Man's search fro meaning by Victor Frankl

[randal_bond]

I'm currently reading this book of a concentration camp survivor and a psychotherapist who managed to go through it all with his sense of self still there and went on to develop his method called logotherapy to help others.
I'm at the earlier stages where he analyses daily life in a camp from psychological point of view and find that I can relate a lot. I grew up with a BPD/NPD mother (narcissistic and and borderline personality disorders) and had similar experience of being completely erased as personality on a daily basis. You probably know that Cluster B PD people treat others as tools that can be useful for their personal needs and discard them when they're no longer needed. Looks like she also had Munchausen by Proxy Syndrom because, being a doctor, she repeatedly poisoned me with all sorts of medications and foods I was allergic to, then rushed me to hospital and played a role of a doting mom who completely put her life on hold to take care of her child. She received huge amount of praise from the personnel and extended family and was hailed as a hero. Meantime, I was known as a sickly child. So, there's some resemblance with what was going on in concentration camps as well. She was extremely sadistic and promiscuous. I know I was sexually abused as a very young child. Later on I carried a lot of shame about it.
All in all, I find this book a very introspective read with helpful tips for me. I believe at least some of you will find it useful, too.

DISCLAIMER: (knowing how internet blame games work): IN NO WAY DO I CONSIDER MY OWN EXPERIENCES ON THE SAME PAR AS WHAT PEOPLE IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS WENT THROUGH. NEITHER DO I DOWNPLAY THE ONGOING ABUSE THAT WAS HAPPENING TO ME AND MESSED ME FOR LIFE.

 

[Someone123]

I have read this book several times. I know thw concentration camps were horrible, but there is one thing that peoepl don't think about in relaton to this usually. If a prisoner decides that the pain is too much they can run for it and they'll be shot and killed, or they can attack a guard and they'll be killed, or they can stop eating and they'll die very soon. So whenever they decide the pain is too much they can choose to leave this world. It is a horrible, terrible injustice what happened to these people. But some people who are really suffering and want to leave can't, and the suffering goes on and on. The most common way was when a person gave up because the pain was too much they would stop eating- this did happen a lot. ANd they were so malnourished it didn't take long to pass then.

 

[randal_bond]

It stood out for me, too. I know well now that death is not the worst thing by any means. But life often is. My guess is a few of us would like to be there because it would make things, not easier but possible. Of course, there was always a chance to end up in the oven or be suffocated by Cyclon B, which is not the way anyone wants to die. But, yes, having a choice is always a great thing. Also, they seemed to have a sense of community and life-long friendships were forged. Many of suicidal people are completely alone and if not, then completely misunderstood and not supported. Unless one's having a psychosis, being suicidal is the result of hopelessness and helplessness.

Can you relate even a bit to what they were going through psychologically? And what do you think about logotherapy? It's basically CBT, isn't it?

 

[ncmxm]

You probably know that Cluster B PD people treat others as tools that can be useful for their personal needs and discard them when they're no longer needed.

Maybe recommend your book without shitting on other people? Can't be that difficult, this sentence was completely unnecessary and had no connection to your book *whatsoever and you still had to say it

You do realise that a lot of people here have bpd right? And no it isn't even true, it's not a trait all people with bpd have

 

[Celerity]

I am glad that you were able to get something out of this book. For some reason, Frankl's perspective just didn't resonate me. I'm not sure why. I suspect I may be too dissimilar to him personality-wise.

I have always suspected that I would have died very early on under the circumstances Frankl survived.

 

[noaccount]

Maybe recommend your book without shitting on other people? Can't be that difficult, this sentence was completely unnecessary and had no connection to your book *whatsoever and you still had to say it

You do realise that a lot of people here have bpd right? And no it isn't even true, it's not a trait all people with bpd have

You're entirely correct and I would add this:

Predictably, Amber Heard Just Got Diagnosed With BPD and HPD

Official home of VictimFocus and Dr Jessica Taylor. Dedicated to fighting victim blaming of adults and children who have been affected by sexual violence, abuse and trauma. Delivering consultancy, training, psychology of abuse, resources and e-learning for professionals and public all over the...

www.victimfocus.org.uk

"It is vital that everyone understands that these diagnoses are not proven medical conditions, they are highly contested, controversial psychiatric labels. They are often introduced into family law, private law, and even criminal law cases where a woman is reporting domestic or sexual abuse.

Hysteria and histrionic personality disorder became known as the 'wastebasket of mental health', with many influential scholars rejecting their existence. Women could be diagnosed with these terms for not smiling enough, not giving men enough sex, being lesbian or bisexual, being too assertive, too opinionated, leaving their husbands, or even reading too many books.

It is outrageous that in 2022, a psychologist would testify on the stand that a woman has 'histrionic personality disorder' considering the wealth of evidence that it is nothing more than a made up, misogynistic label to beat women with.

And as controversial as this may become, the same arguments can be made for BPD. Yet another junk diagnosis thrown at women, with bisexual women more likely to be diagnosed, women at least seven times more likely to be diagnosed than men, and women being significantly more likely to be diagnosed during and after abuse."

 

[worst.therapist]

great book, im almost finishing it, really recommend

it really teaches us to understand alot of internal feelings (atleast for me)

i got it online and on PT/BR, so i don't know if it is exactly the same way as you guys got, but at the introduction there was a situation where a therapist ask to her patient something like "Why don't kill youself then?", after complaining about stuff

made me realise that my CTB was kinda a lie to myself, if i really wanted to die, i won't be here typing, i would just do it (i know its not that simple...) so i understood it was more a escapism lie that i would tell to myself looking for comfort (that applies for me, and how i comprehended it, can be different for you)

Maybe recommend your book without shitting on other people? Can't be that difficult, this sentence was completely unnecessary and had no connection to your book *whatsoever and you still had to say it

You do realise that a lot of people here have bpd right? And no it isn't even true, it's not a trait all people with bpd have

perfect, as the same way the nazi's used the victims as tools... i don't think they all were BPD or serial killers

i'm sorry for all you went through with your mom, life gets hard when the supposed one to love and teaches us about the world.. well shitty on us

Hugs!

 

[randal_bond]

great book, im almost finishing it, really recommend

it really teaches us to understand alot of internal feelings (atleast for me)

i got it online and on PT/BR, so i don't know if it is exactly the same way as you guys got, but at the introduction there was a situation where a therapist ask to her patient something like "Why don't kill youself then?", after complaining about stuff

made me realise that my CTB was kinda a lie to myself, if i really wanted to die, i won't be here typing, i would just do it (i know its not that simple...) so i understood it was more a escapism lie that i would tell to myself looking for comfort (that applies for me, and how i comprehended it, can be different for you)



perfect, as the same way the nazi's used the victims as tools... i don't think they all were BPD or serial killers

i'm sorry for all you went through with your mom, life gets hard when the supposed one to love and teaches us about the world.. well shitty on us

Hugs!

So, logotherapy is nothing else but a glorified CBT? You know, I believe I had it all before. Re-framing your mind is something that every religion does. And, actually, much more than that. Giving you meaning and purpose in life, plus community of like-minded people. Plus, meditation (that's what prayer is, in my experience). Religion was the only thing that allowed me to live through years of abuse and not lose my mind. However, when I came out on the other side, I realized that it didn't solve a single one of my problems, didn't make me "a new person", didn't remove the abuser and didn't protect my self-esteem or general health, physical and mental. It only made me more resilient and allowed to endure more than I would have done otherwise.
For that reason, I don't see how CBT can help. Thinking differently about your problem doesn't solve it or make it less detrimental. As for the reason for not killing ourselves, it can be as easy as survival instinct repeatedly kicking in and making you bodge every single attempt. I suspect, there're plenty of people who have nothing to live for but can't bring themselves to CTB.

 

[randal_bond]

Maybe recommend your book without shitting on other people? Can't be that difficult, this sentence was completely unnecessary and had no connection to your book *whatsoever and you still had to say it

You do realise that a lot of people here have bpd right? And no it isn't even true, it's not a trait all people with bpd have

I don't have any time for people who use others as punching bags to regulate their haywire emotions and then play victims. It's high time to speak up for real victims - the ones who suffer from the likes of you in silence. And usually behind closed doors.

 

[ncmxm]

I don't have any time for people who use others as punching bags to regulate their haywire emotions and then play victims. It's high time to speak up for real victims - the ones who suffer from the likes of you in silence. And usually behind closed doors.

That's literally what you just did but okay

Of course only you are the real victim here

Also nice of you diagnosing me with bpd even though I never said I have it, I just don't like assholes like you shitting even more on already marginalized people

Take care sweetheart
Oh yeah and maybe also read a book that teaches compassion for people who also suffer from mental health issues like you
Although on second thought I have to admit I acted kinda like randal_bond in my recent post about parents so I'll try to not act like this in the future

 

[noaccount]

I don't have any time for people who use others as punching bags to regulate their haywire emotions and then play victims. It's high time to speak up for real victims - the ones who suffer from the likes of you in silence. And usually behind closed doors.

You need to shut the fuck up, ncmxm didn't victimize you or anyone else, you're just making up absurd lies and character attacks and we can all see it. Play the world's smallest violin all you want, no one is listening.

 

[Ashu]

The single most liberating book I ever read. Unfortunately, it didn't take me long, in my newfound liberty, to re-imprison myself in the consequences of a couple of disastrously stupid decisions.

 

[ayb]

a

I'm currently reading this book of a concentration camp survivor and a psychotherapist who managed to go through it all with his sense of self still there and went on to develop his method called logotherapy to help others.
I'm at the earlier stages where he analyses daily life in a camp from psychological point of view and find that I can relate a lot. I grew up with a BPD/NPD mother (narcissistic and and borderline personality disorders) and had similar experience of being completely erased as personality on a daily basis. You probably know that Cluster B PD people treat others as tools that can be useful for their personal needs and discard them when they're no longer needed. Looks like she also had Munchausen by Proxy Syndrom because, being a doctor, she repeatedly poisoned me with all sorts of medications and foods I was allergic to, then rushed me to hospital and played a role of a doting mom who completely put her life on hold to take care of her child. She received huge amount of praise from the personnel and extended family and was hailed as a hero. Meantime, I was known as a sickly child. So, there's some resemblance with what was going on in concentration camps as well. She was extremely sadistic and promiscuous. I know I was sexually abused as a very young child. Later on I carried a lot of shame about it.
All in all, I find this book a very introspective read with helpful tips for me. I believe at least some of you will find it useful, too.

DISCLAIMER: (knowing how internet blame games work): IN NO WAY DO I CONSIDER MY OWN EXPERIENCES ON THE SAME PAR AS WHAT PEOPLE IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS WENT THROUGH. NEITHER DO I DOWNPLAY THE ONGOING ABUSE THAT WAS HAPPENING TO ME AND MESSED ME FOR LIFE.

Frankl's Logotherapy has been used to justify numerous injustices that cause immense suffering in the world. Poverty, homelessness, lack of adequate healthcare access, etc. All with the principle being that one can always find 'meaning' in the worst suffering and be stoic by accepting it. It's aggressively peddled by religious therapists and pastors especially Christians with how much they see suffering as a virtue. Frankl himself was a practicing Jew, and believed in God and derived most of his meaning in such religious beliefs. It influenced his work, and he is not a secularist (as much as Christians like to pretend he is).

 

[randal_bond]

a

Frankl's Logotherapy has been used to justify numerous injustices that cause immense suffering in the world. Poverty, homelessness, lack of adequate healthcare access, etc. All with the principle being that one can always find 'meaning' in the worst suffering and be stoic by accepting it. It's aggressively peddled by religious therapists and pastors especially Christians with how much they see suffering as a virtue. Frankl himself was a practicing Jew, and believed in God and derived most of his meaning in such religious beliefs. It influenced his work, and he is not a secularist (as much as Christians like to pretend he is).

Thanks for info about Logotherapy. Reframing things can be very helpful if you have to live with them and don't have an escape. I would never go back to religious beliefs because, once you see things the way they are, you can't unsee them. Neither would I allow any psychotherapist mess with my brain brainwashing me. But I could manage better while it lasted. One can't deny that all our thoughts are based on our beliefs as foundation. We see and interpret the world through them. That's why they're so hard to change - it's like pulling rug from underneath of your feet. Most people never question them. And often we accept main ideology of society we live in just to fit in and feel safe and not alone. Rejection hurts.

People are not so keen on religion nowadays. But they will always have a substitute. One of the new-fangled stuff is being pc. As any religion, this one is open to interpretation (look how definition of racism has changed, for example). That's why there're more and more topics where people would shy away. It's just not safe to say what you think anymore. I do the same. I allow myself to think what I think but don't share it with anybody. It's lonely, but the scariest thing would be to lose your ability to think independently.

Good evening.

 

[noname223]

It is on my book list. David Foster Wallace wrote about it in Hideous Man. I am very slow reader I don't know whether I will ever read it. But some parts which DFW described resonated well with me. I was abused by mom since the age of 5. I think I never could be that strong. The way my mom raised me broke me completely. How your dignity gets taken away. Humiliation and violence and no escape.

 

[randal_bond]

It is on my book list. David Foster Wallace wrote about it in Hideous Man. I am very slow reader I don't know whether I will ever read it. But some parts which DFW described resonated well with me. I was abused by mom since the age of 5. I think I never could be that strong. The way my mom raised me broke me completely. How your dignity gets taken away. Humiliation and violence and no escape.

I know, right? Not every adult should become a parent. This forum is full of abuse victims. It's also full of abusers, ironically.

I know, right? Not every adult should become a parent. This forum is full of abuse victims. It's also full of abusers, ironically.

Thank you for hugs, lovely. I really need them. I sometimes even hug myself ))).