Male Suicide

[DJJE]

This is a topic that really annoys me.

Suicide in the UK is not currently a bigger killer than COVID.

Suicide is a bigger killer than COVID in the UK than in the under 50s.

Women are 5 times more likely to get diagnosed with a mental health illness than men. I believe the reasons for this are that

1) Men are less likely to go and see a GP.
2) Men are much worse at explaining their feelings than women, so when they see their GP they are less likely to be understood. The lack of ability to express oneself is further compounded by mental health problems.
3) Despite 1 & 2, there is an unconscious bias to believe men are strong and women aren't. Therefore, a GP will not dig deeper with a male patient that bothers turning up and poorly explains their symptoms. They will just spin them around and push them out the door.

GP's listen to people who make the most fuss. That's unlikely to be suicidal males.

How can a group be 5 times less likely to be diagnosed, but 4 times more likely to die.

Because of fear of ageism. We can't leave facilities open specifically for the under 50's. The most suicidal and least threatened by COVID. The government and NHS know who the at risk group are and refuse to do anything. They are ignored again.

Now, I don't think mental health is an excuse for any kind of antisocial behaviour, but antisocial behaviour and domestic violence are all linked with mental health issue with men. If we start to properly ask if men are OK then maybe crimes can be eliminated before they happen? Potentially improving the mental health of many women too.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

I thought about this recently too. Being a man in 2020 is thankless, and you're quite likely to be either completely invisible to society or else noticed only for the wrong reasons (doubt, suspicion, etc). When I think how totally unnoticed I've been throughout my life, the overall feeling is one of a massive void or emptiness, not even receiving basic validation in the form of a compliment or a simple acknowledgment of anything I do well. I also get the feeling that my experience in this regard is very common for males.

The points raised in your post are no doubt also contributing factors.

 

[AutoTap]

Yeh, where I live in America men are not really suppose to express vulnerable negative emotions.

 

[hoping to lose hope]

Woman are more likely to be borderline and borderlines typically do impulsive attempts which do not work and fail hence men die at much higher rate but woman attempt more.
INB4 flames I am bpd/....
Depends what country though OP.
My brain is fried and tired I would love towrite my thoughtsout propererly sometime

 

[Soulless Angel]

I am a women, I get so pissed off that women are classed as OK as we see GPs, and that men are more likely to get NOT diagnosed, because for men it is harder, as a women i have no one to turn to and don't trust ANY medical profession at all
im drunk I can't debate this properly

 

[hoping to lose hope]

im drunk I can't debate this properly

top kek half of respinders so far not mentally able to debate.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

I think that one reason why men do not open up about their feelings is not because they lack the ability to, but rather they refuse to open up because they do not feel as if their voice is valued in the current climate. Men can be demonised quite a lot by some media outlets and are blamed for many problems in the world. They are told that they do not have it as worse as others; any hardship that they are facing, or have faced, is simply dismissed and are talked down to. We tell men that they should talk more about their problems, but how can they talk about their problems when they are told that their struggles do not exist?

A big problem they face right now is they are fighting a battle that cannot be won. For example: If a boy or man does not express any emotions he is told that he suffers from "toxic masculinity", and with this term comes all of the usual criticisms of their gender - that they are insensitive, violent and lack empathy. On the other hand: If a boy or man does express any emotions, especially if it is anger or disgust, it is called "male fragility"; which is a term often used to mock males who show upset at a situation; sometimes by the same individuals and group(s) that implore them to be more expressive in the first place. There is always a fancy term used to scrutinize their behaviour in some way. It does not matter what males say or do - it is used against them. Society claims to want them to be more gentle and sensitive, but still try to enforce the standard that they should be tough and resilient at the same time, and it is enough to tear anyones sanity in half - cognitive dissonance.

I believe this is where the issue lies: We talk an awful lot about what is wrong with men, as if all of their flaws are internal, but not many talk about how we treat them. Only one side of the argument is ever viewed.

 

[Giraffey]

I wish that such topics could be discussed without constant references to gender; yes, there are epidemiological differences between mental illness in men and women, but when identity politics are introduced one sex is inevitably denigrated in favour of another; in the current climate, my experience is that it is sadly often men who are prey to that toxic narrative.

Going slightly off-topic:

Spoiler

To veer slightly off-topic, the same issue of identity politics is prevalent in the way that domestic violence is handled. Just a few years ago, I confessed to a police officer that my ex-partner had beaten me. I was covered in bruises, including many visible around my neck, I was sat on the floor surrounded by copious pills that I was preparing to gulp in a desperate attempt to die. My ex-partner phoned whilst the officer was there, she was checking up on me, I knew the consequences for speaking out, but I had to try. I confessed and the officer appeared sympathetic.

The officer disappeared and returned a few minutes later to inform me that I was being arrested on suspicion of assault of my ex-partner; as a man, I was presumed to be the guilty party. I read the statement given to the officer, my ex-partner had claimed I'd injured her wrist but the officer observed no injuries on her but noted extensive bruising to my body and neck; my ex had claimed this was "self-defence" which was laughable. They proceeded to arrest me regardless and took no action against my ex-partner. The next time I saw my ex, I paid a heavy price for what I said and I learned that as a man, I was never going to be seen as the victim, always as the perpetrator.

That is why I have so far starved myself for more than two weeks; because the same sexist prejudice and gendered stereotypes that afflict the mental health profession also affect the way victims of domestic abuse are treated - even now, years after the fact, there is not a single agency in my area that is equipped to offer me support as a male survivor. One support group gives a long speech about empowering female victims before acknowledging in small print: "but we accept men can be victims too".

There is such an awful pressure on men to keep their feelings to themselves; and when men do speak out, ask for help and are ignored, it reinforces the negative stereotypes and increases the pressure to internalise problems and just get on with it. I've seen some excellent progress be made on raising men's issues on both fronts, but when we have MPs in the British Parliament complaining that having a Minister for Men to achieve parity with the existing Minister for Women is "unnecessary", "sexist" and "misyognistic", men like me will keep our mouths shut and die in silence because there's nobody in power bothered about hearing our voices.

 

[hoping to lose hope]

I wish that such topics could be discussed without constant references to gender

Are you serious right now or meming hard?
Medical texts discuss gender based differences for disorders as male and females are different beyond a social construct.
This is like walking into a pie eating contest and saying I wish we could could eat pies without eating pies.
What are you saying?

No one is being rude with man or woman hate so let us discuss freely
.even if someone did go off the rails on men or woman just ignore it no need to be so fragile.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

I wish that such topics could be discussed without constant references to gender; yes, there are epidemiological differences between mental illness in men and women, but when identity politics are introduced one sex is inevitably denigrated in favour of another; in the current climate, my experience is that it is sadly often men who are prey to that toxic narrative.

Going slightly off-topic:

Spoiler

To veer slightly off-topic, the same issue of identity politics is prevalent in the way that domestic violence is handled. Just a few years ago, I confessed to a police officer that my ex-partner had beaten me. I was covered in bruises, including many visible around my neck, I was sat on the floor surrounded by copious pills that I was preparing to gulp in a desperate attempt to die. My ex-partner phoned whilst the officer was there, she was checking up on me, I knew the consequences for speaking out, but I had to try. I confessed and the officer appeared sympathetic.

The officer disappeared and returned a few minutes later to inform me that I was being arrested on suspicion of assault of my ex-partner; as a man, I was presumed to be the guilty party. I read the statement given to the officer, my ex-partner had claimed I'd injured her wrist but the officer observed no injuries on her but noted extensive bruising to my body and neck; my ex had claimed this was "self-defence" which was laughable. They proceeded to arrest me regardless and took no action against my ex-partner. The next time I saw my ex, I paid a heavy price for what I said and I learned that as a man, I was never going to be seen as the victim, always as the perpetrator.

That is why I have so far starved myself for more than two weeks; because the same sexist prejudice and gendered stereotypes that afflict the mental health profession also affect the way victims of domestic abuse are treated - even now, years after the fact, there is not a single agency in my area that is equipped to offer me support as a male survivor. One support group gives a long speech about empowering female victims before acknowledging in small print: "but we accept men can be victims too".

There is such an awful pressure on men to keep their feelings to themselves; and when men do speak out, ask for help and are ignored, it reinforces the negative stereotypes and increases the pressure to internalise problems and just get on with it. I've seen some excellent progress be made on raising men's issues on both fronts, but when we have MPs in the British Parliament complaining that having a Minister for Men to achieve parity with the existing Minister for Women is "unnecessary", "sexist" and "misyognistic", men like me will keep our mouths shut and die in silence because there's nobody in power bothered about hearing our voices.

I apologize if you were referring to my post, it was intended to criticise current identity politics not to reinforce them.

 

[Giraffey]

Are you serious right now or meming hard?
Medical texts discuss gender based differences for disorders as male and females are different beyond a social construct.
This is like walking into a pie eating contest and saying I wish we could could eat pies without eating pies.
What are you saying?

No one is being rude with man or woman hate so let us discuss freely
.even if someone did go off the rails on men or woman just ignore it no need to be so fragile.

I am a medical professional and have written and published some of my own aforementioned medical texts, in which I have referenced gender. For example, in discussing differences in response to a particular treatment between male and female samples. If you read my post in the proper context, you would see that I was making a point about identity politics, I was making a point about the political discourse and not about medical discussion.

I am not advocating for the predominantly woke ideology which at its extremity seeks to eradicate the notion of sex in favour of gender as a social construct, doing away with terms such as man and woman. But I do believe that certain issues such as access to mental health care, support services and domestic abuse should be discussed and provisioned without outdated and toxic gender stereotypes such as the one that I quoted above - men being assumed as perpetrators.

I would appreciate it if you took the time to engage with me constructively next time, particularly if you don't understand my point; instead of seeking to humiliate and patronise me with infantile references to a "pie-eating contest". I've seen you act like this with other members and I don't know whether it's an abrasive sense of humour or a genuine feeling of superiority, but when you might wish to employ some tact the next time you reply to somebody who has just shared a deeply painful experience about their own abuse instead of beginning with the phrase "are you serious right now or 'meming hard'".

Edit: @Sprite_Geist - I absolutely wasn't referring to your post, I'm sorry if it came across that way. I understood your point about identity politics, I agree with you wholeheartedly and was trying to extend the argument to make a complimentary point.

 

[hoping to lose hope]

I am a medical professional and have written and published some of my own aforementioned medical texts, in which I have referenced gender. For example, in discussing differences in response to a particular treatment between male and female samples. If you read my post in the proper context, you would see that I was making a point about identity politics, I was making a point about the political discourse and not about medical discussion.

I am not advocating for the predominantly woke ideology which at its extremity seeks to eradicate the notion of sex in favour of gender as a social construct, doing away with terms such as man and woman. But I do believe that certain issues such as access to mental health care, support services and domestic abuse should be discussed and provisioned without outdated and toxic gender stereotypes such as the one that I quoted above - men being assumed as perpetrators.

I would appreciate it if you took the time to engage with me constructively next time, particularly if you don't understand my point; instead of seeking to humiliate and patronise me with infantile references to a "pie-eating contest". I've seen you act like this with other members and I don't know whether it's an abrasive sense of humour or a genuine feeling of superiority, but when you might wish to employ some tact the next time you reply to somebody who has just shared a deeply painful experience about their own abuse instead of beginning with the phrase "are you serious right now or 'meming hard'".

Edit: @Sprite_Geist - I absolutely wasn't referring to your post, I'm sorry if it came across that way. I understood your point about identity politics, I agree with you wholeheartedly and was trying to extend the argument to make a complimentary point.

I only read few sentences and then shitposted a briandead response I honestly should not have posted at all here as I mentioned earlier.

No excuse :3 Will return after I slept and revisit your post.
Apologizes for any offense I caused on my part my spilling alphabet soup over my screen.

 

[Giraffey]

I only read few sentences and then shitposted a briandead response I honestly should not have posted at all here as I mentioned earlier.

No excuse :3 Will return after I slept and revisit your post.

No no, I criticised you for not engaging in an adult manner whilst hypocritically demonstrating exactly the same immature behaviour. I'm currently on a hunger strike and haven't eaten anything but water for weeks, it's affecting my mood and has left me with a short fuse. So, I hope you'll read this and feel less at fault; I'm sorry for speaking the way that I did, I guess we both need some sleep

Again, I'm sorry, particularly if I implied that you were in some way suffering less or any less vulnerable than the rest of us. If you do read the post again, or my response, I hope you'll do so with the context that I was the one to blame, short fuse tonight, sense of humour failure, didn't engage my social filter - you didn't deserve to be spoken to that way.

 

[hoping to lose hope]

No no, I criticised you for not engaging in an adult manner whilst hypocritically demonstrating exactly the same immature behaviour. I'm currently on a hunger strike and haven't eaten anything but water for weeks, it's affecting my mood and has left me with a short fuse. So, I hope you'll read this and feel less at fault; I'm sorry for speaking the way that I did, I guess we both need some sleep

Again, I'm sorry, particularly if I implied that you were in some way suffering less or any less vulnerable than the rest of us. If you do read the post again, or my response, I hope you'll do so with the context that I was the one to blame, short fuse tonight, sense of humour failure, didn't engage my social filter - you didn't deserve to be spoken to that way.

There is no need at all for you to apologize one bit.
I actually love to have debates and present my ideas in the best way possible to get critiqued and have a bit of back and forth.
The real winner of an argument is the loser for he has a chance to learn.
I honestly scrolled down the thread seen 5 words and just spat a low effort shitpost out.

I am working on not doing this I need to regulate my mood affecting my actions basically.
i will try get some sleep some time ahh very sorry.

 

[Giraffey]

There is no need at all for you to apologize one bit.
I actually love to have debates and present my ideas in the best way possible to get critiqued and have a bit of back and forth.
The real winner of an argument is the loser for he has a chance to learn.
I honestly scrolled down the thread seen 5 words and just spat a low effort shitpost out.

I am working on not doing this I need to regulate my mood affecting my actions basically.
i will try get some sleep some time ahh very sorry.

You have nothing to be sorry for @hoping to lose hope, and you weren't the only one who misunderstood my post. I also love to engage in debates and I completely agree with your point, the real winner of an argument is the loser - if you never lose an argument you're never forced to confront the weaknesses in your beliefs. You didn't make a low effort shitpost, you made your point passionately and with humour, which flew straight over my head the first time I read it - that was my fault.

Stupidly, I then made it personal which was completely out of order and I take back what I said. I've never seen you speak inappropriately to anyone on here, just the usual firey disagreements that we all have when we speak our minds honestly and with confidence. To write what I did was a cowardly debasing, were I not feeling so shitty at the moment I would have replied to you with clarification of my point and some questions, and we could have had a lovely debate - I snapped on an emotional impulse.

I just want to make clear that you did nothing wrong, this one was all on me. I don't want to derail this thread any further, but I will send you a PM.

 

[Green Destiny]

Speaking as a male I can agree with this sentiment. I mean I've managed to tell my mom twice that i've thought about killing myself and both times she more or less ignored what I said and told me I shouldn't think that way. That's it! She didn't offer comfort or trying to get a therapist or anything else.

 

[Kramer]

I thought about this recently too. Being a man in 2020 is thankless, and you're quite likely to be either completely invisible to society or else noticed only for the wrong reasons (doubt, suspicion, etc). When I think how totally unnoticed I've been throughout my life, the overall feeling is one of a massive void or emptiness, not even receiving basic validation in the form of a compliment or a simple acknowledgment of anything I do well. I also get the feeling that my experience in this regard is very common for males.

The points raised in your post are no doubt also contributing factors.

Going out in public as a lone male sucks. The emptiness is palpable.

 

[Amumu]

The gender ratio male/female is specific to Western societies.

In China for example women ctb more than men

This is a cultural issue.

 

[JustABunchOfAtoms]

Men are more likely to have successful suicide attempts, but overall more women attempt suicide. They have access to better education. Also they are more likely to have access to things like guns which have a higher success rate meaning that women often result in less successful methods like ODing

 

[grungeCat]

The problem are stereotypes of society about masculinity. Normies are too close-minded to understand that men also need emotional support and empathy. Instead they think men should be tough all the time and emotionless. This applies even to doctors and other people with high education because they are also human. The problem is worsening even more by the concept of 'gender war' propagated by both extreme left-wing and right-wing activists.

 

[lovelyheartz]

Maybe I'll get angry responses for saying this, but I'm jealous that men have a higher suicide rate. I wish I was born a man, so I could have an increased risk. Better to die of suicide than to live the rest of your life in pain, IMO.

 

[TwoTenEightyEight]

Suicide in the UK is not currently a bigger killer than COVID.

I have often wondered if many suicide cases were chalked up to Covid19 just to bump up those numbers. Our top brass are loving the issue of covid; they'll write the lockdowns into long standing law and enact what they want.

Well, I suppose us suicidals have a cover then, should we need it.