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orca87

Mage
Mar 22, 2023
529
After ruminating about my own life, a lot of reading in this forum, and some valuable conversations in private messages, I found some common patterns that lead me to develop my own theory about depression.

What is depression?

There are many forms of depression in ICD-10 and DSM-5, and all of them are distinguished by their symptoms, but there are some symptoms that are common in all forms. They include:
  • tiredness
  • the feeling of emptiness
  • over– or under-eating
  • depressed mood (obviously)
  • and more
The diagnosis of depression is always given based on these or other clinical symptoms, which technically should make depression a syndrome, not a disorder.
Theories about a chemical imbalance of neurotransmitters in the brain could never be proven and are most likely nothing more than a myth (https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/debunking-two-chemical-imbalance-myths-again).

What causes depression?

More often than not, depressive people lack connection to other people. In the most extreme cases, these individuals don't have any social contacts at all; in other cases, people might have relationships, but they are not satisfied with them (for example, they often feel fooled by their friends, don't form deep connections with them or otherwise).
Most people suffer from feeling disconnected, out of place, and not belonging anywhere.

The reasons for this can be of different natures, causes or symptoms, but in the end, it more often than not boils down to "being different", being "awkward" in social situations, lacking trust in other people, etc. This, in turn, makes connections to other people – be it platonic or romantic – almost impossible. Yet, as humans, we naturally crave this feeling of belonging. Experiencing "abandonment" from social groups inevitably triggers our bodies' fear-of-death mode. However, there is no "real" threat in our modern society. Most likely, you have shelter and food. Hence, we attach the label "depression" to such a state.
As a result of the feeling of not belonging anywhere, people fail to find pleasure and joy in activities. The small pleasures of life, such as having a walk in nature, a cup of ice cream on a Wednesday at noon or listening to the birds in the morning, cannot be enjoyed if someone feels out of place. There is a lot of joy to these things; however, if only there were the feeling of belonging somewhere.

To me, it seems that the "illness of depression" absolutely neglects its root cause, which is abandonment.

Abandonment, in that sense, does not necessarily mean that people treat you badly. I can mean that people turn away from a depressive person because this person acts "awkward" or spreads a negative mood. Abandonment from its tribe is a death sentence for any social animal (including humans). That's why depression is – in my opinion – not an illness but the normal biological response. In our modern civilisation, it's just not beneficial: In the animal kingdom, for the sake of evolution, it's better if an abandoned individual becomes lethargic, does not reproduce and serves as food for other animals higher in the food chain. That does not apply to modern civilisation. There could be a chance to re-connect – if someone overcomes the lethargy. (In a way depression is as normal as being obese: Without modern society, storage of excess food consumption is a good thing. Just the abundance of food makes it counterproductive for humans.)

How to treat depression?

That being said, every therapy that targets treating depression is doomed to fail. Most likely, antidepressants have no effect at all. Most likely, any other therapy that tries to "reconnect" you with feelings of joy is doomed to fail, either. Here is why: The most common advice that you'll probably get is to start enjoying things for their own sake, just for you. That is just another way of saying "enjoy solitude".
Solitude, however, in contrast to loneliness, implies a choice. The choice of seeking company or pursuing things on your own.

Most people here feel they don't have this choice. Because they feel people turning away from them (either because they're socially awkward, don't trust people, or feel they cannot provide good company for others). In turn, "enjoying solitude" is impossible for these individuals. Because it would mean "enjoy loneliness". Loneliness is something that cannot be enjoyed. It's fundamentally against our brain's needs. "Normal" people simply cannot feel the pain and struggle it causes to build and keep relationships and eventually lose them.

Again, any treatment of "depression" that targets "improving quality of life" or "alleviating symptoms" is doomed to fail. In some cases, it can make it worse for two reasons: First, it may distract you from addressing the underlying root cause, and second, if you're using antidepressants, you'll most likely get nothing but side effects (which ironically include all forms of depressive symptoms).
In the case of antidepressants, a 2022 meta-analysis of 232 randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials that were submitted to the FDA between 1979 and 2016 found that antidepressants are de facto useless – only 15% of patients benefited from them. (https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj-2021-067606)

The only way therapy could work is by trying to train someone to build relationships with other people. And then we must go out in the world, hoping to find the "right" people. "Right" people are the ones we admire and that accept us. Just meeting someone who is nice to you but doesn't share a common interest, or that we ourselves for some reason or another, don't "like" are not the right people for us. We would again feel abandoned because we would constantly be craving "better" friends or partners. People that we crave to have a connection to.


Let me know what you think. Can you relate?
 
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BloomingStrella

BloomingStrella

bus tickets are expensive
Mar 29, 2023
285
This is exactly what I think. If therapists learned to help people on how to build interpersonal relationships instead of berating them with toxic positivity, things would be much better. Even introverted people feel the need for friends, eventually. Loneliness, even if you're not interested in love, is one of the most crushing feelings ever. It's something no one should have to experience, but due to things like anxiety, feelings of inadequacy, etc. it's not always easy to go out and meet people, or even make friends.
 
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NumbItAll

NumbItAll

expendable
May 20, 2018
1,104
Works for me, it feels like loneliness is killing me all the time and life barely even feels real. Nothing feels worth doing unless there's someone to do it with. But it has to be the right person or it will make me feel even more alienated. The rare times I had an intimate connection were when I felt most content. Great analysis that I think applies to many people with depression although not necessarily everyone.
 
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orca87

Mage
Mar 22, 2023
529
Great analysis that I think applies to many people with depression although not necessarily everyone
Actually, that's why I was sharing it here: To find out if it's just the bias from my conversations and personal experience or if it's really "almost everyone"
 
WeDontKnowTheFuture

WeDontKnowTheFuture

Student
Feb 3, 2023
155
Interesting post, i can relate as i struggle so much to belong, always felt offset with my hypersensitivity, hyperactive brain and my tendency to reject any dogma or preconceived idea. My loneliness is very intense and most of the friends i had walked away from me during my stages of depression. Being atypical is difficult in modern society.. Howewer, i don't want to just talk about myself ^^ I think you're right when you say that depression is caused by inadequacy with the environment ( professional, social ) but i also think it can be in a lot of cases, trauma-related, for example peoples with social anxiety are generally people who have been bulliedin their childhood or had family issue. A lot of our struggles and addictions are trauma-related. Gabor maté talk a lot about that if you guys want to inform more about. Going to the root of traumas can, i think, fix a lot of inner issues.
 
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orca87

Mage
Mar 22, 2023
529
i also think it can be in a lot of cases, trauma-related, for example peoples with social anxiety are generally people who have been bulliedin their childhood or had family issue. A lot of our struggles and addictions are trauma-related. Gabor maté talk a lot about that if you guys want to inform more about.

I believe that depression is always related to an ongoing problem, not one in the past. Sure, trauma plays a vital role in that.
However, then it's the trauma that causes things like social anxiety, which then causes behaviour that is perceived as awkward by others, which makes it impossible to connect. That's the point where depression sets in. But then it is the current situation that causes the depression. Or, in other words: People are probably not depressed by their trauma, but by how the trauma affects their current situation.

Going to the root of traumas can, i think, fix a lot of inner issues.
Absolutely! Trauma can be the cause of socially incompatible behaviour, so by fixing that, you can fix your behaviour. Then the current situation is better. You can make connections and your depression disappears (if you also happen to meet the right people).

In that sense, trauma is not the cause of depression, but rather the precursor. Does that make sense?
Being atypical is difficult in modern society
Do you really believe that being atypical has been easier at other times? I think it has never been easy – probably, it's even easier in our modern society as there is at least some awareness. This doesn't help, though, because people will tolerate atypical individuals, but never fully accept them
 
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WeDontKnowTheFuture

WeDontKnowTheFuture

Student
Feb 3, 2023
155
Yes, all you said make much sense. Depression is effectively present related wich is caused by harmful past conditioning.( not always but often ). Yes maybe you're right about the difficulty of being atypical in whatever time, but there are certainly some more open-minded civilizations around the worlds wich are more tolerant and less conformist. past or present civilizations. When i use the terms modern society i refer to the big industrialized cities with all the slaves who feed it. In that society of appearance and "normality", it can be a struggle to find his place.

I believe that depression is always related to an ongoing problem, not one in the past. Sure, trauma plays a vital role in that.
However, then it's the trauma that causes things like social anxiety, which then causes behaviour that is perceived as awkward by others, which makes it impossible to connect. That's the point where depression sets in. But then it is the current situation that causes the depression. Or, in other words: People are probably not depressed by their trauma, but by how the trauma affects their current situation.


Absolutely! Trauma can be the cause of socially incompatible behaviour, so by fixing that, you can fix your behaviour. Then the current situation is better. You can make connections and your depression disappears (if you also happen to meet the right people).

In that sense, trauma is not the cause of depression, but rather the precursor. Does that make sense?

Do you really believe that being atypical has been easier at other times? I think it has never been easy – probably, it's even easier in our modern society as there is at least some awareness. This doesn't help, though, because people will tolerate atypical individuals, but never fully accept themYes, e
I believe that depression is always related to an ongoing problem, not one in the past. Sure, trauma plays a vital role in that.
However, then it's the trauma that causes things like social anxiety, which then causes behaviour that is perceived as awkward by others, which makes it impossible to connect. That's the point where depression sets in. But then it is the current situation that causes the depression. Or, in other words: People are probably not depressed by their trauma, but by how the trauma affects their current situation.


Absolutely! Trauma can be the cause of socially incompatible behaviour, so by fixing that, you can fix your behaviour. Then the current situation is better. You can make connections and your depression disappears (if you also happen to meet the right people).

In that sense, trauma is not the cause of depression, but rather the precursor. Does that make sense?

Do you really believe that being atypical has been easier at other times? I think it has never been easy – probably, it's even easier in our modern society as there is at least some awareness. This doesn't help, though, because people will tolerate atypical individuals, but never fully accept them
Every peoples will not systematically do not accept atypical individual. The most conditioned will, and, this is majority.
 
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orca87

Mage
Mar 22, 2023
529
Yes maybe you're right about the difficulty of being atypical in whatever time, but there are certainly some more open-minded civilizations around the worlds wich are more tolerant and less conformist. past or present civilizations. When i use the terms modern society i refer to the big industrialized cities with all the slaves who feed it. In that society of appearance and "normality", it can be a struggle to find his place.
Even the most tolerant society wouldn't help that much. For "normal" people, regardless of societal conditioning, it is unpleasant to be intimate (not necessarily in a romantic sense) with or close to an atypical person. An atypical person will be tolerated at best but never entirely accepted.

The good news is you can try to overcome traumas to become less atypical in some cases.
 
heartbroken12

heartbroken12

Member
Mar 17, 2023
66
Yes, I really feel this to be true. And perhaps, over time it does manifest in changes to the brain and body- but first and foremost I think it is caused by circumstance: prolonged loneliness, rejection, lack of a healthy social structure. If this is left unchecked for too long it leads to introspection, poor self image, cynicism and loss of all enjoyment/vitality. It's so sad because nobody would choose that for themselves. And yet it becomes this awful, self fulfilling thing that will not shift no matter how much desperately you want it to change. People label others with depression as being resistant to help or recovery and it's like a double blow. Because they would love more than anything to have their life back, and somewhere along the line they became a victim of circumstance. They did not have people around them to show them love, care and friendship when they needed it most. Most of the time the depressed person doesn't recognise this- because it's impossible to see these things for what they are as they are happening. We just respond. Then years later, when the initial causes and people attached to them are long gone, all they are left with are themselves… and a sense of hurt and confusion. And so they end up blaming themselves for not being able to be happy 😔 It's really cruel and so poorly understood.
 
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orca87

Mage
Mar 22, 2023
529
Yes, I really feel this to be true. And perhaps, over time it does manifest in changes to the brain and body- but first and foremost I think it is caused by circumstance: prolonged loneliness, rejection, lack of a healthy social structure. If this is left unchecked for too long it leads to introspection, poor self image, cynicism and loss of all enjoyment/vitality. It's so sad because nobody would choose that for themselves. And yet it becomes this awful, self fulfilling thing that will not shift no matter how much desperately you want it to change. People label others with depression as being resistant to help or recovery and it's like a double blow. Because they would love more than anything to have their life back, and somewhere along the line they became a victim of circumstance. They did not have people around them to show them love, care and friendship when they needed it most. Most of the time the depressed person doesn't recognise this- because it's impossible to see these things for what they are as they are happening. We just respond. Then years later, when the initial causes and people attached to them are long gone, all they are left with are themselves… and a sense of hurt and confusion. And so they end up blaming themselves for not being able to be happy 😔 It's really cruel and so poorly understood.
I feel you!

It's essential not to make it a blame game in either direction.
Rejection, not having people around that care, is not something to blame others for. Nobody is obliged to show you love.
On the other hand, don't blame yourself for not being happy.

It's not about someone's fault. It's more about being or becoming the person that you yourself would like to love. As @WeDontKnowTheFuture pointed out in another thread, people will become "magically attracted" to you. Then, it's just a matter of luck that these people are compatible.
 
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RoundaboutResolved

RoundaboutResolved

Stuck in a roundabout with no exits!
Apr 5, 2023
820
Totally relate & thinking you nailed it on the head. Awesome post btw! 😀
 
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WeDontKnowTheFuture

WeDontKnowTheFuture

Student
Feb 3, 2023
155
Exactly, life teach me that we should never expect anything from others. Just observe them and become the person you'd like to be around.
 
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noname223

Archangel
Aug 18, 2020
5,350
I have not read the whole thing. Though I don't think there is one main root of depression. I rather think it has very heterogeneous causes for different people. I think depression is one name for many different depressive disorders. I think there are people with a perfect social life and they are still terribly depressed.
 
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orca87

Mage
Mar 22, 2023
529
I have not read the whole thing. Though I don't think there is one main root of depression. I rather think it has very heterogeneous causes for different people. I think depression is one name for many different depressive disorders. I think there are people with a perfect social life and they are still terribly depressed.
I really would love to learn about their experiences. For now the above resembles the experience of everyone I've spoken about this and my own experience
 
N

noname223

Archangel
Aug 18, 2020
5,350
I really would love to learn about their experiences. For now the above resembles the experience of everyone I've spoken about this and my own experience
I have some real true friends who know everything of me. When I am with them I clearly feel way better. Though my financial issues, the extreme pressure and anxiety can be eased by them but they cannot solve my core problems. I have developed OCD, anxiety, psychosis and bipolar. They clearly help to cope but all this mental torment does not disappear just by venting when I talk with them.

My friends are the biggest gift I have in life but I still feel often overwhelmed by all this pain. I have explained them my horror so often they don't know what to add now to it because we analyzed everything through and through.
 
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orca87

Mage
Mar 22, 2023
529
I have some real true friends who know everything of me. When I am with them I clearly feel way better. Though my financial issues, the extreme pressure and anxiety can be eased by them but they cannot solve my core problems. I have developed OCD, anxiety, psychosis and bipolar. They clearly help to cope but all this mental torment does not disappear just by venting when I talk with them.

My friends are the biggest gift I have in life but I still feel often overwhelmed by all this pain. I have explained them my horror so often they don't know what to add now to it because we analyzed everything through and through.
Thanks for sharing it! So sorry that you need to go through such hard times
 
epic

epic

Enlightened
Aug 9, 2019
1,813
Interesting take but I don't think that the fear of abandonment covers all cases of depression. Someone who has cancer and is getting worse everyday might freak out because of fear of impending death rather than the fear of abandonment.
 
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orca87

Mage
Mar 22, 2023
529
Interesting take but I don't think that the fear of abandonment covers all cases of depression. Someone who has cancer and is getting worse everyday might freak out because of fear of impending death rather than the fear of abandonment.
Sure! I was referring to depression as a state of mind purely caused by emotions, not terminal illness
 
whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,914
I do relate. I've always felt that a psychologist in this context is a paid friend and won't work. You need friends, a couple, at the very least a supportive family. Without these you'll feel horrible and die sooner. We are enthralled by our social nature.
 
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