not understanding the most basic human concept

[tiaralamb]

The longer I stay alive the more I feel as if life is just…a chore. Like a pointless thing I have to trudge through, gritting my teeth the entire time and cursing under my breath. Sometimes I stare at my friends and think, "How do you actually enjoy this?"

It's insane to me that horrible things have happened to me randomly, and for no reason other than sheer bad luck. It's even more insane to me that the trauma and mental turmoil gained from those experiences have stuck with me, and will probably remain for the rest of my life.

I might be experiencing some sort of high point in my instability, I don't know. Because right now I seriously don't understand how people expect me to do this for another 55+ years. How does no-body understand how obscenely hard and quite frankly terrifying life is? How can they not see how panicked and afraid we really should be? I don't get it at all, and the fact that I don't get it is really concerning me.

I'm really grappling with the fact that I don't understand why anyone bothers living. I feel like I should see a doctor, but it might be a kind of horrible idea because the last time I called a helpline I was almost sectioned. Please help.

 

[absolomonisgone]

I sometimes get this idea and feeling that I don't exist, neither do you exist and nothing exists. It's so real it makes sense. Although I always wonder what is it that exists which makes me think I exist. When I think this way everyone thinks I have a mental health problem and I explain that I made them up and I made everything up. Even the smallest of things like birds singing, cars passing by. I know it's all an imagination. The imagination is so real such that it's real and I have to sometimes doubt if it's not real. Think about it.

 

[MrShino]

It's just a dream. Wake up.
Remember, when you 'wake up' here in this reality, the ego just puts all these traumas and subjective experiences together and reinforces it's belief that it is you. But when you are in deep sleep, this doesn't really exist does it? Where's this 'I' then?

"The world is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. The ride goes up and down, around and around, it has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly colored, and it's very loud, and it's fun for a while. Many people have been on the ride a long time, and they begin to wonder, "Hey, is this real, or is this just a ride?" And other people have remembered, and they come back to us and say, "Hey, don't worry; don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride." And we … kill those people. "Shut him up! I've got a lot invested in this ride, shut him up! Look at my furrows of worry, look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill the good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok … But it doesn't matter, because it's just a ride."

 

[absolomonisgone]

It's just a dream. Wake up.
Remember, when you 'wake up' here in this reality, the ego just puts all these traumas and subjective experiences together and reinforces it's belief that it is you. But when you are in deep sleep, this doesn't really exist does it? Where's this 'I' then?

"The world is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. The ride goes up and down, around and around, it has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly colored, and it's very loud, and it's fun for a while. Many people have been on the ride a long time, and they begin to wonder, "Hey, is this real, or is this just a ride?" And other people have remembered, and they come back to us and say, "Hey, don't worry; don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride." And we … kill those people. "Shut him up! I've got a lot invested in this ride, shut him up! Look at my furrows of worry, look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill the good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok … But it doesn't matter, because it's just a ride."

Said well, but you are just my imagination. Hopefully you understand what I'm saying but then it will be as I imagine

 

[tams]

The living for 55+ more years is the scariest part. I don't wanna have to do this for that much longer. The monotony and routine of my life is torturous. The obsessiveness makes it worse. My predicament is of my own making though, so regardless of some traumas I have had, I chose this. Just as I will chose to ctb when it is time. Life is never fair.

 

[MrShino]

Said well, but you are just my imagination. Hopefully you understand what I'm saying but then it will be as I imagine

Yeah. I understand you. It's 'real' as long as you are here dreaming, but in an absolute sense it is unreal, like a fleeting dream of the collective subconscious. Or something. I am part of your subjective perceptions of me. We probably need to experience this as 'real', though, for some purpose hitherto unknown. But it will be alright. Suffering is an illusion, but embedded in the illusion we cannot see that, and thus we suffer it.

 

[CTB Dream]

vry sry know rndm make trama make awful stay alllife no ablty rmv this v awful life cncpt stay long long year trama stay situ worse, this all loop all trap awfil this know how me injury damage rndm now stay alllife only way escp ctb

 

[Sluggish_Slump]

I don't think that anybody enjoys life that much because you always get to eventually see everybody's ugly side if you're with them long enough. "Misery loves company", if they are gritting their teeth everyday to wake up to a pointless existence and drag themselves from place to place, then they expect that from you as well.

 

[MrShino]

The living for 55+ more years is the scariest part. I don't wanna have to do this for that much longer. The monotony and routine of my life is torturous. The obsessiveness makes it worse. My predicament is of my own making though, so regardless of some traumas I have had, I chose this. Just as I will chose to ctb when it is time. Life is never fair.

Perhaps life here doesn't need to be fair, only we need to be fair. We cannot compromise ourselves. When it's time, it's time.

 

[bigdog]

Yeah it can be very painful experience

 

[Pluto]

The weird thing about life is that there isn't actually a good answer to the questions around pointlessness.

When people are having positive experiences, engaging in enjoyable activities and so on, the question of "What's the point of all this?" does not arise at all. People only ask such questions when they are suffering.

Another way of saying it is that the ones who ask the question never find an answer, whereas the ones who have the answer would never ask the question.

 

[ptolemaea]

i'm already so exhausted, i can't imagine wanting to go on for another 50 years. i don't understand why people desire relationships, marriage or having children. life seems so tiring, why add any more burdens? there's no meaning to any of this.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I sometimes get this idea and feeling that I don't exist, neither do you exist and nothing exists. It's so real it makes sense. Although I always wonder what is it that exists which makes me think I exist. When I think this way everyone thinks I have a mental health problem and I explain that I made them up and I made everything up. Even the smallest of things like birds singing, cars passing by. I know it's all an imagination. The imagination is so real such that it's real and I have to sometimes doubt if it's not real. Think about it.

I do definitely think that consciousness is weird. I'm pretty sure that it's that that makes us actually realise that we exist. I expect our brains have evolved to be like this though. It's probably an evolutionary advantage to be able to realise that you exist in a world that you have some power over. That you not only fear death instinctively but now- you have developed an ego- a sense that you are unique and special and need to be preserved. (Although, it has backfired I suppose in the depressed brain...)

Still- I guess I've never quite understood the whole- nothing exists point of view. YOUR perspective is reliant on you- certainly. When we go to sleep, when we eventually die- OUR own little recording device of the world we experienced will presumably die with us- but the world won't end! Birds will still be singing in the trees, cars will still be passing by- other people will be experiencing that.

If ALL humans die out- won't other life go on? (Hopefully.) Does a cockroach only exist if a human sees it? If you see it? If a planet doesn't have any form of life on it- does that mean it doesn't exist?

Sometimes I wonder if life would be simpler without consciousness. If we just did stuff rather than thinking about it all the time.

 

[Pluto]

Still- I guess I've never quite understood the whole- nothing exists point of view. YOUR perspective is reliant on you- certainly. When we go to sleep, when we eventually die- OUR own little recording device of the world we experienced will presumably die with us- but the world won't end! Birds will still be singing in the trees, cars will still be passing by- other people will be experiencing that.

This is the commonsense perspective. Everyone will normally agree on it unquestioningly, except for people who have gone through an awakening.

When we talk about the future and what might happen, we are really talking about the present moment in which we are accessing an idea called 'the future'. When we talk about other people, birds and trees that are not actually in our immediate experience, we are also talking about thoughts/ideas/beliefs/images in the mind. It is possible to picture an apple in one's mind, but can it be eaten? Is it ever real?

Even when we are addressing objects and other people which are in our immediate experience, we do not do so directly. We have many layers and filters through which we interface with the world, and the brain does a lot of processing that modifies the raw data coming from the senses. If enough of these layers are removed, or in moments of insight, the experience shifts and the normal sense of self is exposed as a mere appearance, a bit like the imaginary apple. Ultimately, all sense of separation, including space and time, are exposed as having never been real.

 

[Forever Sleep]

This is the commonsense perspective. Everyone will normally agree on it unquestioningly, except for people who have gone through an awakening.

When we talk about the future and what might happen, we are really talking about the present moment in which we are accessing an idea called 'the future'. When we talk about other people, birds and trees that are not actually in our immediate experience, we are also talking about thoughts/ideas/beliefs/images in the mind. It is possible to picture an apple in one's mind, but can it be eaten? Is it ever real?

Even when we are addressing objects and other people which are in our immediate experience, we do not do so directly. We have many layers and filters through which we interface with the world, and the brain does a lot of processing that modifies the raw data coming from the senses. If enough of these layers are removed, or in moments of insight, the experience shifts and the normal sense of self is exposed as a mere appearance, a bit like the imaginary apple. Ultimately, all sense of separation, including space and time, are exposed as having never been real.

Interesting stuff. So- do unicorns and dragons exist IN THE SAME WAY as birds and apples? I can IMAGINE all sorts of creatures- it doesn't mean they exist. I can DREAM that I'm being eaten by a shark. Or- I can ACTUALLY be eaten by a shark and die. Did both events ACTUALLY happen?

If nothing is real- nothing really matters then. I won't starve to death if I stop eating because the food isn't real. Neither is my digestive tract. Neither is the agony I will go through while I starve. If emotions aren't real- WHY are we choosing to feel depressed? If none of it matters- wouldn't we choose to feel happy? If none of it is real- why are we feeling anything at all?

 

[Pluto]

Interesting stuff. So- do unicorns and dragons exist IN THE SAME WAY as birds and apples? I can IMAGINE all sorts of creatures- it doesn't mean they exist. I can DREAM that I'm being eaten by a shark. Or- I can ACTUALLY be eaten by a shark and die. Did both events ACTUALLY happen?

The way these questions are addressed in Indian philosophy, there are three states: waking, dream and deep sleep. Then there is a fourth state (consciousness) which the other three appear and disappear in. And yet, only the fourth state is real. Thus, the only difference between a dream and the waking state is that the latter has a sense of continuity. From the perspective of pure consciousness, all are mere appearances, like various shows coming and going on a television, none of which affects the viewer in the slightest.

If nothing is real- nothing really matters then. I won't starve to death if I stop eating because the food isn't real. Neither is my digestive tract. Neither is the agony I will go through while I starve. If emotions aren't real- WHY are we choosing to feel depressed? If none of it matters- wouldn't we choose to feel happy? If none of it is real- why are we feeling anything at all?

From the perspective that we are speaking about, nobody is choosing to feel depressed because there is no individual with the capacity to make that choice. There only appears to be, until the underlying magic trick is exposed as smoke and mirrors. It can be said that emotions appear and disappear, equivalent to passing weather patterns. The experience is completely different when they are not identified with, as nobody is a victim of them; nobody is running around trying to keep the good emotions and discard the bad.

Pain and suffering are normally experienced by people as if they were real, and nothing motivates a search for the ultimate truth of reality like despair. But the one who embarks on the journey to discover his/her true nature will not be there anymore when that truth is revealed. During the process, the body usually goes through an intense physiological response of panic and fear of death, lasting several minutes, followed by the greatest peace and tranquility imaginable.

It gets messy to talk about beyond a certain point, and there's no use being intellectual when the direct experience is possible. We could respond to questions with 'there is no why' and 'there is no we', etc. But the place to direct attention is the sense of 'I'. The unquestionable life force within you that is aware that you exist at all. Normally it is tightly entangled with a sense of being a person in a body who has to battle with a difficult world. Looking closely in direct experience, in the immediate present moment, via the question of 'Who am I?', can help to untangle the unreal from the real.

 

[Homo erectus]

The way these questions are addressed in Indian philosophy, there are three states: waking, dream and deep sleep. Then there is a fourth state (consciousness) which the other three appear and disappear in. And yet, only the fourth state is real. Thus, the only difference between a dream and the waking state is that the latter has a sense of continuity. From the perspective of pure consciousness, all are mere appearances, like various shows coming and going on a television, none of which affects the viewer in the slightest.


From the perspective that we are speaking about, nobody is choosing to feel depressed because there is no individual with the capacity to make that choice. There only appears to be, until the underlying magic trick is exposed as smoke and mirrors. It can be said that emotions appear and disappear, equivalent to passing weather patterns. The experience is completely different when they are not identified with, as nobody is a victim of them; nobody is running around trying to keep the good emotions and discard the bad.

Pain and suffering are normally experienced by people as if they were real, and nothing motivates a search for the ultimate truth of reality like despair. But the one who embarks on the journey to discover his/her true nature will not be there anymore when that truth is revealed. During the process, the body usually goes through an intense physiological response of panic and fear of death, lasting several minutes, followed by the greatest peace and tranquility imaginable.

It gets messy to talk about beyond a certain point, and there's no use being intellectual when the direct experience is possible. We could respond to questions with 'there is no why' and 'there is no we', etc. But the place to direct attention is the sense of 'I'. The unquestionable life force within you that is aware that you exist at all. Normally it is tightly entangled with a sense of being a person in a body who has to battle with a difficult world. Looking closely in direct experience, in the immediate present moment, via the question of 'Who am I?', can help to untangle the unreal from the real.

Yes, the physical world is just one mode of consciousness. LSD, obd, nde people often report ego death, consciousness without a subjective viewpoint.

 

[bigdog]

Interesting stuff. So- do unicorns and dragons exist IN THE SAME WAY as birds and apples? I can IMAGINE all sorts of creatures- it doesn't mean they exist. I can DREAM that I'm being eaten by a shark. Or- I can ACTUALLY be eaten by a shark and die. Did both events ACTUALLY happen?

If nothing is real- nothing really matters then. I won't starve to death if I stop eating because the food isn't real. Neither is my digestive tract. Neither is the agony I will go through while I starve. If emotions aren't real- WHY are we choosing to feel depressed? If none of it matters- wouldn't we choose to feel happy? If none of it is real- why are we feeling anything at all?

Yeah there are definitely material things that do exists. That is why I never understood this spiritual realm. They always say bullshit but when certain material needs aren't met than there can't be any spiritual shit.

 

[FuneralCry]

To me, life certainly is such a terrible concept, life is nothing more than a cruel burden that was so selfishly forced on us by people who chose to do the unacceptable and unnecessary thing of choosing to procreate. Life certainly is the most futile process, where only suffering, loss and decay is inevitable, I could never be delusional enough to want to exist in this world filled with potential for endless harm and risks.

The existence of life truly is something horrific to me, it's a cruel mistake that nobody deserved to be burdened with. It's undeniable that life in itself is the true problem and it really is so insane to me when people label those who have awareness as being "mentally ill" and want to lock them in psych wards. No the true delusional thing is seeing the way that life is as being acceptable and wanting to suffer. There really was never a need for life to exist, it's tragic how it does exist.

 

[bigdog]

To me, life certainly is such a terrible concept, life is nothing more than a cruel burden that was so selfishly forced on us by people who chose to do the unacceptable and unnecessary thing of choosing to procreate. Life certainly is the most futile process, where only suffering, loss and decay is inevitable, I could never be delusional enough to want to exist in this world filled with potential for endless harm and risks.

The existence of life truly is something horrific to me, it's a cruel mistake that nobody deserved to be burdened with. It's undeniable that life in itself is the true problem and it really is so insane to me when people label those who have awareness as being "mentally ill" and want to lock them in psych wards. No the true delusional thing is seeing the way that life is as being acceptable and wanting to suffer. There really was never a need for life to exist, it's tragic how it does exist.

Like someone posted before when you engage in something pleasurable than you don't think about it. But when qualify of life is bad than yes non existence is better

 

[RUPA]

@Pluto I'd like to express how grateful I am always for your amazing insight!

This world is basically a dream created by one's own mind(thoughts). Your own world that your own mind creates. Your thoughts of discrimination, particularization, interpretation and delusion arouse emotions, feelings and sometimes physical sensations as well. Your thoughts and emotions are interconnected and mutually influence each other, and they form your own 'perception and attitude' about this world and that itself is your world you are living in.

That's why it's called that we are living a life means we are all dreaming a dream. Dreams of all sorts of thinking(beliefs, imaginations, judgements, analyses, interpretations, perceptions) and emotions and feelings associated with that thinking. Realizing that you are dreaming while in a dream (that is, your life - lucid dream) is awakening and beginning of enlightenment.

The dreams we have while sleeping at night and the dreams we go through in our lives are different in this sense. The former is experienced vividly within the dream like the reality we are living in this material world, but once we wake up, we realize it was just a dream, we don't think much about it. The latter, however, is something we know (if you are sufficiently awakened) is no different than a night's dream (like lightning, mirage, foam bubbles, shadow, illusion, ghost, clouds in the sky... etc, which constantly comes and goes in accordance with universal karmic causation and condition) but continue to live in those dreams(lives) until physical death, being (fully or partially depending on your level of awakened consciousness) aware that we are dreaming.

 

[TAW122]

To me, I see sentience and life as an unwanted event that one has no say/control/consent towards and just "happens" through circumstances outside of one's control. That is the most objective perspective that I can come up with.

No one alive today chose to be alive, but ever since they became sentient, then the people around them, society, government, and institutions instill the idea that sentience is good, thus most people who are alive (after indoctrination and being instilled that living is good, coupled with of course, the SI ( survival instinct), a biological mechanism in all living things) believe that life is better than nonexistence. It is only people like us and the vast minority of humans that have enough self-introspection to think for themselves that we break out of the indoctrination and see life objectively for what it is. Society and the masses are really afraid of the truth and hates people like us because we upset and (can potentially) destroy their view on existence, so they do everything and just about anything that can to silence, censor, and persecute us through their institutions (health, government, education, and legal system).

 

[OceanBlue]

I'm really grappling with the fact that I don't understand why anyone bothers living. I feel like I should see a doctor, but it might be a kind of horrible idea because the last time I called a helpline I was almost sectioned. Please help.

Please just don't start thinking that something is wrong with you. You have awareness that most doctors don't, they will label you with some kind of disorder because they don't notice the obvious.. that it's weird being an animal, that it's not normal to exist on some rock in space without knowing why, that existence is pointless and harmful. There is no medicine that will reduce your awareness, so you're stuck with it - you can now observe how insane the majority of humans are (and they think they're the normal ones )

 

[niki wonoto]

Distractions keep most people from asking the big questions about meaning of life and having the existential crisis.

Most people in this world are "normally" just simply too distracted with their everyday, daily routines, chores, work, etc etc etc. And then afterwards. comes the various entertainment that also distract them all. Their minds are always constantly preoccupied with all those things everyday. That's why most people rarely ever think (nor want to think) about all those 'existential' or 'big questions' about life, meaning of life, etc etc etc. Heck, most people probably would say thinking all those 'big questions' is just a waste of time, energy, & efforts. Especially when a lot of people in this world still believe in religions, which obviously always give them 'comforts' & 'hope'. But even a lot of atheists or agnostics are also so engrossed in their "YOLO" hedonism in this world (ie: "enjoy life! you live only once! be grateful!" etc etc etc; I'm sure you've heard them all), that they probably also rarely ever think deeply about existence.

But for people like us, it's actually ironic & tragic (such is life), that the more we actually learn, realize, & think about all those 'deeper' things, the more we had the existential crisis, and then got even more anxious, or depressed. The more we know, the more we suffer. Ridiculous existence, isn't it?

That's why I've always loved this quote, and even become my favorite quote of all time now:

"I think human consciousness is a tragic misstep in human evolution. We became too self aware; nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself. We are creatures that should not exist by natural law. We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self, a secretion of sensory experience and feeling, programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody's nobody." - Rust Cohle (from "True Detective" series)

 

[Chemical Animal]

Most people in this world are "normally" just simply too distracted with their everyday, daily routines, chores, work, etc etc etc. And then afterwards. comes the various entertainment that also distract them all. Their minds are always constantly preoccupied with all those things everyday. That's why most people rarely ever think (nor want to think) about all those 'existential' or 'big questions' about life, meaning of life, etc etc etc.

I don't know about anyone else, but the thoughts about (the meaning of) life and (the purpose of) existence came through my mind because during my teenage years and early adulthood I've been frequently deprived of all those "distractions" for a variety of reasons.

Being an awkward kid, ridiculed and ignored during school days, having a dysfunctional family, having a difficult personality and niche/random taste in stuff, being unable of having a (normal) social life due to autism/social anxiety, being rejected in job opportunities, wasting years on college/education only to be still unemployed and having to resort to a minimum wage job where I never got any promotion, seeking mental health support too late etc etc. All of this kept me in a miserable state of mind (and deprived of a "distracting" routine), and from that to starting to question my purpose in this world and wondering if my life has any meaning/worth at all was just one shy step.

I don't think that anybody enjoys life that much because you always get to eventually see everybody's ugly side if you're with them long enough. "Misery loves company", if they are gritting their teeth everyday to wake up to a pointless existence and drag themselves from place to place, then they expect that from you as well.

From my perspective most people have shitty lives, but since they generally have a normal/healthy social life (and a support network), are able to distract themselves from existencial questions, and hold the belief that life is inherently valuable and justifies itself, they manage to make their existences way more bearable and assume that everyone else can do the same. And if you dare pointing out that one's life is shitty/a living hell and asking how can they stand it, you'll probably be perceived as a creepy, nihilistic edgelord.

 

[tiaralamb]

you'll probably be perceived as a creepy, nihilistic edgelord.

that's exactly it. so much stigma in response to one question its insane. people are almost offended when I ask why my life is valuable. i made the mistake of asking my grandmother, and she went on a long monologue about how God has given me life and a chance to enter his kingdom, how I should be grateful, how sacrifices were made for me to be raised with a roof over my head, etc. etc. etc.

by the time she was finished I just felt guilty and like an unworthy burden. sometimes it feels so transactional, like your parents and family are investing in you, and to ctb is to cheat them out of their returns. not only money but love and compassion.

"how could they do this to me? how could they kill themselves? i loved them so much!" no-one considers the possibility that lack of love isnt the issue. love saves everyone. love solves everything. love always prevails.

if love and a leaflet on mental health awareness day isn't enough to convince you that the hell that surrounds you is actually wonderful, it's decided. you're a nihilistic creep.

 

[nureinFuchs]

I feel you, I'm so used to this feeling that It's almost natural I just try not to think to much about it.

And a lot of cigarettes

 

[Euthanza]

It's just a dream. Wake up.
Remember, when you 'wake up' here in this reality, the ego just puts all these traumas and subjective experiences together and reinforces it's belief that it is you. But when you are in deep sleep, this doesn't really exist does it? Where's this 'I' then?

"The world is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. The ride goes up and down, around and around, it has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly colored, and it's very loud, and it's fun for a while. Many people have been on the ride a long time, and they begin to wonder, "Hey, is this real, or is this just a ride?" And other people have remembered, and they come back to us and say, "Hey, don't worry; don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride." And we … kill those people. "Shut him up! I've got a lot invested in this ride, shut him up! Look at my furrows of worry, look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill the good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok … But it doesn't matter, because it's just a ride."

You remind me of these two of my favorite persons