Discussion Nobody should have to do any research on methods of suicide

[Daxter_87]

Having to research information to be able to CTB is a chore. People who find it annoying aren't lazy, nobody should be forced to do this. Everyone should be provided with a service that allows them to die painlessly, without the person having to make any effort at all.

All current methods of suicide require you to gather a lot of information and plan everything meticulously. This is simply not acceptable. Many people are too tired/disabled/etc. to do this properly, and they are absolutely right to complain.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yeah- I agree. So many things would be different- better if assisted suicide was legalised. So many resources would be saved. There are so many benefits to it.

Don't get me wrong- I'm not personally of the opinion that just anyone can walk into a clinic and be euthanized right there and then. I think there should be a procedure and regulations. Personally- for me I think: over 18 (under that age if debhilitating health issues are present,) of sound mind, 6 month waiting list in which time they are OFFERED help (but not obliged to accept it.) Preferably- families should be informed and support the decision.

But yeah- it would mean:

- Fewer risky atrempts would be made by individuals resulting in horrible injuries.
- Less trauma to people having to witness public suicides like train decapitation or jumping.
- No trauma for people having to discover bodies and no clean up.
- No money spent on police investigations after a 'suspicious' death. No need for investigations like the current one into Kenneth Law.
- Greater opportunity to actually 'help' people- if people HAVE to have an assessment before being offered assisted dying- they absolutely WOULD have access to (hopefully) good quality support and treatment SHOULD THEY CHOOSE to utilize it. Rather than some shitty helpline each time they Googled something.
- Hopefully with less stigma around suicide- families could be informed. Even councelled to help support them understand the decision and support them during the difficult time.
- Loved ones could actually be with the person to say goodbye- rather than having no clue, or arriving at the hospital too late.
- People could donate their organs to help others who want to live survive.
- For our cold hearted governments- you'd be legitamately getting rid of the people who have no intention to pay into your corrupt system- just think of all that money you could be saving not having to pay out benefits.
- For the environment- a tiny sigh of relief as there are a few less people draining precious resources and polluting.

Personally- I see far fewer reasons as to why assisted suicide is 'bad':

- Religious reasons- ok- fine but not everyone holds the same beliefs. We're not even obliged to now- I don't see why this should apply to EVERYONE.
- The possibility of coercion- I'd say that was a real risk- which is why it would need to be regulated and have strict procedures.
- If the governments run these programes- it may seem- may actually transpire that offering assisted dying ends up easier- cheaper than offering people proper support. So- what's to stop them withdrawing even more support to 'push' people towards being euthanized? Maybe then- it should be run by independant companies (although the same thing could still happen I suppose.) That is a legitimate downside I'd say.
- Yes- for our cold hearted governments- they will be losing tax payers and consummers. They will also be ridding themselves of people who take more than they give. The jobs that would have gone towards looking after those people can now go to those employed by the suicide clinics to PROPERLY assess people and give an excellent level of support to those who want to try and 'recover'. As @TAW122 brilliantly argues- not just all being spent on trying to stop people who REALLY want out from going.

 

[CarambaAlbum]

To respond to @Forever Sleep I personally think that anyone over 18, regardless of being of sound mind, should be able to CTB no matter what. We already have too much people in this world and I think I can speak for some of us when I say that a lot of suicidal people are genuine burdens - either to their family or friends or even government functions like being homeless. Society would be better if there was a natural cull of people who can just leave and be done with all of this. Think about all those hospital beds and shelter rooms that could go to people who actually want to live.

 

[AQUA]

I actually think it's useful for those impulsive people that are going through a crisis, such as losing a job or a breakup etc, to have some delays!

You may ask, "Who are you to decide who should and should be allowed to die?"
To that, I say it is a permanent decision, so by adding some hurdles, the majority of the remaining people will be hard to sway of the idea.
Just look at the number of people that try (and fail) to OD, even though it doesn't take much digging to find out that the amount of od's that fail has a percentage in the low to mid-90s (%)
To add to that, there is nothing worse than reading about someone who had regretted what they were doing halfway through or wasn't educated enough on the method, which now are permanently disabled and in chronic pain because of it.
If they wanted to kill themselves before, they definitely want to do it now


It also discredits those of us that have been dedicated to learning everything we can because we have exhausted all other options.
See, this community isn't just for finding methods to ctb.
It is also about having a non-judging free space to confess our deepest traumas and troubles,
maybe even make friends with others who are goning through/have gone through similar things.
Friends they wouldn't have found if they didn't dig around a little.
Discredits those who have left not because they were frustrated with having to learn but because they didn't feel the need for it anymore.
It's amazing what a community of compassionate and wise people can do for you in terms of recovery!

Families and friends of loved ones can come here to understand why that person they held so dearly did what they did.
For the first time in human history, families don't have to be left in the dark.

When I say I LOVE this forum, I mean every word!
All thanks to the moderation team!
@RainAndSadness
@Myforevercharlie
@Despondent
@Dot
@Meretlein
@Pole
@_Minsk
@Kyrok
@leeloosnow
@nozomu
@FallenStar
@Nanami
@_smile_


​

 

[Forever Sleep]

To respond to @Forever Sleep I personally think that anyone over 18, regardless of being of sound mind, should be able to CTB no matter what. We already have too much people in this world and I think I can speak for some of us when I say that a lot of suicidal people are genuine burdens - either to their family or friends or even government functions like being homeless. Society would be better if there was a natural cull of people who can just leave and be done with all of this. Think about all those hospital beds and shelter rooms that could go to people who actually want to live.

Fair point. I guess what I'm refering to by 'sound of mind' is a clear understanding of the decision and its implications- which I imagine only the tinniest fraction of people may not be able to grasp. Personally I'd say mental illness for instance doesn't necessarily mean a person is incapable of assessing their situation and options. I personally don't think it would hurt to SUGGEST to someone it MAY be their (for example) depression making them feel like this. Still- it should still be up to the person as to how much treatment they are willing to try.

Obviously someone in a state of psychosis or someone who can't communicate but who's family seem suspiciously keen on them having the procedure need to be assessed more carefully!

I do understand what you mean and I do agree with it as a wider perspective. It's just practicality-wise. It's likely some families would want to sue if their loved one was given assisted suicide say when they were drunk and MAYBE didn't have a firm grasp of what they were doing. Also- a system that is TOO open allows the opportunity for families to 'legitimately' murder their unwanted relatives!

We all have different ideas on legalizing suicide though. Some people want very strict gatekeeping and rules. Others would seem to be happy with the idea of Nembutal vending machines on every street corner. I think a middle ground solution would be best... Allow those who want to leave to go but just make sure nothing murderous is going on.

I actually think it's useful for those impulsive people that are going through a crisis, such as losing a job or a breakup etc, to have some delays!

You may ask, "Who are you to decide who should and should be allowed to die?"
To that, I say it is a permanent decision, so by adding some hurdles, the majority of the remaining people will be hard to sway of the idea.
Just look at the number of people that try (and fail) to OD, even though it doesn't take much digging to find out that the amount of od's that fail has a percentage in the low to mid-90s (%)
To add to that, there is nothing worse than reading about someone who had regretted what they were doing halfway through or wasn't educated enough on the method, which now are permanently disabled and in chronic pain because of it.
If they wanted to kill themselves before, they definitely want to do it now


It also discredits those of us that have been dedicated to learning everything we can because we have exhausted all other options.
See, this community isn't just for finding methods to ctb.
It is also about having a non-judging free space to confess our deepest traumas and troubles.
Maybe even make friends with others who are gone through/have gone through similar things.
Friends they wouldn't have found if they didn't dig around a little.
Discredits those who have left not because they were frustrated with having to learn but because they didn't feel the need for it anymore.
It's amazing what a community of compassionate and wise people can do for you in terms of recovery!

Families and friends of loved ones can come here to understand why that person they held so dearly did what they did.
For the first time in human history, families don't have to be left in the dark.

When I say I LOVE this forum, I mean every word!
All thanks to the moderation team!
@RainAndSadness
@Myforevercharlie
@Despondent
@Dot
@Meretlein
@Pole
@_Minsk
@Kyrok
@leeloosnow
@nozomu
@FallenStar
@Nanami
@_smile_


​

I take your meaning but- wouldn't this be BETTER accomplished via a regulated assisted suicide programme? I happen to agree with you with regards to a waiting period- to stop impulsive attempts and to OFFER people assistance. So- imagine this place but without the need for method talk... That would be my ideal. Places you could openly discuss your thoughts and fears.

Some people who decide to take their life don't do research. They just head for the nearest bridge or cliff etc. Imagine if they had the choice to register with an assisted suicide clinic? They would HAVE to go through an assessment process and waiting period where they would be given access to resources like somewhere to talk openly. Some people likely CTB alone without even realising that such places exist at the moment.

Still- I ABSOLUTELY agree with your sentiment. Thank you to all our mods for this place and thank you to everyone who comes here to share their thoughts and support one another.

 

[CarambaAlbum]

Fair point. I guess what I'm refering to by 'sound of mind' is a clear understanding of the decision and its implications- which I imagine only the tinniest fraction of people may not be able to grasp. Personally I'd say mental illness for instance doesn't necessarily mean a person is incapable of assessing their situation and options. I personally don't think it would hurt to SUGGEST to someone it MAY be their (for example) depression making them feel like this. Still- it should still be up to the person as to how much treatment they are willing to try.

Obviously someone in a state of psychosis or someone who can't communicate but who's family seem suspiciously keen on them having the procedure need to be assessed more carefully!

I do understand what you mean and I do agree with it as a wider perspective. It's just practicality-wise. It's likely some families would want to sue if their loved one was given assisted suicide say when they were drunk and MAYBE didn't have a firm grasp of what they were doing. Also- a system that is TOO open allows the opportunity for families to 'legitimately' murder their unwanted relatives!

We all have different ideas on legalizing suicide though. Some people want very strict gatekeeping and rules. Others would seem to be happy with the idea of Nembutal vending machines on every street corner. I think a middle ground solution would be best... Allow those who want to leave to go but just make sure nothing murderous is going on.

Good points. I am definitely on the side of suicide vending machines but it is true that, with any system, someone is gonna try and cheat it to get away with doing something heinous. That's the sad reality of humanity, you will get people who target disabled kids by adopting them from poorly run orphanages or dog abusers looking to adopt more victims.

 

[deomlez]

Hmmm 2 ideas during i read this :

1 In US main people are not hurt by death penalty bit by assisted suicide. Not logical

2 yes it s a decision without roll back. But as giving life to a child, or get sterilized permanently (i d like to addb tatoo but it s not the same csq) . And so ? My body owns me. My choice, my responsability, my fails.

 

[Install-Gentoo]

Having to research information to be able to CTB is a chore. People who find it annoying aren't lazy, nobody should be forced to do this. Everyone should be provided with a service that allows them to die painlessly, without the person having to make any effort at all.

All current methods of suicide require you to gather a lot of information and plan everything meticulously. This is simply not acceptable. Many people are too tired/disabled/etc. to do this properly, and they are absolutely right to complain.

Maybe, but you have to consider impulsive actions or moments of mania or losing your mind. The fact that everything has to be meticulously planned means that the one doing so has enough time to consider if it's something they really want to do.
Having a service in place would still have some sort of waiting period or something in place to ensure that it's not a mistake.
This is why, in many American states, there is a waiting period between when you pay for a gun and when you receive it. They want to ensure that you don't buy a gun and commit a crime (not just suicide) on the same day, and hopefully you would have "cooled off" by the time you receive the gun in order to cancel your purchase.

 

[TheSilentPrincess]

Having to research information to be able to CTB is a chore. People who find it annoying aren't lazy, nobody should be forced to do this. Everyone should be provided with a service that allows them to die painlessly, without the person having to make any effort at all.

All current methods of suicide require you to gather a lot of information and plan everything meticulously. This is simply not acceptable. Many people are too tired/disabled/etc. to do this properly, and they are absolutely right to complain.

I totally agree, plus the world is overpopulated anyways.

 

[FuneralCry]

I see it as being inhumane how suicide is purposely made so difficult in this world, it's disgusting how we have to pay the price all because of people's harmful decision to procreate by existing in such a pro-suffering society.

To me it will always be unacceptable how despite the fact we had this burden so cruelly forced on us, there's no guaranteed, peaceful, reliable and instant way to leave for all human beings, we are all just destined to die anyway so it's beyond cruel to create so much unnecessary torture by trying to make existence into a prison. Nobody should have to do any research, and the fact that suicide is so unnecessarily complicated is just further proof that existence truly is so hellish.

 

[angel31]

I agree, that it is horrible that there is no easy and safe option, but I think making it a thing u have to look into kind of has its good sides too, because people have to look into it, which stops impulsive ctb and that people get to know more about their method, so they dont fuck it up… But of course it would be way better if smth like N would be available to everyone but the would maybe idk have to wait for like a month to get it?
I hope that makes sense…

 

[TAW122]

Yeah- I agree. So many things would be different- better if assisted suicide was legalised. So many resources would be saved. There are so many benefits to it.

Don't get me wrong- I'm not personally of the opinion that just anyone can walk into a clinic and be euthanized right there and then. I think there should be a procedure and regulations. Personally- for me I think: over 18 (under that age if debhilitating health issues are present,) of sound mind, 6 month waiting list in which time they are OFFERED help (but not obliged to accept it.) Preferably- families should be informed and support the decision.

But yeah- it would mean:

- Fewer risky atrempts would be made by individuals resulting in horrible injuries.
- Less trauma to people having to witness public suicides like train decapitation or jumping.
- No trauma for people having to discover bodies and no clean up.
- No money spent on police investigations after a 'suspicious' death. No need for investigations like the current one into Kenneth Law.
- Greater opportunity to actually 'help' people- if people HAVE to have an assessment before being offered assisted dying- they absolutely WOULD have access to (hopefully) good quality support and treatment SHOULD THEY CHOOSE to utilize it. Rather than some shitty helpline each time they Googled something.
- Hopefully with less stigma around suicide- families could be informed. Even councelled to help support them understand the decision and support them during the difficult time.
- Loved ones could actually be with the person to say goodbye- rather than having no clue, or arriving at the hospital too late.
- People could donate their organs to help others who want to live survive.
- For our cold hearted governments- you'd be legitamately getting rid of the people who have no intention to pay into your corrupt system- just think of all that money you could be saving not having to pay out benefits.
- For the environment- a tiny sigh of relief as there are a few less people draining precious resources and polluting.

Personally- I see far fewer reasons as to why assisted suicide is 'bad':

- Religious reasons- ok- fine but not everyone holds the same beliefs. We're not even obliged to now- I don't see why this should apply to EVERYONE.
- The possibility of coercion- I'd say that was a real risk- which is why it would need to be regulated and have strict procedures.
- If the governments run these programes- it may seem- may actually transpire that offering assisted dying ends up easier- cheaper than offering people proper support. So- what's to stop them withdrawing even more support to 'push' people towards being euthanized? Maybe then- it should be run by independant companies (although the same thing could still happen I suppose.) That is a legitimate downside I'd say.
- Yes- for our cold hearted governments- they will be losing tax payers and consummers. They will also be ridding themselves of people who take more than they give. The jobs that would have gone towards looking after those people can now go to those employed by the suicide clinics to PROPERLY assess people and give an excellent level of support to those who want to try and 'recover'. As @TAW122 brilliantly argues- not just all being spent on trying to stop people who REALLY want out from going.

Excellent post and very valid points. I agree with the mention that if a "cold-hearted government" not wanting to care for certain people, well they wouldn't be harmed by allowing legalized assisted suicide towards the people they don't want to support assuming that the people who don't want to contribute to the system also don't wish to live. This would be different from people who are willing to live, but forced to die when they otherwise wouldn't had they had better support.