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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

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Oct 15, 2023
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Alternative Economic Indicators: Looking at the Market from a Different Angle

There are plenty of unconventional ways people try to understand the health of the economy—ways that go beyond the usual government stats. These include quirky but surprisingly telling benchmarks like:
• The Gold-to-Lumber Ratio
Yield Curve Spread
Consumer Confidence Index
The Fear Index (VIX)
• The Hooker Index
Unclaimed Corpse Index
Japanese Haircut Index
• The Ferrari Index
• The Rolex Index

Each one tells a story about spending habits, confidence, and economic cycles in its own weird, specific way.



Rolex Index: Watches as a Window Into Wealth

Rolex prices, in nominal terms, may look high—but once you adjust for inflation, they've mostly returned to where they were pre-COVID. There's been a lot going on:
• Rolex has bumped up its MSRP several times in 2023, 2024, and again for 2025.
• Even so, secondary market prices have continued to drop over the past couple of years.
• Some of today's Rolex prices are buoyed by newer, more expensive releases that didn't even exist in 2017.
• Most watches bought back in 2016 haven't gained much real value—except for models like the Daytona.
• But if you bought a Rolex any time after 2021, chances are you overpaid—they're now the cheapest they've been in years.

What happened? During COVID, Rolex (and pretty much every other luxury watch brand) became part of a broader speculative frenzy. People couldn't travel or spend money the usual way, so luxury goods became the outlet. Prices shot up. But now that the world has opened back up, we've seen a cooldown. It's not a crash—it's more of a return to normal. Long-term, the Rolex market still looks solid.



Ferrari Index: A Glimpse Into Discretionary Spending

Luxury cars, like watches, aren't essential—they reflect how confident (or flush) people feel.

During the 2022 luxury boom, prices went wild. Now? Many of them have come back to earth. Take the Ferrari SF90 for example—it went from about $1 million to $450,000. But that drop wasn't just the economy—it was also about the car itself:
• The SF90 turned out to be less exclusive than Ferrari initially suggested.
• It was seen as overpriced and less desirable, especially with newer models like the 296 Speciale offering similar performance for less.
• Ferrari's shaky track record with hybrid support (as seen with the LaFerrari) didn't help.

That said, Ferrari as a brand remains incredibly strong, even during downturns:
• Less than 15% of its sales come from China, giving it less exposure than other luxury brands.
• Around 70% of its revenue comes from repeat customers—which says a lot about loyalty.
• Their cars often sell out before production even begins.
• Despite increasing production from 5,000 cars a year (20 years ago) to over 13,000 now, Ferrari maintains exclusivity by releasing limited editions of their regular models.
• Ferrari isn't just a car company—it's a luxury brand, with brand licensing income and sky-high margins.

Buying a Ferrari isn't just about the car. You're buying the brand, the story, the prestige. And because of that, Ferrari is arguably recession-resistant.



The COVID Luxury Bubble and What Came After

Both Ferrari and Rolex were part of a huge wave of pandemic-era luxury spending. People had extra money, nowhere to go, and a desire for status or investment. The result? A surge in watches, cars, comics—you name it. Prices peaked around 2022.

Now? We've seen a pullback. But again, it's more of a reversion to the mean than a collapse. If you zoom out, things are mostly back in line with pre-COVID trends, maybe a little higher after accounting for inflation.



Other Offbeat Indicators of Economic Mood

Some other indicators people talk about:
• The Big Mac Index vs. Minimum Wage: This can be a helpful way to understand how much real purchasing power an average worker has. It's a good leading indicator for Main Street.
• The Ferrari and Stripper Indexes: These might be better seen as lagging indicators of luxury and discretionary income.
• The idea that candy is recession-proof: A former business owner once said that when people feel good, they buy candy. And when they feel broke, they still buy candy—just as a small treat. Makes sense, right? It's like the lipstick effect, where people turn to small luxuries when they can't afford the big ones.



Companies That Tend to Ride Out Recessions

There are a few brands that seem to do well no matter what the economy is doing:
Coca-Cola
McDonald's
Walmart

Why? Because they sell basic, affordable staples—the kind of stuff people keep buying even when they're tightening their belts.



Ferrari vs. GM: Brand vs. Scale

For context:
Ferrari stock is up ~16% year-to-date
Ferrari has an ~$80 billion market cap
GM, despite selling way more vehicles, is valued around $50 billion

That's the power of branding, pricing power, and perceived exclusivity. Ferrari has positioned itself more like a luxury goods company than a car manufacturer, and the market treats it that way.



(Edited, not written by ChatGPT)
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

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Oct 15, 2023
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@Pluto

Not nearly as exclusive anymore on limited releases. There are so many qualified people who can afford to buy the big stuff now. They are selling a ton more cars now.

People are turning down allocations because prices are so high and options are so high and because they keep getting destroyed on depreciation.

SF90 sales are struggling. Meanwhile Lamborghini Revuelto, sold out for years and (and selling over their original MSPR). High-end Porsche models, sold out for years. Ferrari lost what it had 30 years. I still think it's the stronger brand when compared to Lamborghini and Porsche but you see whats happening. In 2004 according to GoodCarBadCar.net, Ferrari sold 1,200 cars in the US. In 2022 they sold 5,000 cars in the US. That means that they as a company are making money they weren't making before. Which is important. The second element is, somebody like Porsche doing really, really well in the US market. Their sales were down to something like 28% in China last year-over-year. Just because they are hot in the US doesn't mean they are internationally in all markets. I wouldn't say that anybody is struggling. They are still going to sell these cars. However part of the reason that Ferrari has been successful over the last few decades is that people knew they could retain value in these cars. And what Ferarri has started to do is jack up the prices like crazy. They became a public company. I don't want to say they're greedy but they have to start being careful. When you're a public company you need to max your sales and revenue. Their flagship cars aren't selling and they don't have enough of the true flagship cars to keep people quiet. The cache of this brand is the whole game - that you can't get one.

Porsche is selling 911 ST's to a small number of people. Meanwhile they make all these Macans and Cayennes. They can sell boring BS cars as lease payment specials to randoms. To dentists and realtors and it's fine because they have this high-end. Porsche's brand is stronger than ever and selling more cars than ever.

A lot of the Ferrari enthusiasts would actually prefer some stuff about the old cars. The new ones have become convoluted, they're tremendously expensive, etc. older Ferraris are becoming to be more desirable.

They are kind of overproducing it seems like except for the very specialist cars it seems like Ferrari doesn't quite have the gravitas over those other brands that it once did.





The most expensive one of a kind Ferrari can't hold a candle to the toys owned by the billionaires who have yachts, ships, and airplanes. And, the Porsche Taycan Turbo GT has since surpassed the Tesla Model S Plaid's lap time by achieving a 7:07.55 minute record around the Nürburgring Nordschleife for production EVs. More recently, the Xiaomi SU7 Ultra has set a new record for the fastest production EV around the Nürburgring Nordschleife, with a lap time of 7:04.957, surpassing the Porsche Taycan Turbo GT and the Rimac Nevera Time Attack.

The moment of being fastest car on the Nurburgring Ring lasts but a moment. However we can have a series of best moments depending on what's important to us and how we evaluate and measure a moment of satisfaction, peace, or gratitude.

Tastes and values have changed from the 1950s. Back then there was no feminist awareness. Men looked at things differently and judged them differently. We are generationally removed from that. Automobile designers are influenced by the values of the culture they grow up in. Young designers today now have the values of today's culture. Describing a car as "voluptuous" was a common adjective for some designs back in the 1950s. I could say then that some Ferraris and some Italian car designers back then embraced or expressed those qualities. Now it would be criticized as dated and sexist. I would not describe any of today's cars as "voluptuous". Some design critics may still reference adjectives that are no longer contemporary or appropriate. Design is subjective anyway because design has always been in a dynamic relationship with culture.
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

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Oct 15, 2023
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@Pluto
Hi Kitty, 🐈‍⬛
Besides the cars which now are pretty well built with a 7 year service contract included with a new car purchase the brand has become the attraction. The former Pope visited Enzo in Modena and rode in a Ferrari in 1988, the year Enzo died. The Ferrari clothing is very expensive but seen at international car events. Because Ferrari has been a mainstay of Formula 1 racing since 1948 it has built reputation among followers of consistency and commitment, unlike other brands which come and go. Lamborghini only put a few years into F1. Other exotic brands like Bugatti, Koenigsegg, Rolls-Royce, Pagani don't take part in F1. Porsche, Mercedes, McLaren also make cars for the street and participate in F1. Rimac doesn't race. Aston-Martin is owned by Canadian Lawrence Stoll and Geely (China) which owns Lotus. McLaren is also still relatively "new."
 
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Pluto

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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

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Oct 15, 2023
2,421
@Pluto

For ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) engines 0-60 and 0-100 times are all about the amount of torque to the drive wheels. Also, without shifting, an ICE engine would be running maybe at 7-8000 rpm at 60 and in the 11,000 range at 100 which is due to the need for a gear ratio to get the torque to the drive wheels at an initial rpm which gets the vehicle moving from 0 mph. 8000 rpm is excessive for reliability and 11,000 rpm is impractical for all but hugely expensive competition engines. An old Ferrari race car engine would redlined at 8000 rpm. It had a 4 speed stick shift manual transmission. One would try to shift gears to remain in the 3000-7500 rpm range. As you know electric motors produce maximum torque when the vehicle is at 0 mph. The torque curve for street use EVs plateaus at speeds above 70 or 80 mph, whereas an ICE powered car is the opposite: torque grows slowly above 0 mph until the engine reaches 2000 or 2500 rpm and then increases quickly up to about 4500 to 5500 rpm. That's why Top fuel ICE dragsters do burnouts so they can heat up the rubber in the tires so they are super sticky on the pavement to reduce wheel spin while their engine is growing in torque while the driver slips the clutch. The heat generated in the slipping clutch sometime causes the clutch to explode! You might enjoy this:

https://itstillruns.com/nhra-top-fuel-engine-specifications-7419073.html

Ideally a hybrid with powerful electric motors AND a powerful ICE engine like the Porsche 918 or some of the coming hybrid super cars get a 0-100 or even 0-200 mph times that are record setting. In Nov 2019 Brittany Force made the fastest pass in Top Fuel ICE history, a national-record run of 338.17 mph in 3.659 seconds, an e.t. that carried her to the No. 1 spot and broke the track e.t. record. I think her father was John Force who was a champion dragster star. The old national speed record was 336.57 set by Tony Schumacher at Phoenix in early 2018. Formula 1 cars and the Porsche 918 have top speeds in the upper 200 mph range. The transmissions in ICE cars have a gear ratio in relationship with the front and rear axle differential ratio relative to the diameter of the wheels so that maximum torque is produced in first gear to get the car moving up to a certain speed, then 2nd gear picks up there to the next shift point based on an engine "torque curve" and so on thru the gears. Super charging and turbo charging are used for different reasons in race cars than for street machines and computer modeling technology, metallurgy changes etc have moved contemporary ICE engines to produce better fuel efficiency with better performance. If you think of an ICE engine as an air pump, the more air you can pump thru it and mix with fuel the more power it will produce. The limits are more often imposed heat and by the tensile strength of the moving components. Automatic transmissions are now so advanced that they can shift much more quickly than a human driver. The most powerful Dodge muscle cars produced today cannot be ordered with manual transmissions any more! Manual transmissions are available in the super cars like the exotics: Lamborghini, McClaren, Ferrari, Porsche etc some with stick shift but most with paddle shifters on the steering wheel. But no clutch pedal. Many drivers do love stick shifts with a clutch and manual transmission but I think manufacturers won't be making those much longer.
 
DarkRange55

DarkRange55

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Oct 15, 2023
2,421
Luxury and exotic markets aren't typically affected by broader market as much. People with money have money.

ferrari-reports-record-2008-sales-
figures-4047.html ("The Italian car manufacturer Ferrari has announced it had an excellent 2008, despite the crisis that shook the automotive world.")

Company like Ferrari is truthfully recession proof.
Auto manufacturers don't typically smoke the broader market. But Ferrari (RACE) vastly outperformed the S&P500 the last 5 years. (Tesla does - different story).

The worldwide lustre for the brand has only gotten stronger. In the last financial crisis Ferrari actually delivered MORE vehicles in 2008, and only 5% less in 2009. Compare that to nearly anything else.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/02/28/can-this-luxury-carmaker-outrun-a-us-recession/


From an investment perspective if you purchase any object, the ultimate possible profit from selling it x years later certainly does depend on a variety of factors. Had my great-uncle had known back then that the Ferrari Testa Rossa 250TR s/n 0732 he purchased in 1959 for $8,500 would have sold a few years ago for $40 million he would have kept it. But that would mean the car would have had a totally different history if he'd done that (he's a former pro formula race car driver). If he'd kept it in storage it might not have reached the auction value that it did. The provenance of a car is as important as the provenance of any object that is of interest for collectors. Obviously the true profit must include the storage costs, such as insurance and maintenance. For some objects they end up in a barn, an attic, an air conditioned private space, or in a warehouse owned by the owner of the object but partially leased for profit to another business. Who owned the object, how it was used, is it totally original, has it been retouched, restored, rebuilt from a scrap, etc. How was it regarded from day one? Why is it suddenly found to be desirable? For example, my great-uncle became interested back in the 1970s in tableware pottery designed by Clarice Cliff an English designer who worked in the shop of a mass production factory in the 1920s. The pieces she designed were simple table ware objects marketed by the pottery firm with its other designs. But since then the ones that have come to market are like some cars or artwork in terms of appreciation in value.
For Cliff fans the Newton factory landfill in England has thousands of broken pieces of reject and defective pottery which are sought after by collectors. He donated the few Cliff pieces he owned years ago. Yes, I still think that it's the brokers, the agents, the shopkeepers who can make a steady cash flow buying and selling objects that have become rare in the eyes of collectors.
 
DarkRange55

DarkRange55

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Oct 15, 2023
2,421

Forgot which casino but I was in Vegas a couple weeks ago and they had a new Bugatti Tourbillion parked in the lobby.
 

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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

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Oct 15, 2023
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Hi Kitty! 🐈‍⬛ 🤗



I've read the Tesla Model S Plaid's specs are "better" than the just announced new Ferrari "Ellectrica". Put the Plaid on the same track with the Ellectrica and I'd bet the Ferrari would have a slightly better track lap time because of its deliberate design for those customers who'd pay $850,000 for the first all electric Ferrari - the heaviest Ferrari ever made. The Plaid is more of a drag strip type, straight line acceleration type car.
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

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@Pluto




My Tesla Model S Plaid is INSANELY fast, its the fastest car I've ever driven. 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds with over 1,000HP! It leaves my Porsche GT3 RS and all my other sports cars in the dust! I mean the GT3 is 518HP & weighs 3,200lbs and sounds like a dragon 🐉 🔥 - but my Tesla would smoke it! ⚡🚗 💨
The self driving is pretty amazing but definitely has its glitches
 
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