Discussion Murder/Suicide! Why?

[LittleLadyWorthless]

So, when we feel suicidal, what we decide to do with our own lives, is our personal business. Nobody has the right to tell you to stop!!
However, when your suicide or your suicidal thoughts, include taking someone with you "murder" it then becomes a heinous crime!
This happened last year, a mother jumped off "Beachy Head" Cliffs, taking her innocent 5 year old son with her! killing him too #MurderSuicide. What a nasty, evil, callous, cruel woman she was! she DIDN'T love her son, because how could she love him and so cruelly, take his own life, with hers?????
I'm Bipolar Disorder and BPD diagnosed, with extreme suicidal ideation! I take meds because I'm crazy without them, but I'm a full time mother to two little boy's, my adorable son's aged 11 and 6. I have had CPS tell me they DON'T need to be involved because I'm doing such a wonderful job! regardless of my Mental Health, I'm a functioning Mentally ill woman, who instead of hiding under covers rocking back and forth, I become a ocd crazed woman about working, about keeping a tidy house, about being the best I can be, even with all my craziness! mostly thanks to my meds...
Anyway, whenever I have tried to CTB or thought about CTB, never ever have i thought about taking my little boy's with me, and killing them, despite whatever I'm going through, those boys are my world, and even the thought of hurting them, makes me crumble!
That's because I AM a loving, caring mother!
SHE that evil woman, clearly didn't love her son! and anybody using the excuse of "oh she was mentally unwell, she didnt know what she was doing" BOLLOCKS!!
of course she knew what she was doing, she took his life, killed him, for the most selfish reason "If I cant have him, then nobody can"

So, my question to you all is...
Does this women deserve to be mourned over?? does this woman deserve forgiveness??
What are your thoughts on #MurderSuicide?

The most selfish, cruel, hurtful, cold, evil kind of people, could ever do such a heinous crime.

 

[Subhuman]

It's not that black and white. Sometimes parents kill their children along with themselves because they're so deluded they genuinely think they're protecting them. Or if they're religious they think there's nothing wrong with taking their kids' life because children automatically go to heaven. Sometimes they're just cruel and evil like you said but sometimes they really think they're acting in the kids' best interest.

 

[JoeFailure]

Yeah, it depends how mentally gone she was. I used to work with kids with autism and heard stories from the head teacher about a couple kids she had worked with that had really severe autism and other disabilities from low income homes and their parents just couldn't take it, they didn't have the money or resources to provide the right care and also felt like their child was just living a life of suffering. Those specific situations she was talking about both ended in murder-suicides, and she felt it was because the parents wanted to put the child out of their misery but also couldn't face life having done that.

Really sad stuff, really crazy how cruel this life can be.

 

[Baskol1]

Yeah, it depends how mentally gone she was. I used to work with kids with autism and heard stories from the head teacher about a couple kids she had worked with that had really severe autism and other disabilities from low income homes and their parents just couldn't take it, they didn't have the money or resources to provide the right care and also felt like their child was just living a life of suffering. Those specific situations she was talking about both ended in murder-suicides, and she felt it was because the parents wanted to put the child out of their misery but also couldn't face life having done that.

Really sad stuff, really crazy how cruel this life can be.

Sorry, there is no excuse for murder suicide, none! Someone who drags others into their suicide is just evil, selfish, and cowardly. Just like suicide bombers, the lowest of the low scum.

 

[JoeFailure]

Sorry, there is no excuse for murder suicide, none! Someone who drags others into their suicide is just evil, selfish, and cowardly. Just like suicide bombers, the lowest of the low scum.

I agree in theory...but I have no idea where someone's head is at when it comes to that stuff. I'm not saying all situations are the same, maybe sometimes it is just evil, selfish, and cowardly.

As for suicide bombers...you have to keep in mind that some of those people are brainwashed from the second they're born into thinking they're doing God's work by doing that. They don't get access to the internet and are just told over and over again how the target is evil and paradise awaits them for carrying out this holy task. And some aren't. And some of the people who brainwash them are obviously evil.

I try to really see things from someone's individual point of view as much as I can though, and I know how much mental illness can cloud rationality as well.

 

[BridgeJumper]

Being 'too far gone' might be a mitigating factor, as in not guilty by the reason of insanity defense, but no, it doesnt make it okay. Her sons life wasnt hers to take. Her son didnt want to die, she forced him to die. Despicable.

 

[Juicebox]

I think it's a direct result of people being told "but if you kill yourself, who will take care of x?" Or "how could you do that to y?" for a long enough time

 

[Robbyna]

What she did was despicable, but I think mourning is for the living not the dead and her family has a lot to mourn.

 

[LittleLadyWorthless]

It's not that black and white. Sometimes parents kill their children along with themselves because they're so deluded they genuinely think they're protecting them. Or if they're religious they think there's nothing wrong with taking their kids' life because children automatically go to heaven. Sometimes they're just cruel and evil like you said but sometimes they really think they're acting in the kids' best interest.

Nope! I dont accept any excuse. Then these delusional people should have their kids taken off them!

 

[omoidarui]

The most selfish, cruel, hurtful, cold, evil kind of people, could ever do such a heinous crime.

^much the same vocabulary the pro-lifers would describe this forum which gives instructions on suicide with.

basically, think with ur head not ur heart. i feel the same way as you about 'murder-suicide', but at the same time i know i couldn't say with certainty the mother is all those things you described her to be based on a press cutting alone. you didn't know the person, or their mental state

 

[Jolene40]

Without knowing the mother we can't know for sure what was going on. In her deluded state she may have felt the child would be completely alone and abandoned living a life worse than death without her; in some cases across the world this may even be the truth. It is abhorrent to read but we can't apply our own situations and feelings to others without being in their shoes. There may be more to this that we simply don't know. If the story was a father who killed his family and partner and then himself I'd feel differently tbh. I imagine the mum was in a right state to be able to go through with what she did.

 

[Lennox]

Does an evil act ceases to be an evil act because in your mind you had the best of intentions? I think not. Would you want this type of boundless "kindness" from the mother of your own children? I bet not.

 

[Ermac]

It was very selfish and fucked up.

I read the original article where it was posted from. It may not have 100% of the details but it was clear the father was very concerned multiple times due to "erratic behavior". However the mother was able to lie to hospital staff and authorities due to her job as a bereavement counselor.
Also with the note....the intentions are made pretty clear.

 

[stellabelle]

In this case it's totally messed up.
In personal experience, some dream about ending their rapists' sorry little existence along with their own.
I can understand some perspectives, sadly. But taking your child with you or whoever generally isn't justifiable. In "heat of the moment" cases, I do understand (ex: spouse cheated, one offs the other and then themself - doesn't make it okay or justifiable but the emotional backdrop of it is comprehensible.)

But like mass shooters picking off a crowd and then themselves? Awful,

 

[CursedForDisaster]

I don't know if we should forgive them but I do think there should be a sliver of sympathy for some of those that do this (depending on their mental condition). I honestly think we're just like them but they stressed until they snapped...of course some are just psychopaths which is why I question the forgiveness thing.

I think life is too confusing to judge, it's kind of amazing that we're somewhat civilized at all considering we're on a rock surrounded by everywhere and nowhere...there are a few that are bound to just not care or go crazy, we're lucky not everyone is bound to that (at least permanently)

 

[Subhuman]

Nope! I dont accept any excuse. Then these delusional people should have their kids taken off them!

It's not an excuse, it's a possible explanation of why people act that way. Excusing it would be saying that it's fine and I never said that.

 

[Azzy69]

you just sometimes have to take those close to you with you

 

[262653]

I doubt the dead are craving for our forgiveness or lament.

"I'm a good person; she's evil. I'm loving and caring; she is cruel, callous and heartless."

Why are you doing all of this?

 

[omoidarui]

Does an evil act ceases to be an evil act because in your mind you had the best of intentions?

Yes.

This philosophy is similar to the pro-lifers who ascribe words like "evil, callous" to this forum that permits one a means to end their life, something which they perceive to be wrongful. And they might be correct in those claims if we were pro-death and simply liked watching others die, but this forum's intentions which are actually inherently pro-CHOICE mean 'evil' would not be applicable wording. The intention makes /all/ the difference.

 

[woxihuanni]

I used to be almost trollish on 'normal' forums because I could not be open and there was suppressed rage. But when I see virtue-signalling or trolling on this forum, I just cannot understand it. There was also a post on how drug users are subhuman. OK, you are better than other people who are dying because they cannot live. Like, what the fuck are you going to do them? Kill them?

 

[oopswronglife]

I don't think its ever right to involve someone else directly or directly harm someone else. One coule stretch the definition of what the public would consider "murder suicide" and excuse say an old couple who was ready to go or both dying etc and one person killed the other and then themselves...but only when it was agreed to by both. But in reality that's just a "suicide suicide". I always get frustrated when I see people say they want the whole world blown up by an asteroid or would snap everything out of existence. It's so horribly cruel and selfish to me. To want one's own existence to end to stop the suffering is one thing...but to demand that of everyone is just wrong.

 

[BipolarExpat]

Right & Wrong are completely subjective, so therefore they remain nothing more than conceptual beliefs.

It's easy to fall in line with the "acme judgement committee" when someone else's actions match what is most commonly eschewed,...abhorred even!

If pro-lifers cannot even conceive of abortion or suicide, perhaps it's a logical step that a majority of ctbers couldn't envisage a further step down the chain of horrors (i.e. involving others).

I know it's sad and I'd never condone such an act but I'd still rather reserve conclusions of those who do based on principle.

 

[Lennox]

Yes.

This philosophy is similar to the pro-lifers who ascribe words like "evil, callous" to this forum that permits one a means to end their life, something which they perceive to be wrongful. And they might be correct in those claims if we were pro-death and simply liked watching others die, but this forum's intentions which are actually inherently pro-CHOICE mean 'evil' would not be applicable wording. The intention makes /all/ the difference.

Maybe the world evil has too many connotations, I'll drop it and use wrongful instead.
I believe ultimately this discussion would lead us to whether morals are relative, I believe they are not, there are lines you don't cross. Some things are definitely either good or bad. Suffering for example, something all of us have experienced, is definitely bad, even if there must be some people who think suffering is good. (Masochists get off on small amounts of suffering, but even them can't handle great unabated suffering)

The pro-lifers may think we are bad for deciding what to do with our own lives, but ultimately we're not, and they can't sustain that argument unless they resort to dogmas.

I believe you don't take other people's lives without their consent, outside of a self-defense situation, period. That's just wrong. Even if the murderer think he's doing good, he isn't. The exception I would make to that maybe would be that murderers themselves deserve death, but even then it's a complicated moral problem

 

[Blackjack]

So, when we feel suicidal, what we decide to do with our own lives, is our personal business. Nobody has the right to tell you to stop!!
However, when your suicide or your suicidal thoughts, include taking someone with you "murder" it then becomes a heinous crime!
This happened last year, a mother jumped off "Beachy Head" Cliffs, taking her innocent 5 year old son with her! killing him too #MurderSuicide. What a nasty, evil, callous, cruel woman she was! she DIDN'T love her son, because how could she love him and so cruelly, take his own life, with hers?????
I'm Bipolar Disorder and BPD diagnosed, with extreme suicidal ideation! I take meds because I'm crazy without them, but I'm a full time mother to two little boy's, my adorable son's aged 11 and 6. I have had CPS tell me they DON'T need to be involved because I'm doing such a wonderful job! regardless of my Mental Health, I'm a functioning Mentally ill woman, who instead of hiding under covers rocking back and forth, I become a ocd crazed woman about working, about keeping a tidy house, about being the best I can be, even with all my craziness! mostly thanks to my meds...
Anyway, whenever I have tried to CTB or thought about CTB, never ever have i thought about taking my little boy's with me, and killing them, despite whatever I'm going through, those boys are my world, and even the thought of hurting them, makes me crumble!
That's because I AM a loving, caring mother!
SHE that evil woman, clearly didn't love her son! and anybody using the excuse of "oh she was mentally unwell, she didnt know what she was doing" BOLLOCKS!!
of course she knew what she was doing, she took his life, killed him, for the most selfish reason "If I cant have him, then nobody can"

So, my question to you all is...
Does this women deserve to be mourned over?? does this woman deserve forgiveness??
What are your thoughts on #MurderSuicide?

The most selfish, cruel, hurtful, cold, evil kind of people, could ever do such a heinous crime.

I am a good Mom dying a terrible (100% fatal) disease and it hasn't been until recent events with my 17-yo son's struggles that I could even sort of begin to wrap my head around this concept. I would not/could not ever do it, but the thought of us going out of this shitty life together so he doesn't have to suffer has crossed my mind. Far be it from anyone to judge anyone without knowing the depths of their own personal hell.

 

[namelessX8]

I hate people in general. Want to go shooting others and then put a bullet in my head.

 

[omoidarui]

I believe you don't take other people's lives without their consent, outside of a self-defense situation, period. That's just wrong. Even if the murderer think he's doing good, he isn't. The exception I would make to that maybe would be that murderers themselves deserve death, but even then it's a complicated moral problem

o I forgot to reply to this sry

You say some things are definitely either good or bad and that murder is always bad like suffering is, what about industrial plants? If heavily polluted areas are linked to greater incidence of cancer, are their workers not essentially knowingly murdering everyone but in a staggered kind of way - with the added infliction of the suffering that comes with the disease - and thereby they qualify as extremely evil/wrongful on the spectrum?

Context is important. I just don't believe it can be that black and white

 

[8yy8uiyhbij]

Parents sometimes do it because they hate their life on earth and don't want their children to have to deal with it, sometimes it's selfish, sometimes it's that they hate who they may have to live with and think they would be better off dead. I'm not saying it's right, but it's not that black and white and not everyone views suicide that way

 

[clarelively]

I was just going to write a thread about this, but it looks like you beat me to it. Anyway, sometimes when i'm mad, i would want or plan to kill the person who made me mad, then i would take my own life because i wouldn't be able to bear the guilt after. I know it sounds selfish, but what if life is meaningless in general? What if their lives are just as meaningless as mine? And if i'm going to take my own life, might as well satisfy my rage and bloodlust by taking others' too. But it's wrong, and when i'm in a stable state i would pray for myself to die before i got my vengeful hands on others.

I hate people in general. Want to go shooting others and then put a bullet in my head.

Reminds me of columbine

 

[jesse]

I think anyone that is crazy enough to kill their kid with them is probably not your standard run of the mil "evil". Then again good an evil are just labels we use to justify our (necessary) emotions towards people's behaviors while ignoring their entire life's worth of context that lead up to said behaviors. So, meh. I think this lady was mentally ill to an extreme degree. I don't blame her for her illness, but then again I hardly blame anybody for anything unless it's personally necessary for my survival and well being.

 

[CursedForDisaster]

Maybe the world evil has too many connotations, I'll drop it and use wrongful instead.
I believe ultimately this discussion would lead us to whether morals are relative, I believe they are not, there are lines you don't cross. Some things are definitely either good or bad. Suffering for example, something all of us have experienced, is definitely bad, even if there must be some people who think suffering is good. (Masochists get off on small amounts of suffering, but even them can't handle great unabated suffering)

The pro-lifers may think we are bad for deciding what to do with our own lives, but ultimately we're not, and they can't sustain that argument unless they resort to dogmas.

I believe you don't take other people's lives without their consent, outside of a self-defense situation, period. That's just wrong. Even if the murderer think he's doing good, he isn't. The exception I would make to that maybe would be that murderers themselves deserve death, but even then it's a complicated moral problem

The term wrongful doesn't really work either. What's wrong for you may not be wrong for me, unless you're talking at a societal/religious/moral view point rather than an individual's, which not everyone wants to take part in. Either we don't believe in gods, we do, or we our own gods. What's stopping someone from taking the immoral ground and what's keeping others choosing morals? Everything is based on the perception from your own experience