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Zzzzz

Zzzzz

Nothing compares to the bliss of death.
Aug 8, 2018
879
Life on Earth is a predatory natural system. Just a fact. To say life is good is to say predatory behavior is good because life would not exist without this behavior. Or are people so naive that they believe the world can exist in a fundamentally different way to which it has always existed? Virtually Everyone acknowledges that there is much evil in the world and always has been .Most people claim to despise evil with a burning passion, yet very few would rather have extinction than a world with much evil. Most People love life more than they hate evil. They have children in a world that they know is evil. I personally am 100% for preventing child birth. I think it's a grave immorality to force an innocent child kicking and screaming into this cruel, predatory world. If a chemical could be put into the water or air that would cause no harm but would make everyone barren, I'd be all for that. They could still have sex, but no pregnancy would result. The only way to truly save children is if they don't exist. If they are born , they're screwed. The only alternative would be to create a perfect human world with no injustice whatsoever. The very fact that the right to die is controversial/prohibited is proof of how morally degenerate humanity is. People say if life is too hard or painful, people can simply kill themselves. YET WE AREN'T EVEN GRANTED THAT MOST BASIC AND FUNDAMENTAL DECENCY. We can't simply kill ourselves. We have to live in fear of unwanted resuscitation, possibly resulting in excruciating pain, or being forcefully prevented from suicide. We are forced into life, and we are forced to stay alive. The bare minimum for a free and humane society is the right to be free from the cruelty of life. But life isn't about freedom or compassion, but rather slavery and servitude. Therefore it is Evil
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
43,338
Yes, existence is a horrible thing. It is completely unnecessary as we were all perfectly fine not existing until we were forced to live. There is unlimited potential for suffering in this life, there is no limit as to how bad it can get. Not existing in the first place means to never suffer. It really is cruel how society takes away the peaceful methods and expects us to suffer for decades. We deserve a right to die. Anyone who says 'life is good' is delusional.
 
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S

summers

Visionary
Nov 4, 2020
2,493
@Zzzzz I don't really care what other people do. I had a vasectomy at a very young age so I wouldn't have kids. Strictly for selfish reasons. Maybe what you say is true, but I can attest that myself and everyone I know who doesn't have kids are way happier than anyone I know with kids.

Tbh, I get a sick kind of joy when I see people have struggles because they had kids, whether financial, legal, or emotional.

I don't know if I'm quite to the level of evil, but I am truly a selfish, bad, fucked up person.
 
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Alec

Alec

Wizard
Apr 22, 2019
680
I thought the same things, well I still think the same things. But I also keep telling myself, maybe there are SOME good people, maybe there is good in the world too. Yes, currently the state in which our world is in is disgusting but maybe there are some people who see it and want to change the world and make it a good place. I hope there are. I mean there is me, and I see all the wrong things and want to change them, and there is you, so I guess that's two already. And I think there were some good people in history too, I keep telling myself that hopefully there are good people currently alive too and it's not just filled with the bad ones. I love you❤️
 
Pluto

Pluto

Cat Extremist
Dec 27, 2020
5,069
everyone I know who doesn't have kids are way happier than anyone I know with kids.
I've heard of psychological studies drawing the same conclusion, that childless people are happier. Seems that the burden and the anxiety of parenthood outweighs the positives overall. Perhaps less so for wealthy people who can outsource as needed.

Another tragedy is that people who regret having children are largely tabooed from talking openly about it, and by having to put on a mask of happiness, it pushes others to fall into the same tar pit. Despite the solid intellectual arguments, I sometimes feel a strong emotional desire for fatherhood, just to experience such a close, loving emotional bond with another being. But CTB is the more ethical way to handle that pain, and it's all but impossible to find a partner with my PTSD issues anyway.

About the predatory thing: people seem to always be competing for resources, and often they sink lower and lower the more desperate they get. This is where some people turn to crime or at the very least throw compassion out the window. The ongoing illegal logging and bribery of officials that is decimating the Amazon rainforest is a typical manifestation of this. But the same is true even for the average family guy who doesn't give a shit about the homelessness, animal cruelty or ecological devastation happening in his own country.

I wish I could make the world a better place, but it instead feels like removing myself is at least a small way of doing that. Fewer people = less competition = less desperation = less horror.
 
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Lost Magic

Lost Magic

Illuminated
May 5, 2020
3,203
yep, life sure ain't no picnic.
 
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Zzzzz

Zzzzz

Nothing compares to the bliss of death.
Aug 8, 2018
879
@Zzzzz I don't really care what other people do. I had a vasectomy at a very young age so I wouldn't have kids. Strictly for selfish reasons. Maybe what you say is true, but I can attest that myself and everyone I know who doesn't have kids are way happier than anyone I know with kids.

Tbh, I get a sick kind of joy when I see people have struggles because they had kids, whether financial, legal, or emotional.

I don't know if I'm quite to the level of evil, but I am truly a selfish, bad, fucked up person.


Well, even if you got a vasectomy for selfish reasons, you still are not contributing to the suffering of humanity via childbirth. I'd call that a win Imo. It's also true for people I know IRL with kids. Almost all of them have had very difficult lives and are not very happy.
 
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TheHatedOne

TheHatedOne

Death is salvation
Sep 26, 2021
2,028
Very insightful and rational post I love it.

People who have children don't really care about evil or suffering. When you ask people why they have children you'll mostly encounter these reasons: ''I wanted to have meaning'', ''I wanted a mini me'', ''I want to carry on my genes and lineage'', ''I want my children to cure cancer'', ''I want to live through my children''. Notice all the ''I'', ''me'' and ''my''. No concern for the persons brought into this world. It's all about selfishness. The only thing they care about is their selfishness which unfortunately is wired into us for survival. This intensified by brainwashing brought by society (which needs its wage slaves for economy) and religion. The only reason we can't have access to a quick and painless death whenever we want is because we are all slaves to the system, we are property of the government. We aren't people with feelings, needs and wants, we are mere resources. We are used to make rich people richer and go to pointless wars to become food for flies. It's all ''my body, my choice'' until euthanasia is brought up. Hell, in some parts of the world people fight and advocate for anti abortion laws. In other parts it's already reality. If humanity still has problems with abortion how can we expect a law for euthanasia to be legal? I think that these species should be nuked already.
 
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existtosuffer

existtosuffer

Student
Sep 22, 2021
150
I saw this from another post related to suicide & capitalism, but it explains everything with how I feel about reality.
"Living happily" itself is a myth. Nobody on this floating rock is consistently "happy" every single day unless there is something seriously neurologically wrong with them that makes them that way. Life itself is inherently suffering - this isn't some edgy edict, it's the fundamental nature of the human condition; we are animals, and moreso social animals, which, not unlike elephants, zebras, dolphins, cows, or donkeys, are biologically wired and adapted to chasing short-term fulfillment, and avoiding pain and suffering - to the degree we experience and remember negative feelings and experiences far, far deeper and longer than we do positive experiences. This is the telltale sign of our inescapable animal nature - the hardwiring that makes suffering so inherently unavoidable, and pleasure seemingly so elusive.

Boiling the phenomena of NEETdom down to "mental health" is a reductionistic fairy tale that completely ignores the context of modern life in favor of hyperindividualizing the consequences of that context down to the individual and leaving it there. Speaking of context - the factors you mention are not as much of an immunological force as you imagine. Our society is one rife with celebrity suicides, who so many see as the "winners" of our silly game - they have money, prestige, recognition, fulfillment, endless fancy toys and achievements - and yet still cannot escape the call to the void - which, if anything, speaks to the fact we spend our lives chasing things that really do not make our lives all that worthwhile in the end. Sure, it's nice to be clock in to your 9-5 every day and pat yourself on the back and tell yourself you're doing the right thing like everyone else, but this is the life of an obedient somnambulant - one we are conditioned for in this society. You know the script - go to school, work until you're old, save and scrimp the whole way through, retire, and go rot in an old folks home using the money you've hoarded your whole life. This might be a fulfilling life for an inanimate machine part that cannot feel and is not alive, but for a social animal that needs environmental enrichment and belonging and meaning to feel any kind of consistent fulfilment, it is a slow death.

This isn't to say NEETdom is some grand alternative - it is the final consequence of this meaningless life program - narcissized depression and almost total alienation, whereby one practically declares themselves dead to the outside world and escapes deeper and deeper inside themselves as a solace, until the crushing emptiness of isolation and loneliness destroys their ability to experience pleasure and often their will to live. This is typically because of the self-isolating shame that attaches itself to the status. As social animals, we need people in our lives to feel any degree of worthwhile. Interpersonal interaction injects our lives with a kind of meaning and fulfilment that all the technology, distractions and drugs cannot. Unemployment and NEETdom would not nearly be as bad if not for the immense social stigma, and if we could all expect to live in communities we felt a part of, or at the very least had friends who cared about us outside of our job title. Unfortunately, this is not the nature of our hyperindividualized, materialistic, and vain society whereby one increasingly derives their (narcissized) sense of self-worth and status from their ability to consume and brag about said consumption. Instead, we live in a time where over half of the population reports always feeling lonely and having few if any friends, 1/6 of us are on psychotropic drugs, and the suicide rate hasn't been this high in 30 years.

All the same - this doesn't make "successful" people failures. But it also doesn't make NEETs "failures", at least in any individual sense. The failure is society itself - in providing an insane sociocultural script that makes people incredibly sick; if I could call NEETdom anything, anything at all, I'd call it the canary in the coal mine for a society that is providing an age old lifescript that is no longer worthwhile, rewarding, or even meaningful in any sense - nor does it even guarantee the barest physical necessities for participation anymore; recall that wages have been stagnant for 40 years and we have wealth inequality levels that mimic those found prior to the Great Depression, what becomes all the more clear is that modern life is the new Great Depression. This is a dreadfully sick post-meaning society where mass shootings, panoptic surveillance, suicide, opiate abuse, loneliness, and alienation have become as commonplace as psychotropic drugs and psych diagnoses; which, if anything, says nothing more than that the very concept of "mental illness" is a desperate attempt by the system to hold on to it's collapsing validity by pointing at dissidents and shouting "they have some inherent biological illness that makes them this way!" As such, the realm of modern day psychology/psychiatry has become no more than another long arm of the corporatocratic, neoliberal police state, which has a part in allowing modern-day quality of life to continue it's decades long slow bleed to the sociopathic class - the wealthy and powerful.

We must think of NEETdom, depression, and a wide scope of psychological maladies as meaningful signals our bodies are sending us about the ways we conduct our lives nowadays, not as noise that is to be ignored and medicated away." -Stranger from the internet
 
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Zzzzz

Zzzzz

Nothing compares to the bliss of death.
Aug 8, 2018
879
I saw this from another post related to suicide & capitalism, but it explains everything with how I feel about reality.
Wow that's a fantastic quote.
 
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Y

YourNeighbor

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2021
423
Nonsense. Just because life/the world has been bad to one/many of us here, does not mean it is bad overall. Might as well take a poll of Beverly Hills homeowners to see if life is luxurious.
 
Zzzzz

Zzzzz

Nothing compares to the bliss of death.
Aug 8, 2018
879
Nonsense. Just because life/the world has been bad to one/many of us here, does not mean it is bad overall. Might as well take a poll of Beverly Hills homeowners to see if life is luxurious.

It's a fundamentally predatory natural system. All life on earth would cease to exist if predatory behavior stopped.
 
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Superdeterminist

Superdeterminist

Enlightened
Apr 5, 2020
1,875
Could not agree more. Except for the part about sterilising everyone, I wouldn't want to do that personally, but I can still kind of sympathise.
 
Y

YourNeighbor

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2021
423
It's a fundamentally predatory natural system. All life on earth would cease to exist if predatory behavior stopped.
Again, nonsense. Photosynthesis and chemosynthesis exist. And it is absurd to equate predation with evil, OP's premise. Pretty much every being on this planet aside from humans is incapable of being evil. And even there, the vast majority of people are not evil the vast majority of the time.

You're not getting an objective picture on this thread because of the nature of this site-it presents one extreme of the spectrum. It is not representative of the whole.
 
Zzzzz

Zzzzz

Nothing compares to the bliss of death.
Aug 8, 2018
879
Again, nonsense. Photosynthesis and chemosynthesis exist. And it is absurd to equate predation with evil, OP's premise. Pretty much every being on this planet aside from humans is incapable of being evil. And even there, the vast majority of people are not evil the vast majority of the time.

You're not getting an objective picture on this thread because of the nature of this site-it presents one extreme of the spectrum. It is not representative of the whole.

Life is very interconnected. Many plants and trees would die off without certain animals to help them propogate. Most if not all the animals would be dead. Humanity would have never existed. Life on the planet would be fundamentally different and greatly reduced, possibly all extinct. It's true there might be some life left, but probably not a lot. Just because plants and photosynthesis exists doesn't change the fact that predatory behavior is fundamental to the circle of life on Earth. You speak as if the people on this forum are the only ones suffering. A small minority. quite the contrary is true. The entirety of human history is riddled with war, murder,rape,disease, starvation, and all manner of suffering. It is certainly not a tiny radical fringe group that is suffering. All evidence tells us that evolution is geared towards survival of the fittest. If you believe that natural eugenics, which is what evolution is, is not wrong than we simply disagree about what is right and wrong. The disagreement about the word evil is somewhat semantics but I'm more than happy to grant you that and exchange the word evil for Wrong if you wish. It is wrong that the baby zebra screams while it's eaten alive and it's mother helplessly watches. It is wrong that the child is kidnapped and raped. Likewise,it is wrong that a CEO has billions of dollars while his employees make close to minimum wage. If you are arguing that predatory behavior is not crucial to the circle of life,or that its not wrong or evil, You may present your evidence for that case. Until then I say predatory behavior is wrong and therefore life is Wrong in a very fundamental way.
 
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deflationary

deflationary

Fussy exister. Living in the epilogue
Mar 11, 2020
529
Nonsense. Just because life/the world has been bad to one/many of us here, does not mean it is bad overall. Might as well take a poll of Beverly Hills homeowners to see if life is luxurious.
A rape or an assault wouldn't ever become a good thing even if there's a billon rapists or assaulters enjoying themselves at the expense of one victim. No amount of winners would change the fundamentally evil nature of the whole enterprise. Same with life as a whole, except in life the ratio of winners vs losers is clearly not even close to a billion to one.
 
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meetapple

meetapple

Mage
Jun 3, 2021
585
@Zzzzz I don't really care what other people do. I had a vasectomy at a very young age so I wouldn't have kids. Strictly for selfish reasons. Maybe what you say is true, but I can attest that myself and everyone I know who doesn't have kids are way happier than anyone I know with kids.

Tbh, I get a sick kind of joy when I see people have struggles because they had kids, whether financial, legal, or emotional.

I don't know if I'm quite to the level of evil, but I am truly a selfish, bad, fucked up person.
Nah.
 
J

Journeytoletgo

Broken and hated 7-14 years long overdue
May 14, 2018
1,608
This world is hell
 
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fox_wannabe

fox_wannabe

Enlightened
Jul 7, 2021
1,112
Life is not bad, consciousness bound to body is evil. I would be okay with everything while being a ghost floating in space and seeing the world if I knew there is no awareness that suffers in it. If we were all machines, if animals were machines, with no feeling of pain or suffering, It would all be ok. This is my opinion.
 
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motel rooms

motel rooms

Survivor of incest. Gay. Please don't PM me.
Apr 13, 2021
7,081
If we were all machines, if animals were machines, with no feeling of pain or suffering, It would all be ok. This is my opinion.

What's the difference between being a machine that doesn't feel anything & being dead?
 
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fox_wannabe

fox_wannabe

Enlightened
Jul 7, 2021
1,112
What's the difference between being a machine that doesn't feel anything & being dead?
In one case you are not the machine and you have never been one, you never experienced life or suffering. In other case you went through life and you had died or chosen death.
 
G

Gsvko

Mea culpa.
Dec 14, 2021
189
Everything on this rock just wants to survive and reproduce. It's neither evil nor good, just the way it is, blame the big bang
 
motel rooms

motel rooms

Survivor of incest. Gay. Please don't PM me.
Apr 13, 2021
7,081
If we were all machines, if animals were machines, with no feeling of pain or suffering, It would all be ok. This is my opinion.
Why be a machine that doesn't feel anything when you can be dead? If we were all dead, it would all be OK. That is my opinion. :))
 
fox_wannabe

fox_wannabe

Enlightened
Jul 7, 2021
1,112
Why be a machine that doesn't feel anything when you can be dead? If we were all dead, it would all be OK. That is my opinion. :))
You don't understand, there is a difference between living and dying and never existing.
 
motel rooms

motel rooms

Survivor of incest. Gay. Please don't PM me.
Apr 13, 2021
7,081
You don't understand, there is a difference between living and dying and never existing.

I understand, I'm just not interested in machines or anything else that's incapable of being aware it exists. I might be wrong, but I don't think many members of this forum are machines that don't have to die. :))
 
F

Forever Dead

Student
Mar 5, 2022
106
Life on Earth is a predatory natural system. Just a fact. To say life is good is to say predatory behavior is good because life would not exist without this behavior. Or are people so naive that they believe the world can exist in a fundamentally different way to which it has always existed? Virtually Everyone acknowledges that there is much evil in the world and always has been .Most people claim to despise evil with a burning passion, yet very few would rather have extinction than a world with much evil. Most People love life more than they hate evil. They have children in a world that they know is evil. I personally am 100% for preventing child birth. I think it's a grave immorality to force an innocent child kicking and screaming into this cruel, predatory world. If a chemical could be put into the water or air that would cause no harm but would make everyone barren, I'd be all for that. They could still have sex, but no pregnancy would result. The only way to truly save children is if they don't exist. If they are born , they're screwed. The only alternative would be to create a perfect human world with no injustice whatsoever. The very fact that the right to die is controversial/prohibited is proof of how morally degenerate humanity is. People say if life is too hard or painful, people can simply kill themselves. YET WE AREN'T EVEN GRANTED THAT MOST BASIC AND FUNDAMENTAL DECENCY. We can't simply kill ourselves. We have to live in fear of unwanted resuscitation, possibly resulting in excruciating pain, or being forcefully prevented from suicide. We are forced into life, and we are forced to stay alive. The bare minimum for a free and humane society is the right to be free from the cruelty of life. But life isn't about freedom or compassion, but rather slavery and servitude. Therefore it is Evil
I agree with everything you say, its like you are in my head. I began this unwanted life hating everything from around the age of 5 years old due to certain things that I witnessed. My mother used to work in a butchers shop and I always remember the time she took delivery of some butchered cows and pigs. The very sight of them disturbed me greatly and I couldn't understand why people thought killing animals and eating them was a good thing. I also remember my Dad beating my lovely pet dog because she peed on the kitchen floor, the bastard broke one of her legs. Animal cruelty is very common in this dreadful world and it makes my blood boil. And then there is the time when I was bullied at school, bullying is another form of predatory behaviour. And then You experience predatory behaviours at work where people stab you in the back just so they can climb further up the career ladder. And also the company you work for is feeding off your time and energy while giving very little back. The world of nature is very cruel, something always has to die in order for something else to survive, everything is parasitical in nature. Religion is also parasitical because it feeds off peoples fears of hell etc, and the Government bleeds you dry and leaves you with just enough to survive on. The world of advertising feeds off your insecurities and desires, its a never ending cycle of take, take take. Its as though this thing we call life just wants to suck the joy out of everything. I am not a big fan of religion but I think the buddhists nailed it on the head when they say that life is unsatisfactory and full of suffering, and all we have to look forward to are old age, sickness and death. They also dont believe in breeding because to bring a child into this world is to perpetuate the worlds suffering, Not having children is one of the best life decisions I have ever made. I would never inflict this shithole world on an innocent child that would probably never want to be here anyway.
 
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Superdeterminist

Superdeterminist

Enlightened
Apr 5, 2020
1,875
Life is not bad, consciousness bound to body is evil. I would be okay with everything while being a ghost floating in space and seeing the world if I knew there is no awareness that suffers in it. If we were all machines, if animals were machines, with no feeling of pain or suffering, It would all be ok. This is my opinion.
Absolutely. It's only because suffering is possible, that life is bad. I think it's very difficult to reasonably argue against this. When people do (and they sometimes do), I'm always baffled.
 
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fox_wannabe

fox_wannabe

Enlightened
Jul 7, 2021
1,112
I might be wrong, but I don't think many members of this forum are machines that don't have to die. :))
I am just making point that has nothing to do with specifically people on this forum. Just philosophical statement. No need for passive agressive :))
 
whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,913
How did you forget parasites? 40% of ALL animals are parasites... It is a predatory AND parasitic system...

 

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