Discussion “Misogyny” Hypocrisy

[*Hope*]

I don't normally get involved in gender wars (Men vs Women), I find it childish. However, there is something that always bugs me, and I'm sure many see it the same way:

Isn't it hypocritical that people who complain about mysogyny are usually misandrists themselves? It's honestly so prevalent, that misandry is somehow socially acceptable.

And before anyone repeats the classic "it's punching up, therefore it's okay", no it's not, and the fact that you consider it "punching up" indicates you find men to be above women, which makes you a mysognist yourself.

I for one agree that mysogyny is a problem, but misandry is equally problematic, and yet it's rarely talked about

 

[DizzyFolfy]

I do think it's something that needs to be addressed. I'm all for feminism and equality, but few times I do feel like one is putting down the other instead of lifting eachother up to equality. I think to myself maaaybe we should hit the brakes on this one.

 

[Pluto]

There are legitimate grievances facing people, particularly low-status people, of all genders. The results for those individuals can be devastating.

It is not easy for someone in that state to then start empathising with people whose grievances are at the opposite end of the spectrum. (Such as excessive attention vs. extreme isolation.)

There is a place for talking about grievances facing specific groups, but on the whole, the only true solution would be a society of universal respect and compassion. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[*Hope*]

I do think it's something that needs to be addressed. I'm all for feminism and equality, but few times I do feel like one is putting down the other instead of lifting eachother up to equality. I think to myself maaaybe we should hit the brakes on this one.

Agreed, the whole "punching up" mentality only made things worse in my opinion. I honestly don't remember there being so many misogynists and misandrists in the past

There are legitimate grievances facing people, particularly low-status people, of all genders. The results for those individuals can be devastating.

It is not easy for someone in that state to then start empathising with people whose grievances are at the opposite end of the spectrum. (Such as excessive attention vs. extreme isolation.)

There is a place for talking about grievances facing specific groups, but on the whole, the only true solution would be a society of universal respect and compassion. I'm not holding my breath.

What do you mean with "low-status"? Like financially?

 

[1MiserableGuy]

Leave it to liberals to infiltrate the lone place where you can say "I would rather die than live" without getting taken down, so they can take you down for everything else

 

[WhiteRabbit]

I honestly don't remember there being so many misogynists and misandrists in the past

How old are you? Misogyny obviously has a long history and has always been very prevalent.

I don't agree that most of the people complaining about misogyny today are also misandrists. Where are you getting that from?

I do agree with you that misandry is also problematic. Nobody should to be put down because of their gender.

 

[Beyond_Repair]

I don't normally get involved in gender wars (Men vs Women), I find it childish. However, there is something that always bugs me, and I'm sure many see it the same way:

Isn't it hypocritical that people who complain about mysogyny are usually misandrists themselves? It's honestly so prevalent, that misandry is somehow socially acceptable.

And before anyone repeats the classic "it's punching up, therefore it's okay", no it's not, and the fact that you consider it "punching up" indicates you find men to be above women, which makes you a mysognist yourself.

I for one agree that mysogyny is a problem, but misandry is equally problematic, and yet it's rarely talked about

Yeah "feminism" can be used to support some really toxic behaviors/beliefs. I used to consider myself a feminist because I thought that meant advocating for equality, but now I identify more as an egalitarian if anything.

And I agree, the idea that it's okay for women to treat men poorly because they're somehow above them only reinforces the idea that you don't see men and women as equal, which is sexist

 

[damyon]

Agreed, the whole "punching up" mentality only made things worse in my opinion. I honestly don't remember there being so many misogynists and misandrists in the past

I suspect extreme polarization is often observed in such topics.
For example, the same dynamics be noted in Division of opinions on Eugenics (due to Nazi German mostly)

I think the main reason for having polarization of such a degree is that it can generate a large following from one of the sides. A common tactic in politics: e.g., my post about racial equality and my post about incels and why they become like that.
Additionally, people naturally converge toward bipolar equilibrium (two extremist sides) if the war is not ended early. To defeat a monster, you must become an even greater monster yourself.

~~~
An alternative, simpler explanation is that "gender war" is stimulating for participants without causing immediate harm (e.g., physical pain)
It probably happens because people do not yet have a direction in life (e.g., young people) and instead spend most of their energy/time on that, just as people spend time enjoying food, entertainment, or other pleasures.

Not saying that it is right or wrong, it is just a hypothesis.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Don't worry, I've learned to combat misogyny by internalizing misandry. Surely nothing bad could ever come from that. I'm serious.

I understand that me simply existing as an incel is already a huge detriment to women and that I should be ashamed for being such. If we were all to die then maybe the world can finally heal a little bit.

 

[Lifeaffirmingchoice]

Don't worry, I've learned to combat misogyny by internalizing misandry. Surely nothing bad could ever come from that. I'm serious.

I understand that me simply existing as an incel is already a huge detriment to women and that I should be ashamed for being such. If we were all to die then maybe the world can finally heal a little bit.

It's wonderful you have this self awareness and compassion for women. May you find peace soon.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

It's wonderful you have this self awareness and compassion for women. May you find peace soon.

I hope I find peace somehow too but I reject the notion that my self awareness is wonderful because I've had it for as long as I can remember but I have nothing to show for it. Many many years and yet I've done nothing useful with it except complain all the time. Even if my complaining ever culminates in a suicide one day it will be too little too late. My compassion for women is also probably just a facade. A masterfully manipulative mechanism meant to subconsciously influence the minds of impressionable female minds and make them wonder how I've been this single for so long. The answer is that I'm terrible and everyone but especially women should stay away from me for their own good.

 

[Lifeaffirmingchoice]

I hope I find peace somehow too but I reject the notion that my self awareness is wonderful because I've had it for as long as I can remember but I have nothing to show for it. Many many years and yet I've done nothing useful with it except complain all the time. Even if my complaining ever culminates in a suicide one day it will be too little too late. My compassion for women is also probably just a facade. A masterfully manipulative mechanism meant to subconsciously influence the minds of impressionable female minds and make them wonder how I've been this single for so long. The answer is that I'm terrible and everyone but especially women should stay away from me for their own good.

If that's the case then if you do ctb you'll be protecting women as well, which is still compassionate! Anyway it sounds like a painful state to be in and you deserve peace regardless of the rest of the world.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

If that's the case then if you do ctb you'll be protecting women as well, which is still compassionate! Anyway it sounds like a painful state to be in and you deserve peace regardless of the rest of the world.

Fair enough, but don't feel too sorry for me. I deserve no sympathy. Even if I CTB right now, which I'm not prepared to do, it would already have been too late but I guess better late than never.

 

[Meteora]

Both is not good. I think because women have been systematically suppressed and abused for centuries by men, that is a very bad heritage for the younger men today. I think it is good if men are aware of the injustice women had to endure JUST because they were women (and still have today!).
It is good if men are empathetic towards the history of female suppression, they shouldn t deny what happened. Female shouldn't use the history of their ancestors to discriminate, devaluate men.
It s complex and my English is not good enough to explain what I really mean, nor is my brain/concentration. All I m trying to say, respect and understanding is the only thing that helps bring the sexes together instead of splitting them.

Edit:
What I personally realise more and more is that there are a lot of men out there who cannot handle a smart woman. They need to belittle them. That's very sad and surely the younger generation of women will run away in no time from such men.

 

[leavingthesoultrap]

I hate both genders. Is that fair?

 

[Meteora]

I hate both genders. Is that fair?

I hate all humans :D.

 

[damyon]

It is good if men are empathetic towards the history of female suppression, they shouldn t deny what happended. Female shouldn't use the history of their ancestors to discriminate, devaluate men.

I am not defending either side (men/women) in the conflict...

Why should current men be empathetic towards current women if certain events occurred centuries ago? Although I don't know what you mean exactly here, apologies for misunderstanding
Wouldn't ignoring the past and focusing on the present moment be more practical? I believe this is how the current problems should be solved.

For example, let's consider contemporary African Americans: why should current generations be obligated to pay reparations to individuals who already enjoy the same freedoms as everyone else?
Racism exists now, and that is exactly the point. It is the current problem that should be solved, not the problem of the past. It was what it was.

 

[derpyderpins]

I don't normally get involved in gender wars (Men vs Women), I find it childish. However, there is something that always bugs me, and I'm sure many see it the same way:

Isn't it hypocritical that people who complain about mysogyny are usually misandrists themselves? It's honestly so prevalent, that misandry is somehow socially acceptable.

And before anyone repeats the classic "it's punching up, therefore it's okay", no it's not, and the fact that you consider it "punching up" indicates you find men to be above women, which makes you a mysognist yourself.

I for one agree that mysogyny is a problem, but misandry is equally problematic, and yet it's rarely talked about

Serious opinion: women are more valuable than men and also now on equal power footing, so misandry is natural and will continue to grow.

Women are more valuable from an evolutionary standpoint given they can produce offspring. Men balanced this by being physically stronger. Women countered this to an extent by being the "fairer" sex, beautiful and able to influence men with sex drive. Men had a time of what is perceived as oppressive dominance. Physical strength is no longer as valuable, and women are taking their turn in a position of societal power.

You're going to continue seeing a large percentage of men hopeless and giving up. Lonely men will keep fawning over women who will know they can have their pick, but only want the top % or bust.

So, we're in this place where women have power (yes, yes, maybe not in terms of being president, etc., but at a local level in social circles) while being chased after. Women are fine saying bad things about men because men will still beg for their attention, and men will say bad things about men to try and gain favor with women. This leads to the imbalance you observe.

I think it's something we have to learn to live with, for better or worse.

You can see this all over this board, including this thread.

 

[Meteora]

Why should current men be empathetic towards current women if certain events occurred centuries ago? Although I

The Holocaust happenend over 80 years ago. The repercussions are very alive, obviously (Mideast conflict). I was not even born but I feel truly sorry for what happend in WW2. You know what I mean?

Wouldn't ignoring the past and focusing on the present moment be more practical? I believe this is how the current problems should be solved.

I think both is possible at the same time. Not denying, validating the past and living in the present.

For example, let's consider contemporary African Americans: why should current generations be obligated to pay reparations to individuals who already enjoy the same freedoms as everyone else?

Because nobody exists without history. And there is transgenerational trauma. So most likely, what happened to African Americans as slaves still lives in the young generation through genes. History can not easily be erased. It actually cannot be erased at all.

 

[eatantz]

The Holocaust happenend over 80 years ago. The repercussions are very alive, obviously (Mideast conflict). I was not even born but I feel truly sorry for what happend in WW2. You know what I mean?

I think both is possible at the same time. Not denying, validating the past and living in the present.

Because nobody exists without history. And there is transgenerational trauma. So most likely, what happened to African Americans as slaves still lives in the young generation through genes. History can not easily be erased. It actually cannot be erased at all.

Perfect counter argument, you articulated my thoughts perfectly!