Story Nitrogen method failed

[Phoebe67]

Hello every one,

I come here to share my experience on the nitrogen method and maybe find some answers.

I bought an 8L bottle of nitrogen, as well as the [redacted] flow and an NRB mask. Two days ago I tried to CTB. I set the flow to 15L/min, lit the bottle and put the mask on my face. I took a deep breath at the start. There were times early on when I felt like I was suffocating and I took the mask off. After, I realized it was more anxiety than anything. By putting the mask back on, I increased to 20L/min and continued. Unfortunately, I didn't leave. I felt I was in a secondary state exactly the same feeling as the first few seconds just before general anesthesia. I thought maybe my mask wasn't airtight so I pressed the mask to my face, taking deep breaths. Nothing. I stayed like that for about 1 hour and the bottle was empty.

Do you think the bottle contained oxygen? On the welding site they mentioned that the bottle was 100% nitrogen.

Thank you all !

 

[jodes2]

I had similar problems. The first time I tried gas, nothing happened, it was as if I was breathing oxygen until it ran out. The second time with a different cannister I felt like I was suffocating and had to rip it off every time. Sucks. But now I have SN

 

[CTB Dream]

Not know detail this most like not pure nitro, pure very ctb . Better air Manu not welding 99.9% process nitro generator

 

[GasMonkey]

You were breathing air/oxygen for sure.
The NRB mask is not designed to protect you from the external gas.
There is no suffocation sensation when breathing pure Nitrogen.
You should have tested the purity of the gas with an O₂ analyzer.

 

[outrider567]

Hello every one,

I come here to share my experience on the nitrogen method and maybe find some answers.

I bought an 8L bottle of nitrogen, as well as the escmode flow and an NRB mask. Two days ago I tried to CTB. I set the flow to 15L/min, lit the bottle and put the mask on my face. I took a deep breath at the start. There were times early on when I felt like I was suffocating and I took the mask off. After, I realized it was more anxiety than anything. By putting the mask back on, I increased to 20L/min and continued. Unfortunately, I didn't leave. I felt I was in a secondary state exactly the same feeling as the first few seconds just before general anesthesia. I thought maybe my mask wasn't airtight so I pressed the mask to my face, taking deep breaths. Nothing. I stayed like that for about 1 hour and the bottle was empty.

Do you think the bottle contained oxygen? On the welding site they mentioned that the bottle was 100% nitrogen.

Thank you all !

Did you test it first using an Oximeter? My oxygen number dropped from 98 to 45 after just 5 deep breaths of my Nitrogen

I had similar problems. The first time I tried gas, nothing happened, it was as if I was breathing oxygen until it ran out. The second time with a different cannister I felt like I was suffocating and had to rip it off every time. Sucks. But now I have SN

Did you test it with an Oximeter first? My oxygen number collapsed after just a few breaths of my Nitrogen

 

[k1w1]

Hello every one,

I come here to share my experience on the nitrogen method and maybe find some answers.

I bought an 8L bottle of nitrogen, as well as the [redacted] flow and an NRB mask. Two days ago I tried to CTB. I set the flow to 15L/min, lit the bottle and put the mask on my face. I took a deep breath at the start. There were times early on when I felt like I was suffocating and I took the mask off. After, I realized it was more anxiety than anything. By putting the mask back on, I increased to 20L/min and continued. Unfortunately, I didn't leave. I felt I was in a secondary state exactly the same feeling as the first few seconds just before general anesthesia. I thought maybe my mask wasn't airtight so I pressed the mask to my face, taking deep breaths. Nothing. I stayed like that for about 1 hour and the bottle was empty.

Do you think the bottle contained oxygen? On the welding site they mentioned that the bottle was 100% nitrogen.

Thank you all !

That's bad luck Phoebe & I would say that you are dealing with some frustration among other things. You dont need your method shot down in flames here but if we fail the first time, you do it differently after a careful analysis. This came up pretty quickly "A non-rebreather mask typically delivers 70 to 100 percent oxygen. Most non-rebreather masks don't form a perfect seal on your face, in which case you'll also breathe in some of the air around you". There ARE better masks, there are pure food grade nitro tanks avail. There s a comprehensive tech on the site. Best

 

[daveyb]

I'm currently setting up this system and can't seem to find a suitable full face diving mask, I have the Nitrogen tank diving reg and the tank regulator on its way but can't seem to find a suitable full face diving mask. Does anybody have any ideas?

 

[GasMonkey]

I'm currently setting up this system and can't seem to find a suitable full face diving mask, I have the Nitrogen tank diving reg and the tank regulator on its way but can't seem to find a suitable full face diving mask. Does anybody have any ideas?

The optimal SCUBA implementation is with a PP (Positive Pressure) demand valve to simulate the behaviour of an SCBA (to maintain a positive pressure inside the mask at all times, so is physically impossible for the external air to enter the mask, which guarantees a successful CTB). The problem with SCUBA is that the PP demand valve+mask combo is very expensive (around $1000).

Also, it will require the use of an air-to-nitrogen adapter, to be able to connect the SCUBA regulator (1st stage) to a Nitrogen cylinder. This adapter is only available in the US and EU, and the US version is very expensive. Generally, it is unrecommended to use adapters on high pressure applications (200bar), but I wouldn't worry about it since it has already been proven to work by SlovakGuy and LetzteAusfahrt.

Most demand valves are Non-PP (Non Positive Pressure) since that's the preferred option of most experienced divers and are cheaper than PP ones, but that's not optimal to CTB, since opening the valve requires an inspiratory effort (the rest of the time is closed, like during exhalation) which is potentially problematic with shallow breathing once you are unconscious, and the seal is totally dependant on the mask->skin contact surface being airtight (which usually is). The potential problems with shallow breathing were confirmed in a SCUBAPRO e-mail and reported by @Andross01 on his own tests, where he found his Non-PP SCUBA demand valve unresponsive when breathing volume was not enough to activate it.

None of these problems exists on PP, since the PP maintains a perfect seal at all times and doesn't require any inspiratory effort (the demand valve is open at all times, but only pumping the exact amount of gas needed).

The best option (and overall best CTB method available) is SCBA, which you can build yourself (cheaper option) or buy the entire kit ready to use from the Canadian source (expensive but immediate).

 

[Wunderkind]

The optimal SCUBA implementation is with a PP (Positive Pressure) demand valve to simulate the behaviour of an SCBA (to maintain a positive pressure inside the mask at all times, so is physically impossible for the external air to enter the mask, which guarantess a successful CTB). The problem with SCUBA is that the PP demand valve+mask combo is very expensive (around $1000).

Also, it will require the use of an air-to-nitrogen adapter, to be able to connect the SCUBA regulator (1st stage) to a Nitrogen cylinder. This adapter is only available in the US and EU, and the US version is very expensive. Generally, it is unrecommended to use adapters on high pressure applications (200bar), but I wouldn't worry about it since it has already been been proven to work by SlovakGuy and LetzteAusfahrt.

Most demand valves are Non-PP (Non Positive Pressure) since that's the preferred option of most experienced divers and are cheaper than PP ones, but that's not optimal to CTB, since opening the valve requires an inspiratory effort (the rest of the time is closed, like during exhalation) which is potentially problematic with shallow breathing once you are unconscious, and the seal is totally dependant on the mask->skin contact surface being airtight (which usually is). The potential problems with shallow breathing were confirmed in a SCUBAPRO e-mail and reported by @Andross01 on his own tests, where he found his Non-PP SCUBA demand valve unresponsive when breathing volume was not enough to activate it.

None of this problems exists on PP, since the PP makes maintains a perfect seal at all times and doesn't require any inspiratory effort (the demand valve is open at all times, but only pumping the exact amount of gas needed).

The best option (and overall best CTB method available) is SCBA, which you can build yourself (cheaper option) or buy the entire kit ready to use from the Canadian source (expensive but immediate).

This is very valuable information. Thank you for your work, it helps a lot! I have a simple question. If it is not possible to purchase and use a mask with a breathing apparatus, what would you advise? What is the design of the Exit Bag?

 

[GasMonkey]

If it is not possible to purchase and use a mask with a breathing apparatus, what would you advise? What is the design of the Exit Bag?

The pattern proposed by the PPeH is probably the best one.

 

[TF64]

The optimal SCUBA implementation is with a PP (Positive Pressure) demand valve to simulate the behaviour of an SCBA (to maintain a positive pressure inside the mask at all times, so is physically impossible for the external air to enter the mask, which guarantees a successful CTB). The problem with SCUBA is that the PP demand valve+mask combo is very expensive (around $1000).

Also, it will require the use of an air-to-nitrogen adapter, to be able to connect the SCUBA regulator (1st stage) to a Nitrogen cylinder. This adapter is only available in the US and EU, and the US version is very expensive. Generally, it is unrecommended to use adapters on high pressure applications (200bar), but I wouldn't worry about it since it has already been proven to work by SlovakGuy and LetzteAusfahrt.

Most demand valves are Non-PP (Non Positive Pressure) since that's the preferred option of most experienced divers and are cheaper than PP ones, but that's not optimal to CTB, since opening the valve requires an inspiratory effort (the rest of the time is closed, like during exhalation) which is potentially problematic with shallow breathing once you are unconscious, and the seal is totally dependant on the mask->skin contact surface being airtight (which usually is). The potential problems with shallow breathing were confirmed in a SCUBAPRO e-mail and reported by @Andross01 on his own tests, where he found his Non-PP SCUBA demand valve unresponsive when breathing volume was not enough to activate it.

None of these problems exists on PP, since the PP maintains a perfect seal at all times and doesn't require any inspiratory effort (the demand valve is open at all times, but only pumping the exact amount of gas needed).

The best option (and overall best CTB method available) is SCBA, which you can build yourself (cheaper option) or buy the entire kit ready to use from the Canadian source (expensive but immediate).

Do you have information on how to build the SCBA setup or where to obtain the setup from the Canadian source?

 

[GasMonkey]

Do you have information on how to build the SCBA setup

For your region (CGA-580) the only option is getting a CGA-346 SCBA and connection it to a Nitrogen cylinder using a CGA346-to-CGA580 adapter. Note that there are also SCBAs in your region that are CGA-347 but there is no air-to-nitrogen adapter for that connection.
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where to obtain the setup from the Canadian source?

That source doesn't exists anymore.

 

[TF64]

For your region (CGA-580) the only option is getting a CGA-346 SCBA and connection it to a Nitrogen cylinder using a CGA346-to-CGA580 adapter. Note that there are also SCBAs in your region that are CGA-347 but there is no air-to-nitrogen adapter for that connection.
​

That source doesn't exists anymore.

The mask I was looking at is an Ocean Reef Neptune Space G which has a regulator that uses DIN. Are you saying there are no CGC-580 to DIN adapters?

 

[GasMonkey]

escMode was the only supplier of the only real solid 1-piece DIN#13 to CGA-580 adapter:


There are some SCUBA shops that have lesser quality adapters that use 2 adapters together:
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