition it would be difficult to get approval to be honest. They told me I would need approval of BOTH parents (only my dad would agree to it) and one of them would need to come with you. I have neurological issues (tinnitus, hyperacusis, visual snow) which is difficult to get diagnosis for though, so maybe it would be easier if you have an illness you can get an official diagnosis for. I have also only recently acquired these issues, so maybe you would have more luck if you've been suffering from the condition for a lot longer.

Wow they need parents now?? That's the first time I've heard. Did you tell them that you are a dependent, is that why? We're all adults here (anyone over the legal age is, period. Whether that's 18 in some countries or 20 or 21). I mean what is the cut-off here, do 30 or 35 year olds still need their parents' approval? What if someone young is estranged with their parents? I mean it sounds pretty silly to me...But thank you SummerDreamer for the information that's a new one.

 

[SummerDreamer]

@deedee0225 I never mentioned my parents in the email. So it seems like you need some sort of approval for young age, though they really don't make clear at what age this cutoff is. It's all too vague IMO! They make it sound like anyone can get VAD approval, until you contact them about specifics :(

 

[MyChoiceToLeave]

I would just barely fall under #3. I want to ctb safely as a 40th birthday present to myself. I still don't understand how they are identifying people as mentally ill when all mental illnesses are subjective. There is no objective test for a chemical imbalance. There has to be a simple, boilerplate answer that any of us can put on the application so we can get accepted. Isn't "bored of life" good enough if they are supposed to be all inclusive?

 

[Supertramp]

I would just barely fall under #3. I want to ctb safely as a 40th birthday present to myself. I still don't understand how they are identifying people as mentally ill when all mental illnesses are subjective. There is no objective test for a chemical imbalance. There has to be a simple, boilerplate answer that any of us can put on the application so we can get accepted. Isn't "bored of life" good enough if they are supposed to be all inclusive?

I sent an email a couple of days ago asking for clarification on their definition of "well" in one of their FAQs. They replied that I am too young and don't have a condition that would allow me to be accepted. I responded with the following.

Pegasos,

I want to start by quoting Seneca: "The desire to die may be felt, not only by the sensible man or brave or unhappy man, but by even the man who is merely surfeited." These words are almost 2 millennia old and I believe accurately describe sound reasoning for taking ones life.

I recently received an email from Damian stating that due to my age and lack of a medical condition, I would be denied VAD with pegasos. I implore you to reconsider, as this is the most peaceful way for me to go. I don't know if opinion or the law is what makes the determination but please hear me out.

Without VAD my only other options are illegal or painful methods that will either lead to very uncomfortable final moments or potentially my arrest and incarceration, not to mention being admitted against my will if unsuccessful. Pegasos has the power allow me to die comfortably and assuredly at the time of my choosing. Either way, I will be ending my life in the near future; it is my hope that it will be comfortable and free of pain and panic.

With that stated, and assuming it is opinion driving the denial: what would I have to do in order to get approved for VAD with Pegasos?

We live in a world where suicide is vilified and wanting to end ones life is sure to quickly lead to a diagnosis of mental illness. I truly believe a person can want to end their life without being mentally ill; finding a healthcare professional that agrees with me is unlikely.

I am currently waiting to hear back from them. I believe that my argument is short, but sound. I'm hoping for a positive response.

 

[Supertramp]

Pegasos replied the following:

Philosophically we agree with you, but we still have to work within the regulations of Swiss law.

I'm sorry, but as mentioned previously we are unable to assist you at Pegasos.

We strongly encourage to seek counselling or investigate other areas of assistance in your home country.

Kind regards and best wishes,

This leads me to believe that it's a law issue, or a cop out as he doesn't really cite anything. Either way, they're almost identical to exit since they require something to be (in their opinion) wrong with you. What a waste of a subscription fee.

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

Do you need to make a paid subscription in order to get an answer from them and to know if they would evaluate your case?
I'm almost 40 and with unbearable inflammations in several parts of my body; no doctor has considered my case seriously and have tried therapies. Because of my reduced quality of life and impossibility in diagnose and suppress my problems, I suppose I would be eligible.

 

[Supertramp]

Do you need to make a paid subscription in order to get an answer from them and to know if they would evaluate your case?
I'm almost 40 and with unbearable inflammations in several parts of my body; no doctor has considered my case seriously and have tried therapies. Because of my reduced quality of life and impossibility in diagnose and suppress my problems, I suppose I would be eligible.

I'm not entirely sure if you do. They reviewed my file when I asked the question so I would assume so. I would suggest checking their website. They require quite a bit of documentation. If you have documentation from medical professionals, it might make it easier for you to get them to agree with your decision.

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

I wrote them (without a subscription) and I asked if my case would be considered for a VAD. They replied that they often consider incurable health conditions and there are chances that my case would not be rejected. But I have to make the subscription and send all the medical reports on my health problem in order to receive a definitive answer.

 

[Stevo]

Please share if yourself or anybody you know has been admitted by Pegasos. Given the vagueness of the approval process for assisted dying organizations, it helps to be able to reference past cases.

I think generally speaking the applicant cohort can be classified into six groups, as below. There is no precise definition of what a "young", "older", or "senior" patient is, but just as an image for our discussion purpose, young means under 40, older means 40-60, and senior means 60+.

1. Young patient with mental illness only
2. Young patient with physical illness
3. Older patient with mental illness only
4. Older patient with physical illness
5. Senior patient without mental or physical illness. Simply suffering from effects of old age.
6. Senior patient with illness of some form, whether physical or mental.

At this point, we know that 5 and 6 have the highest probability of approval (pretty much almost certainty) and is not very interesting for our purpose of discussion here. 4 is also very likely for approval. When it gets down to 3, this is where it becomes more debatable and interesting. At present Pegasos seems to be taking 3 on a case-by-case basis. 2 is also debatable. I have so far not heard or seen any cases of 2 yet. The question is what constitutes acceptable physical illness, and for how long the applicant must be suffering from it. Finally 1 is least likely and there doesn't seem to be any progress yet. Correct me if I am wrong however.

Hi What older means to you. From what age people are considered old enough?

 

[Foreversad]

I wrote them (without a subscription) and I asked if my case would be considered for a VAD. They replied that they often consider incurable health conditions and there are chances that my case would not be rejected. But I have to make the subscription and send all the medical reports on my health problem in order to receive a definitive answer.

Could i pm u?
They want 5000 beforehand and then sent medical records and tell you about approval or not?

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

Could i pm u?
They want 5000 beforehand and then sent medical records and tell you about approval or not?

Hi. Yes, you can pm me

 

[dropintheocean]

Hi. Yes, you can pm me

Hi! May I ask if you hot accepted for vad? Im trying to research this. Almost all I have found here who got accepted arent here anymore.. :(

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

I haven't tried. I'm trying to stabilize my health condition.
And I'm trying to understand which method would be more suitable to me.
Every month during my regular visit at the doctor I would like to mention about it; but then I run out of time and I'm sent out of the clinic..

 

[dropintheocean]

I haven't tried. I'm trying to stabilize my health condition.
And I'm trying to understand which method would be more suitable to me.
Every month during my regular visit at the doctor I would like to mention about it; but then I run out of time and I'm sent out of the clinic..

Thank you so much for replying! You mean method for trying to heal or ctb? May I ask have you researced VAD options alot? Just curious have you heard good things about pegasos and would that be your first option of VAD places?

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

Method for trying to ctb.
Pegasos seemed the most open association for a VAD, while the others seemed more strict.
If someone is older than 40 and with an incurable condition that reduces his quality of life, he has good chances for getting accepted.
The only problems are
- you need to pay in advance to have your case evaluated and submit your medical records that testify about your condition
- if you do not get accepted, you will get a part of those money back, but not all
- It's possible that once you get accepted, you need to be ready. They could come back to you with an appointment as soon as they have a slot. I've heard someone saying that if you refuse, you could lose your chance for a VAD (but I can't remember if it was with Pegasos). This wouldn't be a problem if you live with another person (married) or you have parents nearby, as they would take care of all your belongings once you are gone.
- a person that knows you should come with you during the VAD, or you have to pay someone at Exit International for that