On average a psychiatrist experiences 5 patient suicides during his or her career - why is this number so low?

[noname223]

The positive is I have a lot of new ideas for threads. The bad news is my life is kind of burnning down and potentially I might be forced to kill myself soon. Moreover this forum has less active readers so all the time I put in these threads might be partially wasted. Anyways.

My current psychiatrist told me none of her patients ever committed suicide. This made me wonder she is pretty old. I have made a reserach (depending on the country) I read that a psychiatrist experiences 5 suicides of patients during his career. I have to say for a psychiatrist she is pretty good. Maybe this led to the impressive statistic of her. I could kind of ruin her streak. Maybe I have to do that but I stopped caring about such things because honestly life never rewarded me for such moral behavior quite the opposite happened in a couple of instances recently. It is not like I did not explicitly told her almost everything and she basically forgot it after some months. And I have to emphasize she is by far one of the better psychiatrists I have met in all my years. I had one psychiatrist she was so fucking cold, anti empathetic and numb. I had the feeling if I shot myself in front of her inside my brain her main concern would be how to clean the room. I could very well imagine her statistics is not that good in this instance.

I also wondered a lot about the number of 5 patients who kill themselves. I imagined the number to be way higher. In comparison a train driver has to deal with 2-3 train suicides within his career. Well I personally advocate for liberal assisted suicide laws though the German elite seemingly denies that humna right. This might decreases the traumatizing experiences for train driver. Furthermore I could very well imagine that some of these train drivers kill themselves eventually after such an experience. I was surprised by that number(related to psychiatrists) especially due to the following. I think the suicide rates among bipolar and schizophrenic people is roundabout 15-20 %. But I could be wrong. How many patients does a psychiatrist has during his life? 200??? This is totally guessed without any knowledge. I have some theories. A clinical psychologist once told me especially the people who don't take (antipsychotic) medication kill themselves eventually. So maybe the people who are determined to kill themselves won't search the help of a psychiatrist. I think this probably plays a major role.

In the case of my current psychiatrist I could imagine that some patients leave her prior to the suicide in order not to hurt her. But this also only a guess. Due to my different experiences with therapists it would be interesting how much the behavior plays a role whether patients kill themselves. I met some very incompetent therapists where I can very well imagine that they have a lot of blood on their hand (without being aware of it).

One could also speculate whether and in which magnitude patient suicides could lead to suicidality of the therapist him/herself. I have met some therapists who were very touched by my horrible childhood and life. Though clearly not all of them cared about it. I think the feeling of being unable to help a person can be pretty shocking. The therapist might feel doubts about their own abilities. In my case these worries are clearly not necessary. My family fucked it up. The therapists most of them genuinely tried to help me. They are not really responsible and could not really change the outcome of my life. I hope this might be comforting for them if/ when I kill myself.

What do you think about the number of 5 people? Are you also surprised by it?

 

[shantyizlit]

That sounds so low, maybe it's only counting the patients that are active with the psychiatrist at the time.
I'd imagine most people would've long given up on therapy appointments before they killed themselves.

 

[CW36]

Figures always an underestimate. They don't want the numbers adding extra incentive and license to others.

 

[girlsboysthems]

I THINK it also depends on where the psych works. those in a hospital are less likely to kill themselves because they are observed all the time, those working in clinics or doctors offices are probably more likely to have lost patients.

 

[Forever Sleep]

If this forum's anything to go by, it sounds like plenty of therapists drop people like a hot stone when they learn that they are actively suicidal. Or- they don't take them on to begin with! That's the impression I get from here anyway.

 

[Already Gone6]

Idk, I think it's cause for some people meds actually work. Also because most people on meds have at least a few coping mechanisms that get them through the misery without getting to the point of sheer desperation and suicide maybe?

 

[Ligottian]

When I asked a shrink (now deceased), the best one I ever was a patient of, if he ever had patients that killed themselves, he just said "It was usually the ones we least suspect".

 

[bunn1bel]

Some psychiatrists won't take patients who are too high risk already! I know from experience, I've heard many times "we aren't a good fit for you, you're too high risk"

 

[Hollowman]

Some psychiatrists won't take patients who are too high risk already! I know from experience, I've heard many times "we aren't a good fit for you, you're too high risk"

What a bunch of bs that is, psychiatry needs to be overhauled.

 

[KarmicRain]

Honestly, despite the world always screaming at us to "get help" the fucking hypocrites can't help themselves but be immersed in politics for the sake of public opinion.
The "politics" here being information for potential patients that actually need help being mutually agreed on being too much to handle. The numbers are so low since they'll just turn away anyone deemed too much of a risk. Bit of a side note but i do think a lot of people who are suicidal literally just cannot afford a psychiatrist and/or lack the time to see one because any attempts at even doing that is too fucking much. Stupid profit motives, political bullshit, and as a result unreliable statistic.

 

[Rogue Proxy]

One of the factors for this underestimation is how individuals conceal their desires and plans to end their lives. In general, humans condemn suicide one way or another. Mental health enforcers are one of the major agents that pathologize, suppress, and criminalize anyone trying to escape from life. Confessing one's wishes to die is tantamount to confessing a (severe) crime to law enforcement. Unfortunately, this usually results in forced institutionalization, along with other nasty consequences of this punishment.

Another possible reason is mental health enforcers minimizing the actual suicide count to preserve their image, ego, and salary. After all, a mental health enforcer with a significant death toll will appear incompetent and useless at controlling and "curing" humans. Not to mention outright humiliating when it contradicts their personal biography boasting their "impeccable" problem-solving and positivity. This negative image leads to less profits, high risks of losing employment, and hard blows to their social status, self-esteem, and self-worth.

 

[Wyldfyre4948]

My therapist just dumped me possibly because I'm a big suicide risk and he didn't want me to "pop his cherry" as he said. He seemed like a nice enough guy, but it was pretty cold of him to just drop me. We had a half session at the end of June and he said that he was going to cancel all future appointments, but would get back to me in a few weeks. I got the bill in the mail and he charged me for the full hour and I haven't heard jack and or shit from him. It wasn't working for me anyways. Therapy was a condition my wife had set, so I was only going to keep her happy.

 

[brokeandbroken]

The positive is I have a lot of new ideas for threads. The bad news is my life is kind of burnning down and potentially I might be forced to kill myself soon. Moreover this forum has less active readers so all the time I put in these threads might be partially wasted. Anyways.

My current psychiatrist told me none of her patients ever committed suicide. This made me wonder she is pretty old. I have made a reserach (depending on the country) I read that a psychiatrist experiences 5 suicides of patients during his career. I have to say for a psychiatrist she is pretty good. Maybe this led to the impressive statistic of her. I could kind of ruin her streak. Maybe I have to do that but I stopped caring about such things because honestly life never rewarded me for such moral behavior quite the opposite happened in a couple of instances recently. It is not like I did not explicitly told her almost everything and she basically forgot it after some months. And I have to emphasize she is by far one of the better psychiatrists I have met in all my years. I had one psychiatrist she was so fucking cold, anti empathetic and numb. I had the feeling if I shot myself in front of her inside my brain her main concern would be how to clean the room. I could very well imagine her statistics is not that good in this instance.

I also wondered a lot about the number of 5 patients who kill themselves. I imagined the number to be way higher. In comparison a train driver has to deal with 2-3 train suicides within his career. Well I personally advocate for liberal assisted suicide laws though the German elite seemingly denies that humna right. This might decreases the traumatizing experiences for train driver. Furthermore I could very well imagine that some of these train drivers kill themselves eventually after such an experience. I was surprised by that number(related to psychiatrists) especially due to the following. I think the suicide rates among bipolar and schizophrenic people is roundabout 15-20 %. But I could be wrong. How many patients does a psychiatrist has during his life? 200??? This is totally guessed without any knowledge. I have some theories. A clinical psychologist once told me especially the people who don't take (antipsychotic) medication kill themselves eventually. So maybe the people who are determined to kill themselves won't search the help of a psychiatrist. I think this probably plays a major role.

In the case of my current psychiatrist I could imagine that some patients leave her prior to the suicide in order not to hurt her. But this also only a guess. Due to my different experiences with therapists it would be interesting how much the behavior plays a role whether patients kill themselves. I met some very incompetent therapists where I can very well imagine that they have a lot of blood on their hand (without being aware of it).

One could also speculate whether and in which magnitude patient suicides could lead to suicidality of the therapist him/herself. I have met some therapists who were very touched by my horrible childhood and life. Though clearly not all of them cared about it. I think the feeling of being unable to help a person can be pretty shocking. The therapist might feel doubts about their own abilities. In my case these worries are clearly not necessary. My family fucked it up. The therapists most of them genuinely tried to help me. They are not really responsible and could not really change the outcome of my life. I hope this might be comforting for them if/ when I kill myself.

What do you think about the number of 5 people? Are you also surprised by it?

Going through points slightly haphazardly...

1) As far as anti-psychotics... This has to be something taken out of context. Schizophrenics I can see why that may be the case. Someone who is just depressed? Anti-psychotics? Probably should look into the causes and what is fixable, treatable, etc... Before shoving anti-psychotics which have pretty rough side effects associated down their throat. As far as treatment resistant depression is concerned one could make the argument that if you are desirous of getting/receiving help therefore not as resistant, you would be more willing to take unconventional approaches consequences be damned in the form of anti-psychotics. Even in this cherry picked group it has a 40% failure rate. Then you have costs, the side effects, and etc... Lastly, one of the main outcomes from anti-psychotics is sedation... A lot of suicide comes down to having the energy to actually do it. Sedating you to where you can't do it and essentially waiting for whatever is ailing you to pass seems to be the strategy at play. While robbing you of your cognitive ability etc... To me a lazy and frankly barbaric treatment modality if the person isn't hallucinating etc... If these treatments were effective you wouldn't see nearly 6x the rate of suicide in psychiatrists compared to the normal population. If it worked they would be taking it themselves and staying alive. Which brings up the salient argument are the drugs A) ineffective? B) have horrendous side effects to where they don't want to take it themselves because they are aware of them or C) Both.

Then as mentioned you have frankly many people not under active care of psychiatrist for depression. People know I have been to the psych ward three times in the last 11 months for depression. Outside of the ward I have seen a psychiatrist a total of 0 times. Meaning they don't really deal with the highest risk population. They abandon them or try to shove pills seen above down their throat. Why? Frankly my feeling probably jaded is two-fold 1) they are lazy and have limited resources they could probably try and save one life but treating 4 people for condition x that is treatable has a higher amount saved. So they are treating 1 for 4. Figuring out why and dealing with it takes work and maybe some will but a lot won't. 2) They know the dirty little secret that a) if you don't want help it won't help b) the drugs won't work.

In other words suicides are coming as a comorbidity of other disorders not from standalone depression/suicidal ideation.

 

[CTB Dream]

Think not accrt,
yea forum ltl actv but can wrt wat want, v sry sffr

 

[FormerlyFe(IV)]

I think that people that seek out psychiatrists are more likely to have hope, since they are seeking help in the first place.