Discussion Montana legislator says she rather risk her daughter committing suicide than allowing her to do gender affirming surgery

[zeenatax]

This news was in NBC News website A Montana politician said she would rather risk her daughter commiting suicide than allowing gender affirming surgery. She said she knows her daughter is suicidal but she called it an emotional manipulation. She said this during a speech in the legislative chamber in Montana. She is a Republican pro-lifer. What kind of mother is she? She also said that it's for her daughter's own good. How is that this is for the daughter's own good? The daughter killing herself for own good? This shows the pro lifers don't care about the life. This is all power trip, ego and hatred towards the trans people. She is just being in a stand off with her teen daughter. I really feel sorry for the daughter who is going feel trapped until she could make her decisions on her own and emotional suffering she is going go through. With this kind of parents no wonder a lot of teens in the US are suicidal. If the daughter actually commits suicide then this parent will shift blame on everything else except on her. She doesn't care about her child's life or well being. Her own power politics is more important than her own child. If the daughter happens to be in SS just imagine.

 

[SpiderLink]

I highly recommend not using the word "commit" when talking about suicide, instead use "died by suicide" "took their life" "ended their life". Suicide isn't a crime. Your not gonna say for someone that died from a heart attack say they "committed a heart attack"

 

[zeenatax]

I highly recommend not using the word "commit" when talking about suicide, instead use "died by suicide" "took their life" "ended their life". Suicide isn't a crime. Your not gonna say for someone that died from a heart attack say they "committed a heart attack"

Thank you for pointing out me. I apologize.

 

[SpiderLink]

Thank you for pointing out me. I apologize.

It's all good, just wanted to let u know that's all :)

 

[FadingFast2023]

False equivalency since a recent large scale study showed trangenders that had plastic surgery were at a much higher suicide rate than those that didn't have it. So the Montana Legislator decided to "risk" his daughter having a statistical less chance of suicide ... if you follow the science and data ... which I hope you do. And doing it on a minor is just ghoulish sick shit. But yeah be outraged that some legislature in a state you don't live said words you disagree with because the media instructed you to get outraged.

 

[hungry_ghost]

It's a tough situation.

While the mother is certainly taking a stand for her politics, who are we to say she's opposing her child with bad will?

Can a person in their adolescence truly without error decide for themselves if they are born in the wrong body?

Should the first course of action when a child voices these speculations about themselves be an immediate regimen of HRT?

Especially in a world rife with social engineering and programming, where the more prevalent a thing is, the more likely others are to engage in it.

As someone who suffered from gender dysphoria in the past, I could see 10 years ago how absurd the community was becoming:

there is a difference between legitimately having extreme gender dysphoria to the degree that transitioning is necessary for psychological well-being, and then the people with identity crises who call themselves "demi-boys" yet want to be a girl, but want to remove their breasts, or just get on T to look like their favorite anime character or some shit.

They treat it like it's Cyberpunk 2077 and they're just modifying their avatar, not realizing the serious consequences.

So yeah, I think the woman is doing her child a favor by not immediately caving to what could possibly be a whim.

 

[storeboughtisfine]

Why do they hate us so much. Let us live or die with dignity either way. But WE DESERVE DIGNITY.

 

[CentreMid]

This news was in NBC News website A Montana politician said she would rather risk her daughter commiting suicide than allowing gender affirming surgery. She said she knows her daughter is suicidal but she called it an emotional manipulation. She said this during a speech in the legislative chamber in Montana. She is a Republican pro-lifer. What kind of mother is she? She also said that it's for her daughter's own good. How is that this is for the daughter's own good? The daughter killing herself for own good? This shows the pro lifers don't care about the life. This is all power trip, ego and hatred towards the trans people. She is just being in a stand off with her teen daughter. I really feel sorry for the daughter who is going feel trapped until she could make her decisions on her own and emotional suffering she is going go through. With this kind of parents no wonder a lot of teens in the US are suicidal. If the daughter actually commits suicide then this parent will shift blame on everything else except on her. She doesn't care about her child's life or well being. Her own power politics is more important than her own child. If the daughter happens to be in SS just imagine.

That's not a mother, that's a monster.

 

[gizzreid]

False equivalency since a recent large scale study showed trangenders that had plastic surgery were at a much higher suicide rate than those that didn't have it. So the Montana Legislator decided to "risk" his daughter having a statistical less chance of suicide ... if you follow the science and data ... which I hope you do. And doing it on a minor is just ghoulish sick shit. But yeah be outraged that some legislature in a state you don't live said words you disagree with because the media instructed you to get outraged.

first of all, it is not "transgenders". we are not animals, transgender isn't the only thing we are. transgender is an adjective, we are transgender people.

second of all, most reputable studies and sources point to gender affirming care to be entirely helpful for gender dysphoria. no, it does not cure it. you cannot cure it, you can simply ease it away. one big reason i plan to CTB is because HRT has not been working, so having a higher suicide rate after HRT and/or surgery (it is not "plastic surgery", that is cosmetic, for many of us gender affirming care is life saving and you can see that from this site alone) does not prove anything. we all have many reasons we want to CTB, being transgender doesn't have to be every single one of us trans people's reasons. mine is, but it is the opposite of what transphobes believe, i'm ending my life due to lack of resources. maybe if this world didn't treat me, not even 20 years old, like a pedo simply because i am transgender, i'd have more of a chance in this world.

i attempted multiple times as a minor due to my mom not letting me start gender affirming care. again, it is life saving. many trans people who don't truly want to CTB do it because of their lack of resources, including minors. i have lost over 10 trans friends as a minor to suicide when their only reason was dysphoria. while i agree it should be a more lengthy process (and i promise you- it is) for minors than adults to receive HRT, but it should not be banned. i knew who i was at 13 more than i do now. being transgender is not like thinking you're a cat or unicorn when you're a kid. many of us just know it, some from the moment they were able to think.

 

[Rogue Proxy]

That Republican pro-suffering bitch should have never bred in the first place! If a parent cannot completely accept and support their offspring for their true identity, then they shouldn't have any children at all.

 

[gizzreid]

It's a tough situation.

While the mother is certainly taking a stand for her politics, who are we to say she's opposing her child with bad will?

Can a person in their adolescence truly without error decide for themselves if they are born in the wrong body?

Should the first course of action when a child voices these speculations about themselves be an immediate regimen of HRT?

Especially in a world rife with social engineering and programming, where the more prevalent a thing is, the more likely others are to engage in it.

As someone who suffered from gender dysphoria in the past, I could see 10 years ago how absurd the community was becoming:

there is a difference between legitimately having extreme gender dysphoria to the degree that transitioning is necessary for psychological well-being, and then the people with identity crises who call themselves "demi-boys" yet want to be a girl, but want to remove their breasts, or just get on T to look like their favorite anime character or some shit.

They treat it like it's Cyberpunk 2077 and they're just modifying their avatar, not realizing the serious consequences.

So yeah, I think the woman is doing her child a favor by not immediately caving to what could possibly be a whim.

yes, speaking as an adult who came out as transgender at 13, many of us know. i know people who came out before 10 and still are openly transgender to this day, just look at jazz jennings. while i believe gender affirming care on minors should be a lengthy process to be safe (and it already is!) it should not be banned. this will cause minors to die. i have lost so many friends as a kid to suicide, not because they truly wanted to die but because of their dysphoria. for most of us, gender affirming care is life saving. people deserve to CTB because they truly want to like many of us here, not because they're being denied resources they need to feel happy.

"demi boys" do not hurt anyone. transphobes do. at the end of the day, it's not the nonbinary people trying to eradicate (the right's words, not mine) transgender people. it's transphobes. all this shit about nonbinary identities being invalid is just distractions from the genocide being enacted against transgender people right now, especially in the US. how someone chooses to define their gender identity is not yours or mine to decide, and it is certainly not our place to judge.

 

[NoLightRemains]

False equivalency since a recent large scale study showed trangenders that had plastic surgery were at a much higher suicide rate than those that didn't have it. So the Montana Legislator decided to "risk" his daughter having a statistical less chance of suicide ... if you follow the science and data ... which I hope you do. And doing it on a minor is just ghoulish sick shit. But yeah be outraged that some legislature in a state you don't live said words you disagree with because the media instructed you to get outraged.

Can I see this source? Is it actually comparing transgender people with surgeries to other transgender people without surgeries? Or are you referring to transgender people with surgeries compared to the general cis population.

I've only seen the latter study personally, and it makes sense that the suicide rate is still high, but that study is not evidence that surgery is harmful. The outcomes could have been even worse.

 

[sashimi_]

trans kids don't even necessarily need to do all the puberty blocker/hrt/surgery planning (i mean.. kids don't even get hrt afaik??? just blockers..) they mainly need a parent who will take care of them, listen to their feelings and how they change/persist.. actually pay attention to them rather than take to fb/twitter/ig to bitch about the trans cult or wtf ever. it all just seems like parents aren't willing to BE parents and guide their kids through life. yeah ok so maybe its a phase. but it'll be a phase they can go thru under a supportive parent rather than being ostracized and having to go thru it all alone and facing constant resistence
edit: also kids make safer decisions in safe environments where theyre free to discuss their feelings & doubts etc. theyre not exactly prone to making rational decisions when every adult is telling them NO baselessly

 

[hungry_ghost]

yes, speaking as an adult who came out as transgender at 13, many of us know. i know people who came out before 10 and still are openly transgender to this day, just look at jazz jennings. while i believe gender affirming care on minors should be a lengthy process to be safe (and it already is!) it should not be banned. this will cause minors to die. i have lost so many friends as a kid to suicide, not because they truly wanted to die but because of their dysphoria. for most of us, gender affirming care is life saving. people deserve to CTB because they truly want to like many of us here, not because they're being denied resources they need to feel happy.

"demi boys" do not hurt anyone. transphobes do. at the end of the day, it's not the nonbinary people trying to eradicate (the right's words, not mine) transgender people. it's transphobes. all this shit about nonbinary identities being invalid is just distractions from the genocide being enacted against transgender people right now, especially in the US. how someone chooses to define their gender identity is not yours or mine to decide, and it is certainly not our place to judge.

I knew transgender people, too, and probably every other one of them within the nonbinary spectrum also identified as having a form of autism or a personality disorder.

These are things that need to be taken into consideration.

I don't believe there is a genocide; I think the reason this issue has gotten so much traction and backlash in the mainstream is due to the fact that it stopped being about "people minding their own business and just wanting to be themselves" and escalated to involving kids.

 

[gizzreid]

I knew transgender people, too, and probably every other one of them within the nonbinary spectrum also identified as having a form of autism or a personality disorder.

These are things that need to be taken into consideration.

I don't believe there is a genocide; I think the reason this issue has gotten so much traction and backlash in the mainstream is due to the fact that it stopped being about "people minding their own business and just wanting to be themselves" and escalated to involving kids.

ahh the classic "little autistic girl doesn't know her gender identity.." nice infantilization of autistic people. we aren't fucking babies. we know our identities as much as you do.

let's take a look at that. for one, autism causes many to see outside the gender spectrum. autistic people lack social cue awareness, gender is a social construct for the most part. so it'd be natural for autistic people to not grasp the binary gender spectrum since their brains aren't coded that way. on top of this, both being trans and being autistic is considered "outside the norm". when you're already outside the norm, let's say autistic, you have more room and reason to explore other things outside the norm, like being gay or trans. people who have fit inside the box society deems preferable (white, cis, neurotypical, straight, etc) you don't often have a reason to explore other feelings and identities because the world was designed for you, no reason to go searching more. to be clear this is not to say non-autists cannot be trans, it's just to draw the link between it.

only the personality disorders: trans people are ridiculed and harassed and bullied and even killed. that is traumatic. it's no doubt we'll develop personality disorders from that trauma, especially those who come out early in life and are subject to that trauma from an early age.

and yes, it is a genocide. your clear subconscious transphobia does nothing but encourage the violence the alt-right gives out. it's fuel to the fire. even if you aren't 100% on their side, you're aiding them.

critical thinking is key in connecting issues. i believe in you.

 

[hungry_ghost]

ahh the classic "little autistic girl doesn't know her gender identity.."

Girl, did I say that? Nobody is attacking you personally.

let's take a look at that. for one, autism causes many to see outside the gender spectrum.

You might be right.

However, I fail to see how the possible correlation implies that we need to validate, appease, and restructure society for every whimsical gender identity.

only the personality disorders: trans people are ridiculed and harassed and bullied and even killed. that is traumatic. it's no doubt we'll develop personality disorders from that trauma, especially those who come out early in life and are subject to that trauma from an early age.

Well, not every transgender person has been bullied though.

People could have personality disorders preceding realization of gender dysphoria.

your clear subconscious transphobia

I knew that was coming eventually.

Political factions are bullshit.

You're either in favor of truth, or you aren't.

 

[gizzreid]

no, you didn't say that, but that is what the argument is. that is the argument everyone uses. that afab autistic people aren't valid in their identity because of their autism. autism has literally nothing effecting your ability to know who you are.

how does respecting people effect you? if i told you i was a demiboy, would your night be ruined? would your crops die? will your family be famished? no? okay, so why the fuck do you care? my people are being murdered, they literally said "we need to eradicate trangenderism". we are dying and your concern is some random person idenyifying as something you personally dislike? grow up.

not every transgender has been bullied... depending on your definition of bullying. every trans person experiences transphobia, whether that's small microaggression (like the autistic shit you just pulled, that is a transphobic microaggression and somehow ableist too! implying autistic people are less aware of their identity?) or if it's big acts of transphobia like physical altercations. if you consider bigotry to be bullying, yes every trans person has been bullied.

the personality disorder debate is ridiculous. "i know people with it..." okay? i know people with pet ferrets. doesn't mean it's legal to own one in every state, nor does it mean everyone owns a ferret. your anecdote is irrelevant.

"political fractions" my people are dying. what do you not get about that? this is not about what side is correct. this is about human lives. people are dying because of willful ignorance like yours. you say "for the children!" but then ignore the hundreds of trans kids like i once was who are suffering. what about those kids? what about their truth?

 

[borderline-feline]

If someone isn't prepared to have a gay kid or a trans kid, then they shouldn't have kids. If you refuse to accept your kids for who they are, then you're not a real parent.

People who politicize the existence of trans people do so because we're an easy target. It's no different from how republican politicians would fearmonger about gay marriage in the US before Obergefell V Hodges.

Kansas made it illegal for trans people to use public bathrooms, and other states are following suit with attempts to remove trans people from public before removing us from existence.

I knew transgender people, too, and probably every other one of them within the nonbinary spectrum also identified as having a form of autism or a personality disorder.

These are things that need to be taken into consideration.

I don't believe there is a genocide; I think the reason this issue has gotten so much traction and backlash in the mainstream is due to the fact that it stopped being about "people minding their own business and just wanting to be themselves" and escalated to involving kids.

No one is trying to force kids to do anything. I would kill to be able to go back and take puberty blockers when I was 12. Maybe I wouldn't be on this site if that had been the case.

You also don't "identify" as "having a form of autism" or having a personality disorder. You're either autistic or you aren't. You either have a personality disorder or you don't. You're either trans or cis. None of this is about identity.

Trans people wanna be allowed to fucking exist. We want access to medical care that we need in order to exist. We wanna be able to go to the bathroom. We want for trans people to not be deadnamed and misgendered in media coverage of the hate crimes against trans people.

Puberty blockers are reversible, and no one is giving HRT to children. No one is doing transition surgeries on children. No one is doing SRS on minors.

There have been actual Holocaust survivors who have said that there is a genocide against trans people going on now. That by itself says a lot.

 

[Dot]

I knew transgender people, too, and probably every other one of them within the nonbinary spectrum also identified as having a form of autism or a personality disorder.

These are things that need to be taken into consideration.

I don't believe there is a genocide; I think the reason this issue has gotten so much traction and backlash in the mainstream is due to the fact that it stopped being about "people minding their own business and just wanting to be themselves" and escalated to involving kids.

In 2022 thre wre 174 anti-trns blls introdcd

In 4 mnths of 2023 thre hve bn 533 anti-trns blls intrducd

Conservtve commnt8trs publclly sayng "For the good of society … transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely — the whole preposterous ideology, at every level."

= alwys frstr8tng 2 C whn ppl confl8 makng publc spce fr gnuine transgndr ppl wth 'validating, appeasing, and restructuring society for every whimsical gender identity' -- = as tho ppl wth genrl existentl cnfusn r all lumpd in wth gnuinly dysphorc ppl in an aim 2 dismss dysphric ppl alng wth othr ppl wh/ d/ nt hve dysphria - thy r diffrnt issus -- 1 grp hs a medcl cnditn & th/ othr ds nt

Srely tht = wht propr psychlgcl spport & screenng = fr

If th/ issu ws jst abt minrs thn thre wld nt b sch an xtreme numbr of bills aimed @ treatmnt of trans adlts

What the Science on Gender-Affirming Care for Transgender Kids Really Shows

Laws that ban gender-affirming treatment ignore the wealth of research demonstrating its benefits for trans people’s health

www.scientificamerican.com

if childrn wre th/ gnuine cncern thn thy wld follw th/ science of hw 2 treat trns childrn instd of politcns spoutng ideolgy & ignorng science 2 drve up fear & divisn 2 win votes

= 1 thng if a parnt = nervs abt effcts of potentl medcatns bcse thre r horrr stries out thre -- rghtly or wrngly -- bt thre = 0 sgn tht ths politcn = allowng hr chld 2 soclly transitn & 'try out' tht identty & allw thm 2 psycholgcly procss n.ethng

I.m.o thy r a Republcn politcn lookng fr Republcn votes & thy wll d/ tht @ th/ xpense of th/ wll-being of thr chld

 

[Forever Sleep]

I highly recommend not using the word "commit" when talking about suicide, instead use "died by suicide" "took their life" "ended their life". Suicide isn't a crime. Your not gonna say for someone that died from a heart attack say they "committed a heart attack"

I've always found this interesting. I do see where you're coming from- commit usually is used when related to commiting a crime. I think of it in terms of commitment though = intention. If I commit suicide- I intended to do it. It won't be something that happens to me. I won't have 'died by suicide'- It wasn't something I caught- it's something I chose to do. True- you don't commit a heart attack because you didn't choose it. We DO choose to die though when we commit to killing ourselves. Anyhow- not meaning to have a go at you. I suppose it's just how we perceive the word.

In terms of the OP though- I agree- it's just plain appalling.

 

[BookPostponed]

People are born without limbs organs etc, why is it so hard to believe people are born in the wrong body? I always tell my nb coworker this is just having a birth defect and I can't understand why people who believe in assigned genders only make it so complicated

 

[NorthernMonkey]

The mother is taking a risk that's for sure. I imagine she is dearly hanging on to the notion of it being just a phase. It must be difficult as a parent but at the same time they need to accept their children for who they are, and not who they want them to be. So she either loses her child through suicide or loses her when she leaves home as soon as possible and wants nothing to do with her unsupportive mother.

 

[axxxu]

They're not even trying to hide it anymore, they want trans people dead.

People will always make up arguments for young trans people and why they shouldn't do this or that. Puberty blockers and hrt can be reversed, but it's not essential, they should be allowed to express their identity without being told all this ridiculous bullshit people keep spewing out. What they need is support, love, and protection. We are taking away all these things from them and expect them not to be suicidal or become "fixed" being trans isn't a choice and that's so painful when others don't understand that.

 

[SpiderLink]

I've always found this interesting. I do see where you're coming from- commit usually is used when related to commiting a crime. I think of it in terms of commitment though = intention. If I commit suicide- I intended to do it. It won't be something that happens to me. I won't have 'died by suicide'- It wasn't something I caught- it's something I chose to do. True- you don't commit a heart attack because you didn't choose it. We DO choose to die though when we commit to killing ourselves. Anyhow- not meaning to have a go at you. I suppose it's just how we perceive the word.

In terms of the OP though- I agree- it's just plain appalling.

We do choose to take our lives, but not everyone that's suicidal wants to die. They want their pain to end. Commit is often used in a crime setting. But "I intend to die by suicide" is a less, aggressive word to use.

 

[WorthlessCoward]

Nice mom

 

[WaitingToGo]

What a disgusting excuse for a mother. Contrast her with my own parents who both sadly passed. Both Mom and my Dad supported me during my transition even though it was more unusual and rarer 40 years ago. I was their child and they loved me unconditionally.

 

[Linda]

This news was in NBC News website A Montana politician said she would rather risk her daughter commiting suicide than allowing gender affirming surgery. She said she knows her daughter is suicidal but she called it an emotional manipulation. She said this during a speech in the legislative chamber in Montana. She is a Republican pro-lifer. What kind of mother is she? She also said that it's for her daughter's own good. How is that this is for the daughter's own good? The daughter killing herself for own good? This shows the pro lifers don't care about the life. This is all power trip, ego and hatred towards the trans people. She is just being in a stand off with her teen daughter. I really feel sorry for the daughter who is going feel trapped until she could make her decisions on her own and emotional suffering she is going go through. With this kind of parents no wonder a lot of teens in the US are suicidal. If the daughter actually commits suicide then this parent will shift blame on everything else except on her. She doesn't care about her child's life or well being. Her own power politics is more important than her own child. If the daughter happens to be in SS just imagine.

She needs to be careful that she doesn't push her daughter into suicide. Remember Leelah Alcorn.

 

[AerialBoundaries]

Religious fundamentalists are of great detriment to the progress of our society.

 

[Jezzibell]

I highly recommend not using the word "commit" when talking about suicide, instead use "died by suicide" "took their life" "ended their life". Suicide isn't a crime. Your not gonna say for someone that died from a heart attack say they "committed a heart attack"

It strange that this is your first reaction.

 

[borderline-feline]

She needs to be careful that she doesn't push her daughter into suicide. Remember Leelah Alcorn.

I remember hearing about her death back when I was in high school. I still think that any parent who pushes their kid to suicide like that should be charged with murder.