Odd Reason to Suicide?

[Meretricious]

This may seem quite silly, but is anyone suicidal because of their intelligence?

Earlier this year I watched a Lex Friedman podcast interviewing Karl Deisseroth, discussing intelligence and depression... and the links between the two. Apparently, the more intelligent one is, the more likely they are to be depressed, and the severity and duration of the depression worsens as intelligence heightens.

I've been depressed and suicidal since age seven (7), also my first suicide attempt. I have treatment resistant major depression.

I often feel and think that I'm too intelligent for [even living] life, especially when we live in a "lowest common denominator" type world, where stupidity, sexualization of everything, ignorance, objectification, exploitation, and sixty (60) second YouTube shorts make up nearly the entirety of modernity (and has for decades, continually exacerbated as time passes).

I am shunned for my smarts, skill sets, and insights. I am punished for helping others and giving genuine, efficient advice, assistance, and/or insight. I eventually lost connections and relationships I had in life because people "felt too inferior around me," instead of learning from me, in example (and I'm happy to teach, by the way). I'm looked down upon for my speech patterns, pronunciation, and diction, because I don't mumble my way through life and actually clearly say letters such as "t," in example. People, even strangers, often ask me if I'm a foreigner, strictly because of how I speak and communicate, and it's sometimes even one of the first questions I'm asked. I wish I were a foreigner because my country is a fucking joke, riddled with only punchlines. I'm utterly ashamed to be considered of this country, and I'd revoke my citizenship in a heartbeat, if it were an available option.

Whenever I meet someone more intelligent than I am, I'm immediately interested in them and excited - because this could be another learning opportunity and/or a great relationship to build! I have rarely met someone more intelligent than I am, but I also haven't been all around the world to search for people. Ha. I love to learn and expand my knowledge. But, I often find I can't apply said knowledge in such an empty, ostracizing, depraved, regressing world - and it only seems to spread throughout cultures and societies.

I know that there are instances of intelligent people strictly using their intelligence to take advantage of others, and I'm definitely NOT that statistic. My actions back up my words and promises, and people have noticed that. I'm empathetic and compassionate, and I put others before myself, especially those I hold dear. I often end up being screwed over and/or taken advantage of, BECAUSE of my empathy, compassion, and kindness. So, yes, I know it's an odd, even rare combination, to be both an intellectual and an empath; but I exist. Both my emotional intelligence and intelligence are easily and quickly noticed by others, so I don't think I'm being mistaken for an intelligent, emotionless, ice cold, tyrant.

I don't have anything in common with the people I meet, befriend, date, etcetera. I'm too different from others and it causes a deep feeling of loneliness and only resurfaces my abandonment issues. I'm beyond irrelevant. Where does one go from there?

I don't have a problem with solitude, but too much of ANYTHING can permanently debilitate and/or kill you...

Am I just a pussy, or is this something other intelligent souls experience and/or feel? I'm so sick of having to lower my bar/standards just to make a friend or get along with someone; I've only done it a few times, but I always regret doing it in the end.

 

[SoftWorries]

You should watch Mob Psycho.

If you have the gift of intelligence you can use it to gift goodness into the world. Write the book people need to read. Create a game that will bring people peace. Create something in your vision of the world that can draw the proles in.

You don't need to feel alone even if no one can relate to you. Instead you can use your intelligence to be the benefactor of humanity. Daddy Longlegs is a good role to play

Or you can just take it easy. The smartest man on the planet was a bouncer and now owns a farm with his smart wife. Probably they have a really smart dog. Living the good life

 

[jorheslen428]

This may seem quite silly, but is anyone suicidal because of their intelligence?

Earlier this year I watched a Lex Friedman podcast interviewing Karl Deisseroth, discussing intelligence and depression... and the links between the two. Apparently, the more intelligent one is, the more likely they are to be depressed, and the severity and duration of the depression worsens as intelligence heightens.

I've been depressed and suicidal since age seven (7), also my first suicide attempt. I have treatment resistant major depression.

I often feel and think that I'm too intelligent for [even living] life, especially when we live in a "lowest common denominator" type world, where stupidity, sexualization of everything, ignorance, objectification, exploitation, and sixty (60) second YouTube shorts make up nearly the entirety of modernity (and has for decades, continually exacerbated as time passes).

I am shunned for my smarts, skill sets, and insights. I am punished for helping others and giving genuine, efficient advice, assistance, and/or insight. I eventually lost connections and relationships I had in life because people "felt too inferior around me," instead of learning from me, in example (and I'm happy to teach, by the way). I'm looked down upon for my speech patterns, pronunciation, and diction, because I don't mumble my way through life and actually clearly say letters such as "t," in example. People, even strangers, often ask me if I'm a foreigner, strictly because of how I speak and communicate, and it's sometimes even one of the first questions I'm asked. I wish I were a foreigner because my country is a fucking joke, riddled with only punchlines. I'm utterly ashamed to be considered of this country, and I'd revoke my citizenship in a heartbeat, if it were an available option.

Whenever I meet someone more intelligent than I am, I'm immediately interested in them and excited - because this could be another learning opportunity and/or a great relationship to build! I have rarely met someone more intelligent than I am, but I also haven't been all around the world to search for people. Ha. I love to learn and expand my knowledge. But, I often find I can't apply said knowledge in such an empty, ostracizing, depraved, regressing world - and it only seems to spread throughout cultures and societies.

I know that there are instances of intelligent people strictly using their intelligence to take advantage of others, and I'm definitely NOT that statistic. My actions back up my words and promises, and people have noticed that. I'm empathetic and compassionate, and I put others before myself, especially those I hold dear. I often end up being screwed over and/or taken advantage of, BECAUSE of my empathy, compassion, and kindness. So, yes, I know it's an odd, even rare combination, to be both an intellectual and an empath; but I exist. Both my emotional intelligence and intelligence are easily and quickly noticed by others, so I don't think I'm being mistaken for an intelligent, emotionless, ice cold, tyrant.

I don't have anything in common with the people I meet, befriend, date, etcetera. I'm too different from others and it causes a deep feeling of loneliness and only resurfaces my abandonment issues. I'm beyond irrelevant. Where does one go from there?

I don't have a problem with solitude, but too much of ANYTHING can permanently debilitate and/or kill you...

Am I just a pussy, or is this something other intelligent souls experience and/or feel? I'm so sick of having to lower my bar/standards just to make a friend or get along with someone; I've only done it a few times, but I always regret doing it in the end.

I know people always look down upon Mensa because it's viewed as snobbish/ elitist, but this (loneliness from being different) seems like an extremely valid reason to join a group like that.

On the topic of the correlation between intelligence and depression, I do think there might be some connection and many psychologists think so, but the research is conflicting (from what I remember).

 

[Moribunz]

I understand this, I never stop thinking. I am left with 3 minds on a fluctuating scale. I am either too caught up in whats physically right in front of me, too caught up in my mind, or too caught up behind it. And behind it is the best way I can explain how I just leave in thought and feel only thought to the point my body is making involuntary actions like ripping out my hair or hitting myself to wake up. It happens when I question things, primarily philosophical questions. I am not religious nor do I believe in alternate beings. I simply feel we are just as soulless as robots but only self aware. I never can agree with people because I do not feel a part of them. I can never come to an agreement with myself because I believe there really is no right or wrong answer to anything I think. Beyond small equations that add up to things physically. Like psychological concepts and the way we are solely for our own survival. I think I spend to much time wondering. How is that made? Why does this look like that? How? how how how how. Thats all I do. And I do not stop until I have found an answer because unfortunately it is just how I grew up. I feel like life can either be enjoyed or not. I do not want to force myself to enjoy something that I suffer in despite the fact I am interested by it. I just can not look at people in the face without wondering why they feel they have some sort of power compared whats around them. When they are all here just because. I think its why I feel the need to leave. Soon. But yes, I think I understand.

 

[OceanBlue]

I don't think that it's possible for a human to be intelligent, but it could be that you are smart for a human, there are many like you here who find this floating torture chamber ridiculous and unbearable.

 

[kazewoatsumete]

maybe the people that are able to cope with the world and find peace are wise in their own ways that we're lacking. i personally have always found that people who go around tooting their own horns about their intelligence are rarely the brightest bulbs

 

[Kasumi]

I don't think that being intelligent usually means to be less empathetic, quiet the opposite actually.
Generally most real empathetic people I know are also more intelligent than average, not counting those with "fake empathy" (the ones quickly pitying everyone and everything but not actually caring).

I dont think I myself am very intelligent, perhaps just above general average or about or a little below the average of college / university students.
But I still feel the same as you when you say this:

where stupidity, sexualization of everything, ignorance, objectification, exploitation, and sixty (60) second YouTube shorts make up nearly the entirety of modernity

 

[requiesce]

Hello, Meretricious!

I have been lurking around this forum for a while now, and never have I felt more of an urge to respond to a post than to yours. The descriptions of your life you provided, are very relatable to me. I have always felt as sort of an outcast in society due to my intelligence. No one seems to really understand me, but not vice versa; I am very empathically capable and people often refer to me as a great listener and overall person to talk to.

Mental health has always been a big issue to me. My parents always thought I was overly silent and it eventually came to a point that they took me to the psychiatrist, because they thought something was wrong with me. I was diagnosed with depression at the age of fifteen, and for the first year I wasn't put on any medications. My condition didn't seem to go away, so the psychiatrist made me take antidepressants. They helped for a while, but it all just went back to what it usually was. That's the crazy thing: my parents thought my mental health was endangered, but I never saw it that way. I had always felt like this ever since I was a small kid; I never had a lot of emotions at all. Suicidal thoughts come and go, but I have never attempted anything as there was always something in the way.

When it comes to friends, I have never really had someone I can relate to. All my childhood "friends" up until I went to university were just a form of passing the time to me. That, I came to realise, when I graduated from high school and we stopped talking. It came to me that if I didn't see them at school, I didn't feel the need to talk to them, because what they talked about was way below my level anyways. From that point onwards, I spent most of my time alone in my apartment.

Throughout my life, I have only met a handful of like-minded people. It always follows the same process: I meet someone smart enough for me to actually want to be friends with them, we become friends for a while, but eventually we always stop talking because in the end, it didn't seem like we had much in common.


If you ever need anyone to talk to, please send me a message. From what you have posted, it seems to me that you would be an enjoyable person for me to talk to.

 

[Meretricious]

If you ever need anyone to talk to, please send me a message. From what you have posted, it seems to me that you would be an enjoyable person for me to talk to.

Hey there. I appreciate your detailed response and the offer I've quoted above. Unfortunately, I can't message you until you've become a more seasoned member of this site. I'm a sucker for good discourse.

I'm able to accept private messages, if you're able to send them. I'm still new to this site and learning, myself. Cheers.

 

[Nights]

I love loneliness and i want to be alone just myself forever and ever

 

[Meretricious]

I love loneliness and i want to be alone just myself forever and ever

I definitely value my solitude. But, I do find moments where it would be pleasant to keep good, like-minded company.

I've always thought a bird of some sort, would better replace humans and their faulty relationships with one another.

maybe the people that are able to cope with the world and find peace are wise in their own ways that we're lacking. i personally have always found that people who go around tooting their own horns about their intelligence are rarely the brightest bulbs

I wasn't going to respond to this, but I should. I like the outlook you're using of thinking some may have found peace others haven't. Maybe they even have tactics I'm unaware of, too. Something for me to consider.

OTHER PEOPLE, even strangers I've just met, have commented on my above average intelligence. Most of my life, I've been told I'm brighter than most of my peers and the like. I didn't start believing my intelligence bracket was real or impacting my life, until my late twenties. It's definitely not a case of me running around telling the world I'm the smartest cookie. I posted this thread to vent and hopefully find other like-minded people. Or maybe even a different outlook, as you proposed in the beginning of your comment.

Also consider the rapid decline in human intelligence in modernity, another thing that worries me and singles out those who don't succumb to such declines.

 

[Little_Suzy]

Intelligence should make your life simpler, not more difficult. However, being an empath is challenging, so I understand many of your issues.

Have you been tested for Schizotypal Personality Disorder?

 

[Meretricious]

Intelligence should make your life simpler, not more difficult.

Have you been tested for Schizotypal Personality Disorder?

Not in a world drowned in ignorance, that singles out those who show even a shred of intelligence. I don't follow your logic here.

I'm hyper self aware and aware of my surroundings. I know my limits and what I'm capable of. And I won't repeat things I've already elucidated in previous comments to others. You may have commented hastily, but what do I know?

Lots of things SHOULD be a certain way in life; doesn't mean things actually pan out that way. Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans.

I'm not schizophrenic in any fashion. Why do you ask, what is eluding to you that I might be schizophrenic? I'm just depressed beyond words.

 

[SoftWorries]

I know a few unbelievably smart people who are very happy.

One is a leading researcher on brain cancers. He trip sits people for psychedelic therapy in his free time and is exceedingly wholesome and happy.

On the other hand Chris Langan is an alt right conspiracy theorist.

I don't think intelligence has very much to do with having bad takes or being cut off from the world. People who are kind and giving don't need to be very intelligent. People who aren't don't benefit much from being smart

 

[woh6]

I think intelligence definitely can play a role.

After one of my suicide attempts I ended up in the hospital. I got evaluated by 2 mental health care workers and they mentioned intelligence. Said it seemed like I was highly intelligent and that people with such intelligence seem to analyze things (like life) more, and in a more realistic manner, which is often considered as 'negative'. I'm also very aware of myself/surroundings which can make things worse sometimes.

From your post, I get the impression as if you think you're above others(at least those with lower intelligence)? I can imagine it could be harder, with that mindset, to make friends, though thats not something easily solvable. Personally, I don't really have an issue with this. I kinda lost my ability to make friends easily but I don't have trouble getting along with others.

 

[PurpleParadigm]

I think what you are going through may well be NPD or something of the sort. There was a user on here a while ago talking about one being able to choose to feel happy, as in you simply choose not to be depressed anymore and become happy. Pal, you're not happy; you are still depressed, just manic.

The thing is that one does not become intelligent by being complacent; a key component of intelligence is constantly questioning your own abilities. Perhaps this is why there is this sort of correlation. If you constantly question yourself, keep finding kinks in your armor, things that you could have done better, it may also lead to depressive symptoms. You would thus often notice that some of the more clever people in your life would rarely call themselves such. Knowledge and capability aren't a one-and-done deal; to be good at something, one must put constant effort into keeping up with the world around them. You say that people are now less intelligent, but is it really so? Simply consider how much more complex the world has become in the last century, how everything operates at a global scale, and how information is constantly supplied to you even when you don't want it. People on here discuss chemistry like it's nothing; little children operate what would be considered a supercomputer a few years ago. Almost every process, down to your bins being emptied on time each week, has been meticulously planned and considered.

You complain about the 60-second YouTube shorts, but to that, I recommend you read this essay:

https://mises.org/library/i-pencil

It talks about how a mere pencil, so familiar to anyone, I'm sure, is, in fact, a miracle of engineering, markets, and logistics. Before you lament the short video formats further, think about how much engineering, programming, computer networks, logistics, manufacturing, and planning, among others, had to happen, to, in a mere few decades, take us from staring bored at a concrete slab of the bus station floor, to looking at a small glass panel hiding beneath it a brilliant retina display powered by many miracles of human achievement, supplying you with all forms of information and entertainment while we wait to catch the bus.

 

[Little_Suzy]

Not in a world drowned in ignorance, that singles out those who show even a shred of intelligence. I don't follow your logic here.

I'm hyper self aware and aware of my surroundings. I know my limits and what I'm capable of. And I won't repeat things I've already elucidated in previous comments to others. You may have commented hastily, but what do I know?

Lots of things SHOULD be a certain way in life; doesn't mean things actually pan out that way. Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans.

I'm not schizophrenic in any fashion. Why do you ask, what is eluding to you that I might be schizophrenic? I'm just depressed beyond words.

You're depressed because you don't have any buddies to make you laugh. I reached out to you, and you snapped. Is this what occurs in real life? I didn't state schizophrenia; rather, I cited schizotypal personality disorder. I wanted to clarify this. You can either read what I wrote to you or stop reading now.

I brought it up because personality disorders are less spoken about than other types of mental disorders, thus many people go untreated.

SPD is not the same as schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is a psychotic condition rather than a personality disorder. In SPD, you are lucid, but not in schizophrenia.

Many people check a lot of boxes, yet life never seems to come full circle.

It's because you're suffering socially, and without friends and connections, no matter how intelligent and noble you are, it's tough to make it in this world.

We were not created to live in isolation; rather, we are social beings. To go through life unscathed, we need friends, family, and allies. Humans do better when they have friends and family to lean on during tough times.

People with mental illness are the ones who have cut themselves off from friends and family, as well as the workforce.

Perhaps you made an effort to keep relationships alive, only to be abandoned in the end. Undiagnosed personality disorders are a legitimate cause of human misery.

The world does not view you as you see yourself. The first step in solving any issue is identifying it.

 

[SexyIncél]

I eventually lost connections and relationships I had in life because people "felt too inferior around me," instead of learning from me, in example (and I'm happy to teach, by the way). I'm looked down upon for my speech patterns, pronunciation, and diction, because I don't mumble my way through life and actually clearly say letters such as "t," in example. People, even strangers, often ask me if I'm a foreigner, strictly because of how I speak and communicate, and it's sometimes even one of the first questions I'm asked. I wish I were a foreigner because my country is a fucking joke, riddled with only punchlines.

Would it help to practice communicating in a way that makes people feel comfortable?

Consider that most children are graded like cattle: Grade A, Grade F. Traumatizes them; they're used to seeing the teacher's pet as the hated competitor, and anyone with a whiff of that can be difficult for them to deal with

 

[pickajack]

Why do you ask, what is eluding to you that I might be schizophrenic? I'm just depressed beyond words.

I think you mean *alluding*, and even then, I think the syntax is off. Normally, I wouldn't correct someone, but you've mentioned repeatedly how important learning is to you. Putting yourself on a pedestal will earn you corrections and learning opportunities at best, disdain and isolation at worst. I hope you find your tribe and/or direct some of your brainpower to practicing social interaction as others suggested. Best wishes.

 

[jaxxon_sunn]

I was a gifted kid, whatever that means, but I was in higher classes throughout middle school. I never had any friends in those classes though. They would all be in their own circles and if I would try to talk to them they would act smarter than me and debate me about whatever they knew most, which leads to me being wrong about something I never learned. This made me stop trying to be in higher classes because my thinking would always be wrong. I think very different but can't articulate much about how I think that way. I just do. Theres countless times I would know the right answer in my head but explain it wrong. In high school I'd always almost fail classes because I wouldn't turn in homework and only pass because I would score high on tests. I also never learned how to study correctly for myself. I've always loved learning and still do but school is still a struggle for me the way they structure learning and everything. I don't think I'm very smart but I enjoy learning. What topics do u like discussing? I love to listen to people in order to learn. I just need to ask questions for my brain to process it