Discussion Obsessed about suicide

[Ashpac]

I think about it all the time too.. And the more days that pass the more I feel that need to do it.

Is there anything keeping you here at the moment like debts/other kinds of loose ends?
Do you have a date in mind?
Just curious didnt mean to bombard you with questions

 

[QueenEtna]

Is there anything keeping you here at the moment like debts/other kinds of loose ends?
Do you have a date in mind?
Just curious didnt mean to bombard you with questions

The only thing that was keeping me here was my girlfriend.. but now that we aren't together there's nothing holding me back. I don't have a set date or any reliable methods at the moment.

 

[Ashpac]

The only thing that was keeping me here was my girlfriend.. but now that we aren't together there's nothing holding me back. I don't have a set date or any reliable methods at the moment.

Ahh right, that sucks, sorry :(

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

You constantly think about suicide and you have a child ?

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

So what is the reasoning behind the line you're drawing between living out of an obligation to relatives in general and living for those dependent on you? (Sorry if that sounds confrontational, but I'd like to know more about the intellectual standpoint you're taking.)

You created children, you created their needs and imposed life and those needs on them, you chose to have that responsibility.

You didn't create your relatives and their need, that responsibility was imposed on you, huuge difference.

 

[bigj75]

You constantly think about suicide and you have a child ?

there are plenty of depressed parents.

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

there are plenty of depressed parents.

There are plenty of selfish egoistic parents, what is your point ?

 

[bigj75]

There are plenty of selfish egoistic parents, what is your point ?

we don't know the variables in this.

 

[midastic]

So what is the reasoning behind the line you're drawing between living out of an obligation to relatives in general and living for those dependent on you? (Sorry if that sounds confrontational, but I'd like to know more about the intellectual standpoint you're taking.)

A suicide will affect your relatives, parents, loved ones emotionally most of the time (unless you are the breadwinner or they are all dependent on you). Emotional trauma is recoverable and easy to move on from for some while it can be a lifelong problem which is the case with some of us. Most "suicide survivors" were able to still proceed in life through some way.

A suicide will affect a child economically and emotionally, foster cares don't prepare kids for the rest of their life and kids get kicked out right when they are 18 which means they are most likely to be homeless for the rest of their life unless they join the military or somehow did something to get them a nice job. That's like society punishing a child for the rest of their life just because their parent is dead.

 

[weedoge]

Maybe we should have an antinatalism mega thread because I think these views are totally valid but also it stops some people from being able to express their full feelings which is what this place is for partially. Many of us have probably done very sick things but because most of those things are less dear to peoples hearts here they get glossed over unlike OP. Sorry if I'm wrong but I dunno, don't think you can generalise in the way most antinatalists do and I totally get it but people can't control how they feel.

What is the point in staying alive if you're never able to consider or care for your child? What if a parent has some extreme debilitating mental illness other than suicidal thoughts/depression- does that change anything? What if a parent is schizophrenic and delusional and wants to end their suffering due to these factors that can't have been predicted or controlled? Suicidal thoughts are very often the same way.

I know responses will come back and say but OP already knew he was suicidal when he created his child but I'm not trying to justify anything just feel like a pro-choice forum isn't the right place to be jumping on every suicidal parent. "What kind of father are you?" If you're passionate about a cause there are ways of going about it.

Humans aren't born with the knowledge we need to make the correct decisions, parents aren't satan for wanting to die and also I feel it's very situational. Wish you all the best of luck anyway just my opinion.

 

[weedoge]

A suicide will affect your relatives, parents, loved ones emotionally most of the time (unless you are the breadwinner or they are all dependent on you). Emotional trauma is recoverable and easy to move on from for some while it can be a lifelong problem which is the case with some of us. Most "suicide survivors" were able to still proceed in life through some way.

A suicide will affect a child economically and emotionally, foster cares don't prepare kids for the rest of their life and kids get kicked out right when they are 18 which means they are most likely to be homeless for the rest of their life unless they join the military or somehow did something to get them a nice job. That's like society punishing a child for the rest of their life just because their parent is dead.

A parent who is on the edge of suicide probably won't prepare a child economically or emotionally either. I guess I don't have a huge experience in this subject so I'll pop out now but if someone is going to kill themself they will and I don't think personal digs are the correct response to something you disagree with, no matter how vehemently. Hell I make the mistake of doing it all the time so I can't take but ye.

 

[lifeofregret]

You constantly think about suicide and you have a child ?

A popular pastor had a family of 5 and did suicide last week, it's a sin in his religion. I feel like he scammed a lot of money because even in his gofundme he's getting 300k...you don't need 300k for a burial it's usually 5-10k. He had everything, same with Bourdain and Spade

 

[bigj75]

A popular pastor had a family of 5 and did suicide last week, it's a sin in his religion. I feel like he scammed a lot of money because even in his gofundme he's getting 300k...you don't need 300k for a burial it's usually 5-10k. He had everything, same with Bourdain and Spade

When you have legitimate depression that can't be helped having everything just isn't enough.

 

[DF90]

Everyone is responsible for himself. Everything you mentioned is nothing compared to creating life! All suffering your child will endure in its life is directly because of you. Can you imagine the consequences of your death? If you didn't bring a child into this world I would have no problem with you CTB.

Stop being shitty. Parents are allowed to feel suicidal also. They're still people, with feelings.

 

[DF90]

If you're going to be rude and judgemental to this user, because he is a parent and suicidal.. leave the thread now.

 

[RM5998]

You created children, you created their needs and imposed life and those needs on them, you chose to have that responsibility.

You didn't create your relatives and their need, that responsibility was imposed on you, huuge difference.

The distinction isn't always that clear. There are times when you can cut off your relatives (although it can be a lengthy process) and there are times when people are unable to abort a child for various reasons.

A suicide will affect your relatives, parents, loved ones emotionally most of the time (unless you are the breadwinner or they are all dependent on you). Emotional trauma is recoverable and easy to move on from for some while it can be a lifelong problem which is the case with some of us. Most "suicide survivors" were able to still proceed in life through some way.

A suicide will affect a child economically and emotionally, foster cares don't prepare kids for the rest of their life and kids get kicked out right when they are 18 which means they are most likely to be homeless for the rest of their life unless they join the military or somehow did something to get them a nice job. That's like society punishing a child for the rest of their life just because their parent is dead.

Would a partner qualify as someone whom one is responsible for, if they are not working and aren't in a position to get a job? The line isn't that clear. Even worse, there might be times when a person's suicide turns out economically beneficial (depending on your life insurance, I'd say) to their children.

Doesn't forcing people to live for their children until they are self-sufficient boil down to forcing them to hold up a responsibility they might not be capable of fulfilling? Even if it is the result of a conscious choice, isn't the suffering imposed disproportionate? And isn't a cruel judgement like this precisely what the people come to this site to escape?

 

[midastic]

The distinction isn't always that clear. There are times when you can cut off your relatives (although it can be a lengthy process) and there are times when people are unable to abort a child for various reasons.


Would a partner qualify as someone whom one is responsible for, if they are not working and aren't in a position to get a job? The line isn't that clear. Even worse, there might be times when a person's suicide turns out economically beneficial (depending on your life insurance, I'd say) to their children.

Doesn't forcing people to live for their children until they are self-sufficient boil down to forcing them to hold up a responsibility they might not be capable of fulfilling? Even if it is the result of a conscious choice, isn't the suffering imposed disproportionate? And isn't a cruel judgement like this precisely what the people come to this site to escape?

Don't get me wrong, I am not forcing a choice for people that have children because I am not in their position and it really sucks to suffer while living out for your kids. But I encourage them to look out for their children because while they might not have a lot to live for left, their kids are young and are going to be new to life since their brains are developing. A parent's death while a kid is too young is just too sudden for someone who hasn't come to the stage where they will face the hardships of life unless you are an adolescent like me. The way I view essentially is, you gave birth to the child therefore you are imposing your responsibilities on the child as well but I am not a parent myself so therefore I can't really come from their position which is why I won't say much to parents. In terms of partners being dependent on you, society is at the point where both partners are working to pay for their finances (at least in the US) and IIRC most dependent partners were often supported by the deceased's family or the deceased provided them funds/they have a life insurance that pays out for suicides.

 

[RM5998]

Don't get me wrong, I am not forcing a choice for people that have children because I am not in their position and it really sucks to suffer while living out for your kids. But I encourage them to look out for their children because while they might not have a lot to live for left, their kids are young and are going to be new to life since their brains are developing. A parent's death while a kid is too young is just too sudden for someone who hasn't come to the stage where they will face the hardships of life unless you are an adolescent like me. The way I view essentially is, you gave birth to the child therefore you are imposing your responsibilities on the child as well but I am not a parent myself so therefore I can't really come from their position which is why I won't say much to parents. In terms of partners being dependent on you, society is at the point where both partners are working to pay for their finances (at least in the US) and IIRC most dependent partners were often supported by the deceased's family or the deceased provided them funds/they have a life insurance that pays out for suicides.

Well, this mainly seems like a problem highly dependent on social support systems wherever you are living. I'm from a place where every bit of income gathered by a family member is vital, and a lot of families tend to have one regular earning member (usually the male in the couple). If both partners are working, it is usually vital towards maintaining their standard of living. The death of one usually causes a collapse in living standards in addition to grief. And most marriages lead to children being conceived due to pressure from the rest of the family. Thus, the point is significantly muddled where I come from.

However, my point was to question whether the people who have kids while being suicidal can actually be beneficial to them through being alive and present. At the risk of sounding offensive and reductive, I'd say that most of us who are suicidal would find it extremely difficult to be emotionally available for any kids we might have. Even if we manage to fulfill this responsibility, odds are that it has brought no happiness and has left us (the parent) drained. And it would be extremely difficult to prevent the suicidal tendencies from having an impact on the way the child is brought up. A lot of us would agree that even though the mass populace lives under some delusional form of acceptance of life's inherent value, it seems to make them happier. And despite whatever we might think of that belief, I think our children (if we ever have any) would probably be better off believing in the delusion if it makes them happy. However, I don't think most of us would be able to sell this thought process when we have ourselves rejected it. And if that happens, we've basically decided to bring up a child to never be able to value their lives, which sounds like a pointless exercise (even more so than our lives).

 

[Cold]

Yes, it's constantly there in the back of my mind. As soon as I see a knife I think about slitting my wrists, a birgde - jump, a gun - shoot myself, rope - hanging and so on. I don't like it.

 

[Kassender]

Its funny, i would kill to have what you have.

I guess its why some people here react badly.
I dont understand it either.

But you do what you think is right.

 

[MAIO]

You created children, you created their needs and imposed life and those needs on them, you chose to have that responsibility.

You didn't create your relatives and their need, that responsibility was imposed on you, huuge difference.

You think free will exists?

 

[MEoDP]

This is one of the major reasons I'm so adamant about people going into deep introspection before ever choosing to have children. Once you've made the decision to procreate and become a parent,your priorities change completely. I hate to tell you this,but choosing to CTB once you've already become a parent is going to be morally gray at best.

I won't pass down any harsh judgement on you,OP. Because this is largely society's fault for brainwashing into people the idea that having children/becoming parent is a "must" or "eventually what everyone does." and any questioning of that is judged politically incorrect. I could have ended up just like you,but I was fortunate enough to discover that becoming a parent is an option,and not some obligation you must inevitably do early on. (I've even inevitably come to the conclusion that procreation is a morally questionable act in and of itself; a belief known as Antinatalism)

Unsolicited advice incoming...


If you truly want to retain the ability to CTB with minimal ethical consequences,you may have to make a difficult choice. Either look for suitable(financially well off,loving,educated,etc.)adoptive parents and get your spouse/SO to agree to this decision,or leave the relationship while the child is still a baby and never get involved with them other than paying child support till you CTB. (This is assuming its too late to abort. if it isn't and the option is available to you,that's your best option)

Or another option...Kill yourself now while your child is still a baby and therefore can't get attached to you,but I'm assuming you're unwilling to take this option.

Of course,there is the publicly accepted option of getting/help therapy so you find the will to live,but I myself can't advice you regarding that. you might have to ask the mods.

I hope my message is helpful. It really sucks to find yourself in such a moral dilemma.

 

[MEoDP]

You think free will exists?

While I believe that free will is largely an illusion because everything that you are is predicated on factors outside your control. (i.e Where you were born,who your parents are,your experiences,the information that is accessible to you,etc.),you can still to the best of your ability,spread the knowledge that parenthood isn't a must. A lot of people out there who thought parenthood is an inevitable obligation changed their minds once they figured out that they don't have to do it. (i.e Childfree Ideology)

In OP's case,its too late however. all I can do is give my non-expert advice above.

 

[MAIO]

While I believe that free will is largely an illusion because everything that you are is predicated on factors outside your control. (i.e Where you were born,who your parents are,your experiences,the information that is accessible to you,etc.),you can still to the best of your ability,spread the knowledge that parenthood isn't a must. A lot of people out there who thought parenthood is an inevitable obligation changed their minds once they figured out that they don't have to do it. (i.e Childfree Ideology)

In OP's case,its too late however. all I can do is give my non-expert advice above.

I am personally planning on getting a vasectomy. Other than the questionable morality of lbring life into a world where we don't know if it's worth it or not-studies show having children darastically lowers marital sastifaction, happiness etc.

 

[RM5998]

I hate to tell you this,but choosing to CTB once you've already become a parent is going to be morally gray at best.

That's a huge understatement right there. Even assuming the construct of choice exists and can be used to assign responsibility, it becomes an issue that's impossible to discuss rationally because of the emotional investment it commands.

I'm not even sure how an ethical system assigns responsibility here, and which way the burden goes especially if the parent's mental state has a chance of affecting the child in such a way that they are unable to be happy.

 

[RM5998]

I am personally planning on getting a vasectomy. Other than the questionable morality of lbring life into a world where we don't know if it's worth it or not-studies show having children darastically lowers marital sastifaction, happiness etc.

I'm pretty sure I'm the reason my parents' marriage and finances are falling apart, and I don't have the energy to do better, as people say. Sometimes I wonder if I should save my parents the burden of having to pay my obscenely high college fees by CTBing immediately.

 

[MAIO]

That's a huge understatement right there. Even assuming the construct of choice exists and can be used to assign responsibility, it becomes an issue that's impossible to discuss rationally because of the emotional investment it commands.

I'm not even sure how an ethical system assigns responsibility here, and which way the burden goes especially if the parent's mental state has a chance of affecting the child in such a way that they are unable to be happy.

People are so hurt by suicide mostly because of 2 mainfactors. 1) culture values specifically that the persons judgement to die by suicide is wrong, they would of been better of alive could of been talked out of it and 2) partly because of the pain of losing someone to death-death is inevitable and comes to us all though so only 1 matters in this. Do you think someone who commits suicide is responsible for the feeling that result from accepting these culture values?

 

[MEoDP]

I am personally planning on getting a vasectomy. Other than the questionable morality of lbring life into a world where we don't know if it's worth it or not-studies show having children darastically lowers marital sastifaction, happiness etc.

Oh yes,that is absolutely true,and a piece of important knowledge that should be known to everyone. I am of the viewpoint that the majority of people out there were never really meant for parenthood,hence why so many parents screw up at the job resulting in everyone being harmed and the propagation of suffering.

While I don't really know the future of my love life(I've expressed my conflict regarding my sexuality elsewhere),if I do end up in some kind of loving relationship,it would sure as hell not involve parenthood. In the astronomically small chance that I "change my mind" (An insulting assumption made by brainwashed sheep who view parenthood as a must,as if we cannot make our own informed decisions as adults.),I'd become a foster parent(or even less likely,an adoptive one)due to the potential ethical problems associated with procreation,and the fact that I'd have the ability to quit the job anytime I get sick of it,which is an option not available for people who took up the permanent mantle of parenthood. (which is why I'm even less likely to permanently adopt,but I would still choose to foster-to-adopt than procreate,because that gives me time to bond and get a feel for the children I'm caring for and whether I'd develop enough attachment to really want to permanently adopt.)

Regarding your plans of vasectomy,you might appreciate this link should the time come for you to look for a doctor:
https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/doctors

unfortunately,the average doctor will refuse sterilization for the most asinine of reasons(again,societal brainwashing in action),but fortunately the Childfree Community have compiled a list of CF-friendly doctors on that link. Wish you luck on that. :)

 

[MEoDP]

That's a huge understatement right there. Even assuming the construct of choice exists and can be used to assign responsibility, it becomes an issue that's impossible to discuss rationally because of the emotional investment it commands.

I'm not even sure how an ethical system assigns responsibility here, and which way the burden goes especially if the parent's mental state has a chance of affecting the child in such a way that they are unable to be happy.

I know,hence my "at best" comment.

I really hope OP will consider the options I laid out,even though I'm aware that they too are difficult to employ.

 

[RM5998]

People are so hurt by suicide mostly because of 2 mainfactors. 1) culture values specifically that the persons judgement to die by suicide is wrong, they would of been better of alive could of been talked out of it and 2) partly because of the pain of losing someone to death-death is inevitable and comes to us all though so only 1 matters in this. Do you think someone who commits suicide is responsible for the feeling that result from accepting these culture values?

It's more complex than that - implicit in the statement is a value judgement on life (that it is good and worth the effort) that is problematic since it is never discussed. I believe that if there could be a rational debate on that issue, the stigma around suicide would reduce.