Discussion National pride, and lack of.

[Sprite_Geist]

I do not wish for this thread to be overly political, and the question is more about the social side of the topic. Anyway...

Does anyone else dislike the concept of nationality and "national pride" that comes with it?

Nationality is supposed to be an integral part of your identity according to some, but for me, personally, it never has been. People are just people; I try not to see it as a factor when being around other people. I also do not think that I should support everything that my country does, or have to support the culture that its society has either. It is a similar concept to blood-related family in that you have no choice to be born into it, but you are expected to show loyalty and love for them no matter what. Though saying all of this makes me feel weird which is why this question is being asked - to see if anyone else feels the same.

One argument in favour of national pride is that it brings people (of the same nation) together; however from personal experience this is not always true. For example: the majority of people that live in the same local area as me have the same nationality as me, but this does not mean that everybody automatically gets along, and it does not mean that they are kind toward everyone else in the world who shares the same nationality. In fact there are a few individuals who have been (and still are) pretty awful towards me and others - bullies basically. In reality it only brings you together with other people if you fit in. In general I have gotten along better with individuals from other parts of the world than with people at home. Sometimes I feel like an outsider when around my own countrymen; which is why I think basing your whole identity around a nationality is silly, because it does not take into account other factors such as personality which can be influenced by sources other than just where you were born.

If someone from your country does something brilliant others will then often say: "they make me so proud to be part of *insert nation/country here*" ...But why? Why do you take pride in the accomplishments of another individual just because they were born in the same geographical location as you by chance? Surely if somebody makes an invaluable contribution that will affect the whole world then it is a proud day for humanity as a whole? Plus what does that persons nationality have to do with their contributions anyway? To me it comes across as collective narcissism.

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

National pride is just another version of herd mentality in my eyes. I am not going to value the country I was born in or live in simply because someone else says I should, nor will I judge someone based on their nationality.

My narcissistic cow of a mother use to berate me for not speaking in her native tongue when there was no benefit to me when I lived in a entirely different country. Your nationality has nothing to do with your individual personality or actions; it's no wonder I don't get along with many people because they're one dimensional idiots.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

As a first generation immigrant (meaning I was born in the US but both my parents are from Taiwan), I actually hold a lot of national pride. I have a lot more attachment to this country than Taiwan at least though I actually really hate the culture of California which is opposite to what so many people define American culture as so I guess there's my edgy contrarianism showing.

 

[Makko]

I'm well-traveled and have observed that every country past a certain size will have a degree of solipsism ingrained into its culture. People feel like their country is the world and everything else is just for geography class. I was also like this... when I was 10 years old. Then I got to move around a little and the illusion dissipated. I also noticed that smaller countries don't have this problem, instead there tends to be a natural curiosity about the outside world.

Today I'm a rootless cosmopolitan. My country of origin is a background footnote, my country of residence is a temporary adress and my citizenships are only for seamless travel.

 

[sadbadpsychogirl]

i couldn't give a shit about national pride and people call me a terrorist because of it.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

National pride is just another version of herd mentality in my eyes. I am not going to value the country I was born in or live in simply because someone else says I should, nor will I judge someone based on their nationality.

My narcissistic cow of a mother use to berate me for not speaking in her native tongue when there was no benefit to me when I lived in a entirely different country. Your nationality has nothing to do with your individual personality or actions; it's no wonder I don't get along with many people because they're one dimensional idiots.

Herd mentality - absolutely. Thank you for your input.

As a first generation immigrant (meaning I was born in the US but both my parents are from Taiwan), I actually hold a lot of national pride. I have a lot more attachment to this country than Taiwan at least though I actually really hate the culture of California which is opposite to what so many people define American culture as so I guess there's my edgy contrarianism showing.

Fair enough. I have not visited California. What exactly is opposite about the culture there?

I'm well-traveled and have observed that every country past a certain size will have a degree of solipsism ingrained into its culture. People feel like their country is the world and everything else is just for geography class. I was also like this... when I was 10 years old. Then I got to move around a little and the illusion dissipated. I also noticed that smaller countries don't have this problem, instead there tends to be a natural curiosity about the outside world.

Today I'm a rootless cosmopolitan. My country of origin is a background footnote, my country of residence is a temporary adress and my citizenships are only for seamless travel.

Ah yes - "my country is better than yours because I was born in it" - I have heard of that before. Also I think it is interesting that you label yourself as a "rootless cosmopolitan". I have actually been searching for a word that would describe my own thought(s) on nationality. The closest I have found so far is "anational", but this words meaning is not a total match for me - plus it is a very uncommon word apparently. Most of the other words that were found are insults.

 

[Mentalmick]

Up here in the sticks (Scotland), quite a few people (usually older) expect you to dislike the English because the did this to us, that to us, blah blah blah piss off, I don't care, get a life before I take that walking stick and give you a colonoscopy with it. Gravedodgers.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Fair enough. I have not visited California. What exactly is opposite about the culture there?

It's basically Twitter come alive. If you think that kind of toxicity only exists on the internet you're wrong. Virtue signaling from people who think they're right just because they hate conservatism or centrism is everywhere. All the worst stereotypes about America are manufactured by Hollywood dunking on the South or Midwest. It's very hypocritical too. Alabama is stereotyped as being a place that encourages brother/sister relationships yet all forms of incest are completely illegal there. Meanwhile in California it's actually legal to marry your first cousin.

Out here, it's cool to dunk on patriotism and piss off traditional mindsets. California culture is a mess because it also tries to accommodate every culture (except for what they perceive to be "white culture"). So many people here claim to know what's good for themselves and the world that they'll make up anything to suit their agenda.

In 2014, a law was passed that basically renders all forms of theft under a certain amount into a misdemeanor. Basically it's impossible to arrest someone for stealing from you unless the total value of what they stole is over $950. That has since led to a sharp increase in 'smash-and-grab' crimes where people break into windows to extract whatever they can salvage out of any car. It's especially bad in San Francisco where even if you look like you have nothing worth stealing in your car people will still break your windows just in case you're hiding something. Why did we allow this law to pass? Because theft being a criminal act was apparently putting too many black people in prison. Meanwhile people of all other races jump on this opportunity and now openly rob Asians in broad daylight because as long as they aren't white, the media won't report it.

I imagine this might sound like paradise to some of you but it fucking hurts my brain trying to keep up with what's safe and what's going to make everyone fucking hate my guts.

I used to embody National pride purely ironically. I would go AMERICAAA in an obnoxious way just to piss people off. Overtime it became less ironic when I started to see some of the merits of what America is trying (though admittedly failing) to stand for. Characters like Sam the Eagle from the Muppets, Captain America in the Marvel movies, and even Stan Smith from the early American Dad episodes helped cement that for me. I think I finally decided I unironically love America more than California when I saw Team America: World Police. As they say in the movie: America. Fuck yeah.

 

[deflationary]

I can only echo the general sentiment here. National pride is an absurd concept to me. We live in an infinite or as good as infinite universe and we're gonna pretend that national borders actually mean anything but arbitrary bullshit? But then pretty much everything about humanity is arbitrary and absurd so there's not much reason to single out patriotism.

 

[Makko]

Also I think it is interesting that you label yourself as a "rootless cosmopolitan".

It's not so much a world view as it is a practice, and it presupposes an international lifestyle. Rootlessness implies a lack of attachment and ease of mobility, and being a cosmopolitan implies that you feel equally at home (or equally alienated) anywhere you go. Being an armchair "worldist" who never left his town but argues the insignificance of nationality on a philosophical level is something different.

Ah yes - "my country is better than yours because I was born in it" - I have heard of that before.

My policy of interacting with locals wherever I go is based on the wisdom of this fable:

"Look round you," said the citizen. "This is the largest market in the world."

"Oh, surely not," said the traveller.

"Well, perhaps not the largest," said the citizen, "but much the best."

"You are certainly wrong there," said the traveller. "I can tell you . . ."

They buried the stranger at the dusk.

Up here in the sticks (Scotland), quite a few people (usually older) expect you to dislike the English because the did this to us, that to us, blah blah blah piss off, I don't care, get a life before I take that walking stick and give you a colonoscopy with it. Gravedodgers.

When I was smaller I was gifted the video game Age of Empires 2, where in the tutorial you play Scots fighting against the English. At the time I could barely read the latin alphabet but it made an impression on me, how the righteous Scots were beating back the evil English and their terrible king Longshanks. I didn't understand what exactly he did but clearly it was very terrible and I've been disliking the English ever since.

 

[Futile]

I think having a strong cultural basis is important, nobody exists in a bubble and without it people usually fall into mindless consumerism (I'm looking at you 'murica). Of course it's also wrong to let patriotism take control over you and let it damage your life, I would never imagine to dislike an austrian or a french (for example) before even knowing them

 

[Mendex]

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

To be fair I fully acknowledge I'm a huge piece of shit with nothing to be proud of so might as well be proud of my country. My state can fucking burn in yet another forest fire though for all I care.