My mom believes suicide is self-murder

[BitterlyAlive]

I kept my mouth shut. I personally disagree. I don't think it's self-murder. Nor is it giving up, nor is it weak. In my opinion, of course.

It just frustrated me...

 

[rt1989526]

By definition it is. Who cares though, people who aren't suffering won't understand. It's that simple.

 

[dysfunctional]

That's what the word literally means. However I think it is a legitimate option for those of us who suffer so much by living.

 

[PJFord]

I agree with @rt1989526 ... technically she is correct. The word murder of course, has a negative connotation. In every other incidence I agree, but me murdering myself, meh, it's just semantics.

 

[Lone_Gray_Wolf]

In a way, she's right but she's only getting a "technically true". Is that, technically true but not quite there yet. However, the definition doesn't matter, what matters is the act and the intention.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Suicide is not murder, because murder is immoral, and suicide isn't. Suicide is simply an expression of our right to individual autonomy, which, if we're going to try to be ethical at all, must be respected. It may bring emotional harm to others, but that isn't something that can currently be helped, lots of things offend people every day, feelings get hurt and that is unfortunate. But, it brings no physical harm to anyone else, and that's the crucial point.

 

[foxdie]

I kept my mouth shut. I personally disagree. I don't think it's self-murder. Nor is it giving up, nor is it weak. In my opinion, of course.

It just frustrated me...

It's a bit of a gray area. But also a bit of semantics too. If suicide isn't a crime, which in some places it's not, then it's not self murder? I don't know? And places where it is a crime is super messed up FTR. Also you're opinion is equally as valid as your mom's. You don't have to convince her.

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

sui: self cide: kill

She's right

 

[Gavr1212]

Not to get too deep into an argument over semantics, but I would think 'suicide' is more accurately self killing, not self murder. Homicide does not necessarily imply murder. Not all instances of killing are murder -- for instance, unintentional accidents, accidents that were a result of negligence or disregard, and self defense -- and I would say the same goes for suicide.

 

[foxdie]

sui: self cide: kill

She's right

Sorry I'm a bit out of my tree right now so don't take this an attack or anything but, isn't that just semantics?

 

[BitterlyAlive]

Also you're opinion is equally as valid as your mom's. You don't have to convince her.

Right. I don't want to try and "convince" her because she, like you said, has the right to her opinion. I guess it just bothers me because of the stigma. Sorry :/

 

[foxdie]

Right. I don't want to try and "convince" her because she, like you said, has the right to her opinion. I guess it just bothers me because of the stigma. Sorry :/

No need to apologize, this stigma is unjust and unhealthy.

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

Sorry I'm a bit out of my tree right now so don't take this an attack or anything but, isn't that just semantics?

I don't care. Sorry. No offense.

 

[Mustkeyknow]

I mean, she is your mother, probably wants to protect you at all costs.

 

[Thinking]

By definition it is. Who cares though, people who aren't suffering won't understand. It's that simple.

I disagree with your definition. I would argue that murder is non-consentual (sp?), hence why it is problematic. Suicide, on the other hand, is consentual, so it's fine.

 

[foxdie]

Not to get too deep into an argument over semantics, but I would think 'suicide' is more accurately self killing, not self murder. Homicide does not necessarily imply murder. Not all instances of killing are murder -- for instance, unintentional accidents, accidents that were a result of negligence or disregard, and self defense -- and I would say the same goes for suicide.

My point was more, theoretically cause we can't really know, we can speciulate that "pre-language" humans had the same brain as us and so we can infer they could ctb. Laws and words are just abstract concepts we use to understand the world. I'm not trying to say murder is not bad. Just we all control our own life. But take it with a grain of salt cause I am baked.

 

[rt1989526]

I disagree with your definition. I would argue that murder is non-consentual (sp?), hence why it is problematic. Suicide, on the other hand, is consentual, so it's fine.

Fair point.

 

[BitterlyAlive]

I mean, she is your mother, probably wants to protect you at all costs.

She doesn't know I'm suicidal. At least, I don't think she does...

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I personally really dislike it when suicide is called self-murder, because it has to do with intention. Murder generally has to do with malice or ill will.

Some folks who suicide genuinely hate themselves and want to murder themselves. But it seems to me that most people suicide because they want to escape situations and/or conditions, and ending their life is the means to the desired end/ending.

I'm sure there's plenty I haven't taken into account, and someone may argue with me about my assessment when it's applied to them, It's cool to reject my assessment, I'm not trying to define everyone and I know I'm not the ultimate authority. Neither is the OP's mom and other sources that call it self-murder. I'm not cool with that anymore than some people are cool with the pronouns used to refer to them. Suicide is an act of murder of the self, but the word murder has connotations and emotional charges, so I take exception to using it when applied to suicide, at least to my own. And if you want to know, my preferred pronouns are she/her, and I like being called a "woman" and dislike being called "person born with a vulva." :)

 

[BitterlyAlive]

I personally really dislike it when suicide is called self-murder, because it has to do with intention. Murder generally has to do with malice or ill will.

Some folks who suicide genuinely hate themselves and want to murder themselves. But it seems to me that most people suicide because they want to escape situations and/or conditions, and ending their life is the means to the desired end/ending.

I'm sure there's plenty I haven't taken into account, and someone may argue with me about my assessment when it's applied to them, It's cool to reject my assessment, I'm not trying to define everyone and I know I'm not the ultimate authority. Neither is the OP's mom and other sources that call it self-murder. I'm not cool with that anymore than some people are cool with the pronouns used to refer to them. Suicide is an act of murder of the self, but the word murder has connotations and emotional charges, so I take exception to using it when applied to suicide, at least to my own. And if you want to know, my preferred pronouns are she/her, and I like being called a "woman" and dislike being called "person born with a vulva." :)

Lmao at the last part. But it reminded me of something I also told her. I told her earlier that "some people online" are beginning to refer to the act of suicide as "dying by suicide" instead of "committing suicide" due to the connotation. She...rolled her eyes and scoffed. :/ Maybe she viewed it as people trying to make more things PC. I dunno.

 

[checkouttime]

I personally really dislike it when suicide is called self-murder, because it has to do with intention. Murder generally has to do with malice or ill will.

Some folks who suicide genuinely hate themselves and want to murder themselves. But it seems to me that most people suicide because they want to escape situations and/or conditions, and ending their life is the means to the desired end/ending.

I'm sure there's plenty I haven't taken into account, and someone may argue with me about my assessment when it's applied to them, It's cool to reject my assessment, I'm not trying to define everyone and I know I'm not the ultimate authority. Neither is the OP's mom and other sources that call it self-murder. I'm not cool with that anymore than some people are cool with the pronouns used to refer to them. Suicide is an act of murder of the self, but the word murder has connotations and emotional charges, so I take exception to using it when applied to suicide, at least to my own. And if you want to know, my preferred pronouns are she/her, and I like being called a "woman" and dislike being called "person born with a vulva." :)

I love the last bit.........and thats us told ha

doesn't the saying go ''she, was the cats mother" lol

I always thought it was rude to say 'she'. I suppose it depends on circumstances though aswell!!!!

 

[VIBRITANNIA]

in my opinion, suicide is the opposite of weak. how many people can fight their survival instinct and willingly end their life? do they think that's easy? it takes a considerable amount of willpower and strength.

and how, exactly, is it "giving up"? nobody asks to fight an uphill battle. you can't give up in a battle you never wanted to fight in the first place.

 

[BitterlyAlive]

in my opinion, suicide is the opposite of weak. how many people can fight their survival instinct and willingly end their life? do they think that's easy? it takes a considerable amount of willpower and strength.

and how, exactly, is it "giving up"? nobody asks to fight an uphill battle. you can't give up in a battle you never wanted to fight in the first place.

Yeah. Can you tell I'm very particular about semantics? I guess I have nothing better to think about. How sad lol.

Going along with what you said... Sometimes when I'm feeling extra bitter, I get annoyed because people tell those who are depressed or suicidal to "stay strong". As if you're weak if you end up dying? But....as people have pointed out many times in this thread, I'm just getting myself worked up over semantics. It made me a great student though, so I guess there's a positive to this lovely trait...

 

[Dystopic_Momento]

I've always thought of murder as against the victim's will. Suicide doesn't fit that.

 

[alexit]

I kept my mouth shut. I personally disagree. I don't think it's self-murder. Nor is it giving up, nor is it weak. In my opinion, of course.

It just frustrated me...

It's not. Murder is a crime. Suicide is not a crime. Difference is not just opinion.

 

[Quinlor]

The difference is only semantic. Self-murder and ctb are synonyms in my opinion. And so what about it, who cares, its your decision.

 

[alexit]

The difference is only semantic. Self-murder and ctb are synonyms in my opinion. And so what about it, who cares, its your decision.

There is a legal difference. Not insignificant either. There was a time when suicide was a crime. That's thankfully no longer the case; otherwise people who attempt and fail would be criminally charged. Murder is the unlawful killing of another person. A semantic difference would be self-homicide but that would be a paradoxical thing to say since suicide is a more accurate term since homicide is the killing of another person. In fact murder is homicide with intent. Another reason self-murder is paradoxical and inaccurate.

 

[RedDEE]

Suicide is self-murder, about as much as masturbation is a self-hand-job.

 

[Ghost2211]

It is, so what?

 

[esse_est_percipi]

I kept my mouth shut. I personally disagree. I don't think it's self-murder. Nor is it giving up, nor is it weak. In my opinion, of course.

It just frustrated me...

Technically inaccurate if we're talking about semantics/etymology. The word comes from latin and literally means self-killing. 'Murder' further implies that something unlawful and/or immoral has been committed, which is untrue or highly questionable at least.

Using a legally/morally loaded word like 'murder' instead of 'termination' or 'ending' or even the more neutral and ambiguous 'killing', is deliberately framing the issue to align or fit in with a prejudice or preconception about the moral status of the act itself.

Lmao at the last part. But it reminded me of something I also told her. I told her earlier that "some people online" are beginning to refer to the act of suicide as "dying by suicide" instead of "committing suicide" due to the connotation. She...rolled her eyes and scoffed. :/ Maybe she viewed it as people trying to make more things PC. I dunno.

'Committing' implies or connotes that something unlawful or wrong has been done, i.e. 'x committed a crime', 'y committed murder' 'z committed incest' (although I would question the absolute immorality of incest if no one is actually harmed, and it is all consensual and based on freedom of choice).

The term 'dying by suicide' is more neutral and less judgmental, I think.

I've always thought of murder as against the victim's will. Suicide doesn't fit that.

Yes, there is no 'victim' of suicide in the legal sense. It can have negative effects on other people, but they aren't technically victims.

However, there is a victim if someone is kept alive against their will. In this case, the criminal is the state and all its institutional apparatus like the psychiatric system.