Ohio Dr. Found Not Guilty In Fentanyl Deaths Of Critically Ill Patients

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Ohio doctor William Husel found not guilty on 14 murder counts after being accused of speeding up patients' deaths


Ohio Dr. Found Not Guilty In Fentanyl Deaths

 

[NearlyIrrelevantCake]

Anyone have his number?

 

[noaccount]

So, we really don't know what the wishes of these people were.

We have the "families" attempting to speak "for them," saying this was murder, and the doctor ALSO attempting to speak "FOR THEM" saying this was comfort care as they were already dying.

The perspectives of the sick and disabled themselves are left entirely out of all the news stories I've found on this.

(And that, of course, is what makes all the difference as to whether this was violence or compassion.)

 

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So, we really don't know what the wishes of these people were.

We have the "families" attempting to speak "for them," saying this was murder, and the doctor ALSO attempting to speak "FOR THEM" saying this was comfort care as they were already dying.

The perspectives of the sick and disabled themselves are left entirely out of all the news stories I've found on this.

(And that, of course, is what makes all the difference as to whether this was violence or compassion.)

No, I guess we don't know what the patient's wishes were. I guess they were all critically ill. It may be that he wasn't really trying to kill them, just alleviate their suffering a bit. In the end, the jury didn't buy the prosecution's case. I haven't look at all of the news stories on this. It may be that there are no perspectives from the people who passed. It may be that the perspectives are being intentionally left out. I have no idea. I think it is pretty par for the course to have "loved ones", who miss their loved ones terribly, to want to find someone to blame, even of they know in their heart of hearts what those people may have truly desired. I think these "type" of situations are just going to have to play themselves out over time and see where it takes "us" to in the future. To see if these situations can foster some kind of reasonable dialog about this kind of thing.

 

[Smart No More]

This practice is mentioned in the pph. Assisted dying I think its called. Basically slow death by build up of opioid meds. Its apparent not the comfiest way to go but its the happy medium for both patient and Doctors best interests. They no doubt would have expressed verbally that they were ready and wanted out. This man, in my assumption exercised compassion at his peril and for that, (if it was the case) I commend and respect him hugely.

 

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They no doubt would have expressed verbally that they were ready and wanted out.

There's no certainty in knowing if this is the case. That "would have" in this case, or a "might have" in another, or a "should have" in still another, won't get you very far in any court of law.

 

[Smart No More]

There's no certainty in knowing if this is the case. That "would have" in this case, or a "might have" in another, or a "should have" in still another, won't get you very far in any court of law.

I did specify in brackets, "if this is the case". That is to say this was my assumption.

The legal uncertainty is what led me say, (were my inclinations correct) that I'd have a lot of respect for him.

Kinda thought I already said that.

I didn't say it would hold up in court. That was the point.

Regardless, he was found innocent in a court of law.

 

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I did specify in brackets, "if this is the case". That is to say this was my assumption.

The legal uncertainty is what led me say, (were my inclinations correct) that I'd have a lot of respect for him.

Kinda thought I already said that.

I didn't say it would hold up in court. That was the point.

Regardless, he was found innocent in a court of law.

Sry. Missed the stuff in brackets somehow.

 

[Smart No More]

No worries.

 

[Red Scare]

This practice is mentioned in the pph. Assisted dying I think its called. Basically slow death by build up of opioid meds. Its apparent not the comfiest way to go but its the happy medium for both patient and Doctors best interests. They no doubt would have expressed verbally that they were ready and wanted out. This man, in my assumption exercised compassion at his peril and for that, (if it was the case) I commend and respect him hugely.

This is actually way more common than anyone wants to admit. Hospice nurses or doctors regularly overdose people on morphine and other opiates because of our messed up system, not allowing these people to opt for death on their own.

It's like an unspoken truth, a reality of hospice care. I sometimes wonder how involved the patients are in this decision, or if it's between the relatives and the hospice nurses to decide when it's time, sadly because the patient is most likely not in a coherent enough position to decide for themselves. if it were up to them, I bet most of them would choose MAiD before they are in such a weakened and fragile state.

 

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This is actually way more common than anyone wants to admit. Hospice nurses or doctors regularly overdose people on morphine and other opiates because of our messed up system, not allowing these people to opt for death on their own.

I can speak to this with fact. My mother was on Hospice a little over a year ago, and was doing remarkably fine until Hospice felt she needed more effective pain medication. My mother was pretty tough and hated pills of any kind. Being the wise person she was, she knew that strong pain medications would hasten her death and I'm sure she had no real desire to go anywhere sooner than she needed to. She could take a lot of pain, and did. After she passed, I found many, many discarded pain pills that were given to her that she had hidden in a basket near the couch she was on. There is no doubt in my mind that the so called "baby dose" of Tramadol given to her sped up her decline and ultimately led to her death before her time.

 

[Smart No More]

This is actually way more common than anyone wants to admit. Hospice nurses or doctors regularly overdose people on morphine and other opiates because of our messed up system, not allowing these people to opt for death on their own.

It's like an unspoken truth, a reality of hospice care. I sometimes wonder how involved the patients are in this decision, or if it's between the relatives and the hospice nurses to decide when it's time, sadly because the patient is most likely not in a coherent enough position to decide for themselves. if it were up to them, I bet most of them would choose MAiD before they are in such a weakened and fragile state.

Definitely.

There's a whole section on it in the pph. I'm not a pph fanboy, so to speak but I'm glad it covers that practice as it is never rcorded that way because its an exploitation of a loophole in the law. They can claim the patient eventually 'succumbed' to their medication due to deteriorated health and the dose/high blood levels are due to a build in tolerance during there treatment. There is an 'understanding' that goes unwritten. Though I'm pretty sire anyone in that field sees the way it does get written up as code for MAiD.

It does bring up the question, do they ever do it because it opens up beds or saves unnecessary resources. It's a bit cold to do it for those reasons. Honestly it's a very grey area but if it were me and I was no longer able to contest the meds I's hope they went ahead regardless of their motivations. All this said, I do feel a certain optimism knowing that there are some soing thos compassionately because my experiences in the healthcare system have actually made me scared to be at the mercy of the majority of medical worker. From the bottom to the top. I've met some heartless sorts! I had a lot more faith in them going in. Got a shock to the system real quick. Doctors when I was a kid were excellent. Since then the industry has been flooded with people in it for the money. A lot of them pished that way by their families. Bedside manner is rare as is compassion. Grinds my gears and boils my piss. I just hope MAiD doesn't die out because of these filthy bumnugget smugglers.

 

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It does bring up the question, do they ever do it because it opens up beds or saves unnecessary resources

Most Hospice is in people's own homes now. They won't even let you go into "in-patient" care, except for short reprieves to give caretakers a break, or if there is no other place for someone to be. They also told me there is short term in-patient care available if meds need serious adjustment that requires more monitoring than home Hospice can provide.

 

[Someone123]

The dosage I heard the he prescribed in 1000 mcg, which is 1 mg- in was ten times higher than the most normally prescribed for pain. Som people say 2 mg is the normal lethal dose, but in someone very sick it is clearly less. This is a grey area, based on these quick searches it seems surprising he wasn't convicted.

 

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The dosage I heard the he prescribed in 1000 mcg, which is 1 mg- in was ten times higher than the most normally prescribed for pain. Som people say 2 mg is the normal lethal dose, but in someone very sick it is clearly less. This is a grey area, based on these quick searches it seems surprising he wasn't convicted.

Must have been something wrong with the case. Some of it I saw on CourtTV. Didn't get to hear all the evidence. I'm sure they'll find time to talk about it tomorrow. They really stopped covering it because the Johnny Depp / Amber Heard civil trial started ,which I'm sure has higher ratings.

 

[Smart No More]

I can speak to this with fact. My mother was on Hospice a little over a year ago, and was doing remarkably fine until Hospice felt she needed more effective pain medication. My mother was pretty tough and hated pills of any kind. Being the wise person she was, she knew that strong pain medications would hasten her death and I'm sure she had no real desire to go anywhere sooner than she needed to. She could take a lot of pain, and did. After she passed, I found many, many discarded pain pills that were given to her that she had hidden in a basket near the couch she was on. There is no doubt in my mind that the so called "baby dose" of Tramadol given to her sped up her decline and ultimately led to her death before her time.

Well there's an issue there. I will say firstly, if they did push meds against her will that's not okay.

What concerns me though is that she was taking them from them and hiding them. This then leaves the nurses thinking she's taking them. This means they believe tolerance is building. It also means thar based on their belief she took them that all the medical observations of her relative to that would be null and void but they weren't aware. Therefore they couldn't be held responsible for giving her steong meds thinking she could tolerate them.

Pain meds don't hasten death unless in high doses or in cases of liver and kidney deseases. Or of course when not doing well. I can't speak for the integrity of the nurses caring for toy relative but I do know that nurses have to respect and accept any declined pain meds. There are some meds that may be forced but usually it's part of the duty of care ro respect that some people don't want their meds. Maybe it's different in your country though.

Most hospice and care companies are businesses and they're pretty fucking cold tbf. I know cos I've trained in them. They're just money machines and their biggest concern is not getting sued/charged. It's all arse covering. There are the odd good ones but most are terrible. They pay the carers as little as possible and if it's domiciliary (house to house) they don't usually get paid for the time they travel between clients. They have set rimes to deal with clients (which mean clients suffer. Particularly dementia patients or servere limited people because you can tell them to be sick on a schedule. Some need taking to the toilet or wash or both. How can you wxpect a person to pee or poop on schedule!?
Then there's the rules around things like fires. If your patient is immobile (say in a wheelshair for example) and you can't wheel them out the house you are expected to leave them and exit the house and wait for help to arrive. If you pick them up) specifically around the waste) you can be charged with assault because they bruise easily in that area. You are also not allowed to grasp an arm to catch them if they fall because again, assualt. Ass covering gone mad.

The reason you'll. See a lot of live in care being pushed is because it's more expensive and off the back of covid they can now use it as an excuse to get you to have home care and pay the premium fees that come with it.

My thoughts earlier regarding people close to death and the doctors and nurses treating them were of those in hospital surroundings. Were they in home, hospices or most other independent care scenarios I'd feel differently. I have no faith in them and if you ever find a good one you should thank your lucky stars and grasp onto it with the strength and money you can muster.