Natalists are not a minority

[thewalkingdread]

Not only natalism/pro-lifeism — i. e. "Parenting" — is the prevailing ideology of the majority but it's also a cornerstone for most cultures and societies throughout the world.

Parents are the first authoritarian figures a child will have to contend with in her life. Parents are considered to be a basic fundamental institution like the Government, the State, without which — the fear mongering makes believe! — society would implode amidst chaos.

Things usually don't work out well when one starts to question the authoritarian nature and legitimacy of a Government. Or a parent, for that matter...

Hence, most antinatalists can't really speak their mind openly about it out there because, the moment they do, they are shunned and violently shutdown, gaslighted as crazy extinctionists... Common people will suddenly stop their routines and will rain down upon you, as if they were a herd of agents Smiths trying to beat the shit out of Neo, and as if you were a mind vírus, trying to corrupt everything.

Parents, the Government, the Cartel, Michael Jackson, Elon Musk or whatever powerful authority figure you can think of... If you challenge the legitimacy of their authority, usually things will end up with the same cliché: "Shut the fuck up, or else... you'll end up like swiss cheese in a gutter!"

 

[EvisceratedJester]

The authoritarian behaviour of parents is a large part of why people grow up and have trouble with fighting against authority. From a young age, we have had our opinions ignored, feelings disregarded, and voices taken away by the people who were supposed to be uplifting us. We were forced to comply and that compliance was treated as a sign of respect rather than it being seen for what it truly was, forced compliance. As adults, we want to question the world around us but we instead suppress that urge because it's something we were taught to do. Everyone is aware that there are a lot of wrongs in this world but we can't have proper discussions on it because of the way most of us have been brought up. I think that's part of why you notice that contrast between the few people brought up by parents who didn't treat themselves as authority figures verses the majority of people who were raise by authoritarian parents. It's harder to break out of your shell when you've been forced to live in it throughout most of your life.

With that in mind, I don't think that the authoritarian nature of most parents is really the main reason why people are against antinatalism. People are against it because most people see reproduction as a normal part of life and want to have kids. It also doesn't help that some antinatalists express their opinions in a manner that is obnoxious and, in a lot of cases, demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of the philosophy, leading to AN getting a bad reputation. To add onto this, nobody wants to feel guilty for wanting kids or having kids, which only causes people to further pushback antinatalists.

 

[sserafim]

Why are people so against antinatalism?

 

[LuvMeMusic]

Why are people so against antinatalism?

At least to me it seems like because most people have nothing else in their lives. The most common argument I hear is "What else am I supposed to live for if not to have a wife and children?".

 

[LaughingGoat]

I don't disagree with anything you said, just the reality of the situation is that people and societies as a whole aren't just going to shirk literal millions of years of evolutionary genetic code that causes us to seek procreation. Same reason I don't get mad that everyone around kills and eats animals, I understand it's in our nature.

 

[sserafim]

At least to me it seems like because most people have nothing else in their lives. The most common argument I hear is "What else am I supposed to live for if not to have a wife and children?".

Women are also against it though. I don't see how antinatalism is "dumb"

 

[divinemistress36]

Women are also against it though. I don't see how antinatalism is "dumb"

Antinatalism is logical to me but maybe if I had a healthy mindset I'd feel otherwise

 

[thewalkingdread]

It also doesn't help that some antinatalists express their opinions in a manner that is obnoxious

Dude, all it takes for "people out there" — i.e. natalists/prolifers — to go flying off the handles is a mere 'I wish I were never born' — which is, by the way, a lesser hard-to-swallow pill than 'I want to kill myself'...

As soon you finish the sentence, people are firing at you humiliating shit like: 'You are so ungrateful', 'You are crazy', 'Life is a miracle', 'You have everything', 'You are so spoiled', 'You should suffer more... then you'll learn how life is precious', etc, etc...

 

[sserafim]

Dude, all it takes for "people out there" — i.e. natalists/prolifers — to go flying off the handles is a mere 'I wish I were never born' — which is, by the way, less harder pill to swallow than 'I want to kill myself'...

As soon you finish the sentence, people are firing at you humiliating shit like: 'You are so ungrateful', 'You are crazy', 'Life is a miracle', 'You have everything', 'You are so spoiled', 'You should suffer more... then you'll learn how life is precious', etc, etc...

They also say shit like "just say you hate your parents and move on"

I don't disagree with anything you said, just the reality of the situation is that people and societies as a whole aren't just going to shirk literal millions of years of evolutionary genetic code that causes us to seek procreation. Same reason I don't get mad that everyone around kills and eats animals, I understand it's in our nature.

Is it a desire to have sex or children though?

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Dude, all it takes for "people out there" — i.e. natalists/prolifers — to go flying off the handles is a mere 'I wish I were never born' — which is, by the way, a lesser hard-to-swallow pill than 'I want to kill myself'...

As soon you finish the sentence, people are firing at you humiliating shit like: 'You are so ungrateful', 'You are crazy', 'Life is a miracle', 'You have everything', 'You are so spoiled', 'You should suffer more... then you'll learn how life is precious', etc, etc...

People usually say that stuff because in popular media, and in irl to some extent, it isn't uncommon to hear that phrase used by people who don't actually mean it and are being overdramatic. Unless if there is context saying otherwise, most people aren't thinking about antinatalism when they hear that phrase.

Along with that, if you have a negative experience with a few people a part of a particular demographic, it can cause you to a very negative response to everyone a part of that demographic. So, even using the example you gave, my point still stands...

 

[Abyssal]

Disagree with the title but to each their own. We can't really prove a what if scenario where we can all speak our minds.

 

[sserafim]

Disagree with the title but to each their own. We can't really prove a what if scenario where we can all speak our minds.

Why do you disagree with the title? Natalists are the majority. Society in general is natalist, and by proxy, most people also are

 

[LuvMeMusic]

Women are also against it though. I don't see how antinatalism is "dumb"

I'd say the same goes for them. "All I want in live are a good husband and children."

 

[sserafim]

I'd say the same goes for them. "All I want in live are a good husband and children."

They said that antinatalism is misogynistic because it's used to "hate on mothers and children." I think that's a braindead take though because I've literally never seen antinatalism be used to target mothers. I also think that their argument is dumb because both parents are at fault for procreation. It takes two to tango

 

[LuvMeMusic]

They said that antinatalism is misogynistic because it's used to blame and hate on mothers. I think that's a braindead take because both parents are at fault for procreation

It definitely is a stupid take.
What also appears to be quite a common take is that "only suicidal people are antinatalist" and that they "cope by making other people miserable".

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Natalists should be happy that some others are choosing not to have children. From an evolutionary perspective, it means their bloodlines will persist and the antinatalist bloodlines will die out.

Or maybe they should start trying to help make the world good enough for more people to even want to have kids in the first place. Won't happen but eh.

 

[sserafim]

It definitely is a stupid take.
What also appears to be quite a common take is that "only suicidal people are antinatalist" and that they "cope by making other people miserable".

They also said that antinatalism was eugenicist. They said that the argument in favor for antinatalism is the same logic that's used against abortion: that the individual couldn't consent. I think that their reasoning is full of logical fallacies

 

[LuvMeMusic]

They also said that antinatalism was eugenicist. They said that the argument in favor for antinatalism is the same argument that's used against abortion: that the individual couldn't consent

It's not like antinatalism is forced on anyone. You can still have children. It's just that it may not be the best decision.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

 

[thewalkingdread]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

The thing is... There's a very fine line between malice and stupidity.

And usually they are both seen walking together, holding hands like an infatuated romantic couple...

From an evolutionary perspective, it means their bloodlines will persist and the antinatalist bloodlines will die out.

Natalists would wish it were that simple. But evolutionary psychology isn't enough to erradicate antinalist ideas. Unfortunately for them, their children will always be susceptible to antinatalism...

It's kinda like when the Berlim wall "fell"... Eminent capitalists like Elon Musk rejoiced with "the downfall of socialism/communism together with the subsequent demoralization of all that subversive talk about unions and worker's party bullcrap" (I'm just stating what they thought)

Did socialist/communist ideas vanished when Rocky Balboa knocked the shit out of Drago?! NO!