Method Nitrogen vs Carbon Monoxide ( via GULPS generator)

[huphup]

I am planning to CTB and thinking of either nitrogen or CO. I want to do this in my car so I don't think that nitrogen would be the best for that because of transporting the cylinder. Also getting the cylinder seems like a pain, where as GULPS generator seems easier to hide. I am in Canada, any big differences between acquiring what you need for both? or just in general in terms of safety?

 

[xxxbmw]

I am planning to CTB and thinking of either nitrogen or CO. I want to do this in my car so I don't think that nitrogen would be the best for that because of transporting the cylinder. Also getting the cylinder seems like a pain, where as GULPS generator seems easier to hide. I am in Canada, any big differences between acquiring what you need for both? or just in general in terms of safety?

if you get an answer please message me. thanks

 

[UnwillingSavior]

I live in the US so idk how relevant my answer is to you, but I have the fill nitrogen setup and it's quite costly (~$300). It was relatively easy to acquire though, the tank was just a matter of powering through anxiety and talking to people/entertaining a conversation with the weld supply employees. The 40 cu ft tank is moderately heavy (~25-35 lbs?) and its about 1 m tall. The bag was easy to make and is comfortable. All of the gas equipment was easy to get and operate. Its not very well hidden though, I have it in a big cardboard box in my closet (not safe for the cylinder! It is not secured in a cage! would not recommend storing it this way like I am). I learned this method in the "Inert gas megathread". Please do more research here if considering.

I can't find anything about the "gulps generator" online but I have considered acquiring a "CO generator" as backup. This is done via sulphuric and formic acid, along with a "gas washing bottle" kit and a porous aeration device safe for use with formic acid & sulphuric acid fumes and a diluted base mixture (NaOH + Water); a stainless steel aeration device is safe I think for formic & sulphuric acid fumes, CO, and diluted NaOH. You want this kit because the acid fumes will hurt and burn, the kit will neutralize these fumes and expel the CO gas by itself. Id suggest tying two or three of these kits together to fully neutralize the fumes. The aeration device helps improve surface area contact of the fumes with the base (NaOH). All of these materials should be relatively easy to get and should not be that expensive (~$100-$150). Look at the "CO mega thread" for other people discussing this method. Definitely do your homework if choosing a method like this.

 

[huphup]

if you get an answer please message me. thanks

Hey, in terms of safety, I think that Nitrogen is safer for two main reasons:

1. There have been reports of effects that persist from carbon monoxide poisoning which start weeks after. This is not common from regular asphyxiation from my understanding.
2. Even if you have enough acid to make enough carbon monoxide, something could still go wrong where not enough CO is produced. Again, this would increase the likelihood of something going wrong.

Overall, inert gas is better because you can control how much will be asphyxiating you quite easily, reducing chances of not CTB and sustaining injury.

I live in the US so idk how relevant my answer is to you, but I have the fill nitrogen setup and it's quite costly (~$300). It was relatively easy to acquire though, the tank was just a matter of powering through anxiety and talking to people/entertaining a conversation with the weld supply employees. The 40 cu ft tank is moderately heavy (~25-35 lbs?) and its about 1 m tall. The bag was easy to make and is comfortable. All of the gas equipment was easy to get and operate. Its not very well hidden though, I have it in a big cardboard box in my closet (not safe for the cylinder! It is not secured in a cage! would not recommend storing it this way like I am). I learned this method in the "Inert gas megathread". Please do more research here if considering.

I can't find anything about the "gulps generator" online but I have considered acquiring a "CO generator" as backup. This is done via sulphuric and formic acid, along with a "gas washing bottle" kit and a porous aeration device safe for use with formic acid & sulphuric acid fumes and a diluted base mixture (NaOH + Water); a stainless steel aeration device is safe I think for formic & sulphuric acid fumes, CO, and diluted NaOH. You want this kit because the acid fumes will hurt and burn, the kit will neutralize these fumes and expel the CO gas by itself. Id suggest tying two or three of these kits together to fully neutralize the fumes. The aeration device helps improve surface area contact of the fumes with the base (NaOH). All of these materials should be relatively easy to get and should not be that expensive (~$100-$150). Look at the "CO mega thread" for other people discussing this method. Definitely do your homework if choosing a method like this.

Yes, thanks for this comparison! I was actually thinking of using a air stone (like they use in aquariums) in the mixture to create tiny bubbles and help neutralize the gas. I am leaning towards more inert at the moment I have some $$ to spend towards this cause haha

 

[Intoxicated]

Overall, inert gas is better because you can control how much will be asphyxiating you quite easily

Controlling the amount of CO inside a plastic bag doesn't seem difficult either. If you collect nearly 5 L of the produced gas or 1/3 of the bag's volume, this would be more than enough to kill you. Sealing the bag around the neck additionally cuts the access to atmospheric O2, so your chances to survive without an intervention of other people would be quite small.

There are more probable complications with acids, such as acid spills and inhalation of acidic fumes that should be carefully avoided. I'd rather replace volatile formic acid with sodium formate which is a much more safe substance to deal with.