"Lisa thinks it's a gift. That it lets you see the truth."

[jar-baby]

If you haven't heard that quote before, it's from Girl Interrupted. Lisa is a sociopath and she's presumably referring to the mental illnesses exhibited by most of the movie's characters.

The line stuck with me. It's certainly not a healthy way to think but does anyone else think that being psychologically ill gives you a more realistic view of the world since SI and happy hormones aren't skewing your perception of society and life as a whole? I don't like it but I feel like I think most logically and least emotionally when my suicidal ideation is at its most intense. And I don't mean to create any more negativity here. Just wondering if anyone relates.

 

[LittleBlackCat]

Yes I agree.. it's almost like a pair of glasses have been removed and I can see the world for what it really is. It's actually kind of scary, because even in the rare moments I feel happy these days, I still can't change my world view. It's like it cannot be unseen.

I think 'normal' people are sort of lemmings, going about their business completely unaware.

I hope others can relate and I'm not more 'unwell' than I initially thought.

 

[JosefOmbindi]

We live in a very bleak reality and a culture of optimism and resilience. At this point it's far too late to change anything and a realistic attitude is one of despair which most people try not to succumb to which is probably a good idea. There's just no good way to think about it unless you've got the money and power.

 

[venin]

If you haven't heard that quote before, it's from Girl Interrupted. Lisa is a sociopath and she's presumably referring to the mental illnesses exhibited by most of the movie's characters.

The line stuck with me. It's certainly not a healthy way to think but does anyone else think that being psychologically ill gives you a more realistic view of the world since SI and happy hormones aren't skewing your perception of society and life as a whole? I don't like it but I feel like I think most logically and least emotionally when my suicidal ideation is at its most intense. And I don't mean to create any more negativity here. Just wondering if anyone relates.

I tend to think you're right. Andrew Solomon actually said that on the record. He's a writer and psychotherapist.

He said they made a research by putting people play videogames. There were 2 groups: the "normal" people and the depressed ones. It seems when being asked how many people did they shoot or smthn like that, the depressed people were 2 times or 2.5 times more likely to guess the real number of people they shot. You should search it. Maybe it will give you some good insights.

Yes I agree.. it's almost like a pair of glasses have been removed and I can see the world for what it really is. It's actually kind of scary, because even in the rare moments I feel happy these days, I still can't change my world view. It's like it cannot be unseen.

I think 'normal' people are sort of lemmings, going about their business completely unaware.

I hope others can relate and I'm not more 'unwell' than I initially thought.

Have the glassed been removed, or were they put on?

I ask myself that all the time.

Cause emotions usually go hand in hand with cognitions and vice-versa.

I think it's both.

Although if I had to choose I'd say we're the ones who see it for what it is.

We live in a very bleak reality and a culture of optimism and resilience. At this point it's far too late to change anything and a realistic attitude is one of despair which most people try not to succumb to which is probably a good idea. There's just no good way to think about it unless you've got the money and power.

& a lot of sex

 

[jar-baby]

I tend to think you're right. Andrew Solomon actually said that on the record. He's a writer and psychotherapist.

He said they made a research by putting people play videogames. There were 2 groups: the "normal" people and the depressed one. It seems when being asked how many people did they shoot or smthn like that, the depressed people were 2 times or 2.5 times more likely to guess the real number of people they shot. You should search it. Maybe it will give you some good insights.

That was definitely an interesting read. If anyone else wants to check it out-- https://andrewsolomon.com/articles/the-pursuit-of-happiness/ . From there—

The natural state is to think you are more powerful than you are, that people like you more than they do, and that things are going to turn out better than there is any authentic reason to anticipate. If you didn't have at least a modicum of all these beliefs, you'd be unable to function in the world. Life is too hard if you see it clearly. We need our optimism. "It would seem," the social psychologist Jonathon D. Brown has written, "that much as the immune system has evolved to protect the body from outside invaders, so, too, have people's cognitive capacities developed to insulate the self from threatening experiences." The pessimist always cries out in support of her bias that she sees things more accurately, that her positions are more true and real. Being accurate is not such a great virtue. "Reality," says Susan C. Vaughan, author of Half Empty, Half Full (Harcourt), "is overrated."

I'm familiar with this idea. The issue I take with it, however, is that it posits that life is axiomatically good. We need optimism to survive because reality is too harsh. And why is living more important than knowing the truth— more important than observing reality accurately? Because it just is. Because life is sacrosanct. Because we're animals in the end. And I know at this point this just sounds like edgy teenage sentiment but idk, does that make it logically inconsistent?

Have the glassed been removed, or were they put on?

I ask myself that all the time.

So do I. Lol, I always find your posts to be super relatable. Thanks for this.

 

[venin]

That was definitely an interesting read. If anyone else wants to check it out-- https://andrewsolomon.com/articles/the-pursuit-of-happiness/ . From there—


I'm familiar with this idea. The issue I take with it, however, is that it posits that life is axiomatically good. We need optimism to survive because reality is too harsh. And why is living more important than knowing the truth— more important than observing reality accurately? Because it just is. Because life is sacrosanct. Because we're animals in the end. And I know at this point this just sounds like edgy teenage sentiment but idk, does that make it logically inconsistent?


So do I. Lol, I always find your posts to be super relatable. Thanks for this.

I relate to yours as well. I'm glad you liked it.

I think it's just the pragmatic way to go about it? Somehow I think all of us have a knowing deep down that everything is shit and that this is all there is to this bs life. So intuitively, we stick to our denial, knowing deep down that it's a lie, but choosing it instead of being aware of the futility and ephemerality of existence. We're just animals in the end, that have SI, wanna eat, sleep, avoid suffering and procreate.

Unfortunately, some of us are Trumans and get to experience the fucking edge of everything and from then on, you cannot really be the same and keep on pretending.
I sincerely envy those who don't reach the edge. Even if it's a lie, even if it's not moral (if I can put in terms of morality), they get to be happy, experience stability, "saneness", enjoy this utter non-sense called life without asking so many questions.

Sorry for all the things that landed here but I'm kinda tired and not in the best state. I hope it makes a little bit of sense.

Also, if I still wanna pursue living, how do I unsee what I "saw"? How do I ignore everthing we spoke about? Yes, if I miraculously would have tomorrow 80% of the things I wish for it would probably be possible but hence I don't think I have 20%, what does one do?

Hugs

 

[jar-baby]

I sincerely envy those who don't reach the edge. Even if it's a lie, even if it's not moral (if I can put in terms of morality), they get to be happy, experience stability, "saneness", enjoy this utter non-sense called life without asking so many questions.

I guess the moral question is what you hold to be the greatest virtue. Is it the truth? Andrew Solomon doesn't think so. Is it just... fighting to survive and be happy in spite of everything? I don't see how that's an innately good or worthy thing either.

Also, if I still wanna pursue living, how do I unsee what I "saw"? How do I ignore everthing we spoke about? Yes, if I miraculously would have tomorrow 80% of the things I wish for it would probably be possible but hence I don't think I have 20%, what does one do?

Great question. I don't know if you can unsee it. I don't know if I want to.

 

[dialogos]

I don't know if its OK to treat other people as inferior just because they aren't the same as us.
Its how racism, bullying, elitism, toxic masculinity/ feminism and other discriminations started.
In a sense people who do this are just fooling themselves to make them feel better about themselves or their situations. I'm a realist too

 

[jar-baby]

I don't know if its OK to treat other people as inferior just because they aren't the same as us.
Its how racism, bullying, elitism, toxic masculinity/ feminism and other discriminations started.
In a sense people who do this are just fooling themselves to make them feel better about themselves or their situations. I'm a realist too

Yeah, I agree that it's not okay. Everyone differs in their philosophies regarding life and in their individual psychologies. Which in turn are products of personal circumstances, biology and just general subjectivities. to be clear, I wasn't implying that realists are superior. The character from Girl, Interrupted— Lisa— might think that, while the Andrew Solomon article argues that optimism is superior. Which view is better to hold — that's a matter of opinion. I don't think that people with different opinions or worldviews are inferior to us and I definitely agree that they shouldn't be treated differently/worse.

 

[dialogos]

Yeah, I agree that it's not okay. Everyone differs in their philosophies regarding life and/or psychologies. Which in turn are products of personal circumstances, biology and just plain subjectivities. to be clear, I wasn't implying that realists are superior. The character from Girl, Interrupted— Lisa— might think that, while the Andrew Solomon article argues that optimism is superior. Which view is better to hold — that's a matter of opinion. I don't think that people with different opinions or worldviews are inferior to us.

Thank you