Discussion Our brains trick us into thinking there is consciousness after death

[KillingPain267]

Our brains trick us into thinking consciousness can reside outside the body, new Northeastern research proves

Iris Berent argues that the debate stems from the delusional biases in the way humans think about the separation of body and mind.

news.northeastern.edu

This may be proof that there is no consciousness after the body dies, and thus no afterlife, except for a physical resurrection.

 

[Havnis]

Are you trying to debunk religion? Because that won't work.

 

[KillingPain267]

Are you trying to debunk religion? Because that won't work.

No, I am in fact a Christian, but a physicalist Christian.

 

[Havnis]

No, I am in fact a Christian, but a physicalist Christian.

What is that? Physcicalism christianity, Is it an attempt to rationalize religion? The Beauty of religion is on its irrational.

 

[KillingPain267]

What is that? Physcicalism christianity, Is it an attempt to rationalize religion? The Beauty of religion is on its irrational.

No no, none of the sort. Christian (anthropological)-physicalism (or materialism) is just the interpretation that the Bible's use of words like "soul" and "spirit" regarding human beings have been misunderstood due to philosophical tradition, and that a human being is just a body (monism) and is not comprised of both a physical body and "soul"/"spirit" (dualism) as in an immaterial substance like a ghost.

That means there is no conventional popular "afterlife" of floating around as a ghost, but rather (what the Bible definitely teaches) a physical resurrection on judgment day (a literal body for believers in Christ, but a body that is immortal and without pain, sorrow and sin).

John 5:28: "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Romans 8:23: "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."

Philemon 3:21: "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

But yes, part of religion contains things irrational or at least hard for humans to understand. But so has science discoveries that seem contradictory, irrational and difficult. An example is the difficulty in uniting quantum physics with relativity theory.

 

[Placo]

Our brains trick us into thinking consciousness can reside outside the body, new Northeastern research proves

Iris Berent argues that the debate stems from the delusional biases in the way humans think about the separation of body and mind.

news.northeastern.edu

This may be proof that there is no consciousness after the body dies, and thus no afterlife, except for a physical resurrection.

So you believe that God will one day resurrect the bodies of the dead even if they have evaporated in the meantime?

 

[Terry A. Davis]

No no, none of the sort. Christian (anthropological)-physicalism (or materialism) is just the interpretation that the Bible's use of words like "soul" and "spirit" regarding human beings have been misunderstood due to philosophical tradition, and that a human being is just a body (monism) and is not comprised of both a physical body and "soul"/"spirit" (dualism) as in an immaterial substance like a ghost.

That means there is no conventional popular "afterlife" of floating around as a ghost, but rather (what the Bible definitely teaches) a physical resurrection on judgment day (a literal body for believers in Christ, but a body that is immortal and without pain, sorrow and sin).

John 5:28: "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Romans 8:23: "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."

Philemon 3:21: "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

But yes, part of religion contains things irrational or at least hard for humans to understand. But so has science discoveries that seem contradictory, irrational and difficult. An example is the difficulty in uniting quantum physics with relativity theory.

Never considered this before. Very interesting stuff

 

[KillingPain267]

So you believe that God will one day resurrect the bodies of the dead even if they have evaporated in the meantime?

Yup, that is what the Bible says is the "afterlife". He can collect every dispersed atom. Picture it as your house burning down to ash and then being rebuilt the same way, using the same engineer who made the blueprint. To all intents and purposes it's the same house to you. God is that Engineer/Author.

I mean, technically, every cell in your body is replaced every 7-10 years, yet "you" are still "you" for some reason (it's the blueprint by the Author that makes you you).

 

[locked*n*loaded]

My brain doesn't trick me

 

[KillingPain267]

My brain doesn't trick me

Ne neither... now. The study also showed that autists and men think less in ways of consciousness existing outside the body.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Ne neither... now. The study also showed that autists and men think less in ways of consciousness existing outside the body.

Well I'm not autist, at least as far as I know, but I am male. Still, I'd like to believe it has more to do with my awareness of self, my intelligence along with my acumen and deductive reasoning skills, and my good common sense. I suppose I wouldn't be entirely candid if I didn't mention that my beliefs - atheist with some agnostic underpinnings (we can't know what we don't know), probably, also, has some bearing on when I believe consciousness ends.

 

[KillingPain267]

Well I'm not autist, at least as far as I know, but I am male. Still, I'd like to believe it has more to do with my awareness of self, my intelligence along with my acumen and deductive reasoning skills, and my good common sense. I suppose I wouldn't be entirely candid if I didn't mention that my beliefs - atheist with some agnostic underpinnings (we can't know what we don't know), probably, also, has some bearing on when I believe consciousness ends.

Yes, I also came to shed dualism and believe in physicalism by reasoning. But I never really thought about it much before anyway.

 

[BruhXDDDDD]

I'm as irreligious as they come, but I still think the author is missing something. I agree that it's stupid to think a P-zombie would be distinguishable from someone who isn't, and that ideas like free will or non-physical causes for events are really dumb. What I think the article's author lacks is a clear distinction between the concepts of neurological consciousness and witness consciousness. Witness consciousness isn't anything that you can prove or disprove. It's an assumption people make because without anyone to experience reality, most people would say it doesn't matter. If it exists, it doesn't affect reality in any apparent way. The brain may well display what qualifies as a "good" experience for witness consciousness as something unpleasurable, or vice versa. If that's the case, then it's not like we can do anything about such a hell world. Also, if witness consciousness exists, why should I assume it just disappears when its host dies? It could just go somewhere else and experience a different person. Hell, it might already be jumping around without any way of knowing it.

I actually want to read the original journal article because I have a hunch that this news site fucked up what the researcher was actually trying to say.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

What if there is consciousness after death, but it's nothing like you could have imagined?

 

[KillingPain267]

I'm as irreligious as they come, but I still think the author is missing something. I agree that it's stupid to think a P-zombie would be distinguishable from someone who isn't, and that ideas like free will or non-physical causes for events are really dumb. What I think the article's author lacks is a clear distinction between the concepts of neurological consciousness and witness consciousness. Witness consciousness isn't anything that you can prove or disprove. It's an assumption people make because without anyone to experience reality, most people would say it doesn't matter. If it exists, it doesn't affect reality in any apparent way. The brain may well display what qualifies as a "good" experience for witness consciousness as something unpleasurable, or vice versa. If that's the case, then it's not like we can do anything about such a hell world. Also, if witness consciousness exists, why should I assume it just disappears when its host dies? It could just go somewhere else and experience a different person. Hell, it might already be jumping around without any way of knowing it.

I actually want to read the original journal article because I have a hunch that this news site fucked up what the researcher was actually trying to say.

I believe consciousness is like heat from a fire place in a room with half open windows. When the fire dies, so does the phenomenon called heat (in the room). Like, when the brain dies, so does consciousness, maybe after a few minutes or maybe 15 (just like the body can still bleed when the heart is stabbed). But consciousness stops eventually when the brain has died. I know the heat just goes some place else (outside the half open windows) but the heat the people feel in the room at least dissipates when the fire dies and it's just an analogy anyway. So any NDE someone reports even after the brain was dead for like 15 minutes would not change my physicalist view of the human being. It's just like magnetism is an emergent phenomena and not a physical substance itself, but arises from physical substances. If I see magnetic objects move, it doesn't mean there was cobalt, nickel or iron somewhere.

Now that said, I still believe in a religious "afterlife" (next life), namely, a physical resurrection: all dead people will be recreated, with brains and consciousness and all, at the last day. Some bodies (those of the believers) will be raised immortal and the lost will be raised and then executed in fire ("hell") and be burned up to never live again. The earth and heavens will be resurrected too (the universe) complete with new laws of physics supporting immortality and lack of decay. This is not even unscientific, because some physicists believe there will be another big bang with new laws of physics, others that there are multiverses with diverse laws already, and some who actually hypothesize that the universe could end any time. It's called a false vacuum decay, or more colloquially the Big Slurp.

2 Peter 3:10: "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

I hope this happens any time now.