Discussion Legal Suicide will save lives...

[JohnDoe1]

Charles Cullen, nurse turned serial killer, who killed 400 people with overdoses of the drug Digoxin. Actually, tried to kill himself seven times many years back...If society has just let him die, all those people wouldn't have to die...

Similarly, I read many reports of suicides, where the person attempting suicide, take lives of other as collateral damage. This has happened many times in cases of car crashes and Carbon Monoxide Poisoning.

Legalizing suicide and easy access to barbiturates, would actually save lives...

What do you guys think?

 

[Firecaste]

Also lots of suicidals who fail and never try again, I don't know if we can get accurate stats on this, of course I would like it to be more convenient.

 

[21Neberg]

Legalizing suicide might also help break the horrible taboo that rests on suicide. I don't know, shooting an idea here.

 

[WayOut]

Suicide is actually not illegal. However, the op includes easy access to barbiturates, which is a good point.

Making a peaceful and accessible means of suicide more available will very likely save lives. I don't mean in the way of mass murders by suicidal people, which may be true in some cases. Rather, I mean in the sense that having a peaceful option available is known to actually help suicidal people continue living in many cases. Having the escape route sorted, some suicidal people feel less desperate, and are more likely to try to sort out any issues that there may be solutions to.

This doesn't mean that other people would not use the peaceful method immediately, but these people are going to end their lives one way or another, so why not give them a peaceful means? I mean, fuck, they've endured so much, why not let them have a peaceful end?

I never stop being astonished at anti choice pro-lifers who think that taking away a peaceful method means that people won't kill themselves. It often has the opposite result.

Having good choices available gives people the headspace to make good decisions. It is also an indication that society respects someone's choice - again, another positive that could prolong lives. If there was good legislation in place to protect a person's choice and dignity, I believe we would see fewer suicides from people who feel trapped and desperate. Some suicidal people would still chose to end their lives, others may decide to hold off for a bit and see how things go.

So, I completely agree with the OP's comment that "Legalizing suicide and easy access to barbiturates, would actually save lives", but for different reasons. It's time society woke up and stopped treating suicide as off limits, and started looking at it rationally and treating people with more respect.

 

[Smilla]

I wish murderers would never be lumped together with suicides, which is exactly what you are doing, let's be clear here: NONE of those cases you mentioned required the mass murder of other people to ctb and imo those who murder had murderous impulses before their suicidal ideation.

The GermanWings guy certainly had the capability to rent a private plane, and fly it solo into a mountain. He also could have rigged up an exit bag set up or simply hung himself...

And the nurse had access to drugs to kill others which he could have used himself.

Sorry, but I think trying to come at pro-lifers with the "suicide saves lives" idea is utter bs nonsense and actually poisons the real argument.

 

[TAW122]

The idea as a whole is good. I agree with many others about the fact it will make many (potentially) suicidal people survive longer, or even on the path of a long way to recovery, knowing that they always have the option of opting out if they really choose it. Furthermore, it would cull the stigma and also more people would be willing to open up about their suicidal ideation if the threat of incarceration, punishment, and other consequences (medical bills, mark on record, loss of job and social life) aren't present.

As far as collateral damage, yes I believe that is it unfortunate and in no way am I condoning it, but I believe there is a deeper problem and it's societal values, norms, and attitudes towards suicide itself. This video partially explains one aspect of why society is shitty itself. If society and it's people really want to see change in the long term and actually really "fix" things, then it has to examine it's flaws, change it's attitude and approach towards suicidal people, and at some point, they can no longer suppress the truth or continue to wallow in delusions and ignorance (in other words, pretending that suicide prevention is the answer and the current way we treat suicidal people is effective.).

I wish murderers would never be lumped together with suicides, which is exactly what you are doing, let's be clear here: NONE of those cases you mentioned required the mass murder of other people to ctb and imo those who murder had murderous impulses before their suicidal ideation.

The GermanWings guy certainly had the capability to rent a private plane, and fly it solo into a mountain. He also could have rigged up an exit bag set up or simply hung himself...

And the nurse had access to drugs to kill others which he could have used himself.

I agree that murderers ≠ suicidal people and there is a big distinction between the two. Yes, I believe the GermanWings guy should not have taken an entire plane full of passengers into the mountain. The same thing with the nurse, he should just quietly taken the drugs he needed to free himself from this existence which would not only save taxpayers' a lot of money but this also means he would not be rotting in prison for life (don't get me wrong, he absolutely deserved life in prison for his crimes of killing many patients, especially those without their consent).

Tbh, if I was a nurse, I'd probably won't need to rely on firearms as my method of ctb'ing as I would have my method accessible almost all the time.

 

[Smilla]

The idea as a whole is good. I agree with many others about the fact it will make many (potentially) suicidal people survive longer, or even on the path of a long way to recovery, knowing that they always have the option of opting out if they really choose it. Furthermore, it would cull the stigma and also more people would be willing to open up about their suicidal ideation if the threat of incarceration, punishment, and other consequences (medical bills, mark on record, loss of job and social life) aren't present.

As far as collateral damage, yes I believe that is it unfortunate and in no way am I condoning it, but I believe there is a deeper problem and it's societal values, norms, and attitudes towards suicide itself. This video partially explains one aspect of why society is shitty itself. If society and it's people really want to see change in the long term and actually really "fix" things, then it has to examine it's flaws, change it's attitude and approach towards suicidal people, and at some point, they can no longer suppress the truth or continue to wallow in delusions and ignorance (in other words, pretending that suicide prevention is the answer and the current way we treat suicidal people is effective.).



I agree that murderers ≠ suicidal people and there is a big distinction between the two. Yes, I believe the GermanWings guy should not have taken an entire plane full of passengers into the mountain. The same thing with the nurse, he should just quietly taken the drugs he needed to free himself from this existence which would not only save taxpayers' a lot of money but this also means he would not be rotting in prison for life (don't get me wrong, he absolutely deserved life in prison for his crimes of killing many patients, especially those without their consent).

Tbh, if I was a nurse, I'd probably won't need to rely on firearms as my method of ctb'ing as I would have my method accessible almost all the time.

I like seraphobe a lot. I'd also add that we have an optimism bias because of deeply ingrained evolutionary strivings thanks to the almighty dna molecule. Society is one large dna molecule fighting for itself, there's really nothing rational about it.

 

[Pointless]

Suicidal people aren't crazy mass murders, i think we should all agree on that and keep this idea away from this forum.

 

[Smilla]

Suicidal people aren't crazy mass murders, i think we should all agree on that and keep this idea away from this forum.

Right.

 

[deathbycakes]

don't agree on the easy access for barbiturates, if everyone could get them, that means the bad guys could get them easily too.

 

[crova]

Legalizing suicide might also help break the horrible taboo that rests on suicide. I don't know, shooting an idea here.

Is it not already available in Netherlands, once you qualified for it. They just use different vocabulary for it.

 

[NoChoice]

With the inception of capitalism and federal currency came the realization that populations could be "farmed" or harvested like a crop, the crop being human lives with the function to be wage slaves who do tasks being underpayed to earn this currency as they have no choice, all while paying taxes and throwing the money right back into the economy that only benefits the elite with very few exceptions. I was upper middle class growing up, I'm not biased towards capitalism and honestly I probably benefited from it for most of my life, but it's terrible and I hate it. It's okay on paper but like religion and government its been corrupted by greedy and evil people.

All of this to say, our governments don't want us to kill ourselves because we are their greatest resource and a lot of value is lost when a wage slave dies. If our governments wanted to kill or imprison us they would've and could've done it a long time ago, but instead there is a sophisticated form of slavery with invisible chains, one of the only escapes for many happens to be ctb, so they will never allow it and they have made laws, social standards and religious doctrine to enforce the idea that it is wrong and has no place in modern society. I feel for people who are stuck in clearly miserable conditions like vegetative states, neurodegenerative diseases and so on, this further proves the idea that the state views you as their property, just as you are not allowed to put whatever substances you want into your own body even in privacy, they own us or at least try their hardest to and for me they've done a pretty fucking good job I hate to admit.

The story of Adam Maier-Clayton is a great example of why euthanasia should be accessible in any modern civil society, as he went through excrutiating pain constantly due to a rare psychosomatic pain condition, and was obviously not allowed a medically assisted death even though he had great justification, begged, tried to campaign, push petitions and urge politicians to support this movement to no avail, he eventually had to commit suicide all alone with no family by his side. RIP

tl;dr- governments will not allow their wage slaves to escape so easily.

 

[21Neberg]

Is it not already available in Netherlands, once you qualified for it. They just use different vocabulary for it.

It is, but only for the clinically ill.

 

[TAW122]

It has been over 6 hours since my post on this topic and I can't edit it (also the site being down most of the time over the last few days), so I just want to clarify and explain what I'm referring to. First off, when circumstances cause someone to do what they do, then I look at the bigger picture, which is that society and the system create circumstances in which these things happen. I believe in fixing what is wrong in society rather than only blaming the person for what he/she did (which is what most people do while they fail to address the root cause).

For example, in Japan when suicide rates are among one of the highest in the world, eventually, Japanese society and the government realized one of the root causes for why a lot of people commit suicide was overwork and no rest. Therefore, they (the government) passed a law to regulate and restrict how many hours a employer may require from their employees. Then they start to enforce them and this has reduced suicide rates for that country. This is just one of the examples of society and people getting together to fix underlying problems rather than just treat the symptoms and results. The bottom line is if people only treated the symptoms of a problem, rather than addressing the root cause or problem itself, then nothing really gets fixed in the long run.

Keep in mind that I am not in any way condoning or excusing the actions of a perpetrator or negative and harmful actions directed at others (especially those that aren't directly involved in said person's life). With that said, yes I still believe there should still be consequences for said person who breaks the law, but it shouldn't mean that we ignore or neglect circumstances and society's flaws while only focusing on the person who did the bad deed.

 

[Zzzzz]

Technically some lives will be saved as a result of legalizing suicide. But in the bigger picture, I'm convinced a lot more people would end their lives if they had easy access to painless methods, and there is nothing wrong with that, if that's what they choose to do. Currently, about 1 million people end their lives in the World every year. If legalized everywhere, I think the number would be Millions more, maybe even ten's of millions.

 

[3cookies]

I am all for legalization suicide and ending to social stigma. I believe religion plays a big part in the stigma and taboo nature of the subject. Now even if you want help - in my experience in the US- you are treated poorly and like a diseased animal. I do think that there should be some sort of process to direct those who can be helped and go on to recovery then after going through that a person can choose to ctb.

 

[sleepless]

I absolutely believe legal suicide WILL save lives. Just imagine the number of people waiting for all sorts of organ donors. If it is legalized, a single person may provide enough organs to save multiple lives. If and when a successful suicide commiter's body is found, it will most likely be useless for organ transplants.

Legalizing suicide will not only fulfill an individual's wish for salvation, it may also give life or lives to others. And according to suicide statistics, I also believe suicide commiters contribute to solving over population voluntarily. They should be given a peaceful way to go without having to worry about the complicated and painful procedures involved.

 

[ArtsyDrawer]

It's a tricky subject, I feel.
On paper? Yeah, definitely, bring it on!
And then we have the sketchy types... Waiting for grandma to die to get your portion of her will? Sign her up for Legal Suicide INC.
Got some sort of enemy you want to get rid of? Legal Suicide INC!
College prank? Sign your bff for Legal Suicide INC!

I mean, sure, it'd ease MANY lives. MANY people lived to see themselves reach extraordinary ages if only because they had a way out in an arm's reach. The issue is corruption. Humans will be humans, and humans tend to get corrupted really easily. While it'll make many things easier, it'd also fuck many lives up in the process. I'm all for it, but it'll have to go through a very tedious beta testing stage to make sure it's really difficult to fuck somebody's daddy with it.

edit: the third word from the end was supposed to be a word meaning "1/7th of a week". For some fucking reason I can't type it out. Gave up. lol

 

[JustAboutDone]

I'm not sure how there can be any different way of doing it - other than the Swiss model. Yes, it takes considerable time and financial resources for one to be deemed "fit for dignitas" but I am concerned that without a large number of safeguards in place that people will be pushed towards an 'early end' by a government (speaking about the Uk here) that is already not particularly sympathetic towards the elderly, disabled or out of work.

Also suicide isn't 'illegal' in many places.

Maybe we could just go back to being prescribed barbiturates instead of useless zopiclone.

 

[Misanthrope]

This is too dependent on making psychic predictions. You cannot know one way or the other. It is not a good platform of logic for pushing for the right to die. You could use a similar pointless counter argument as well. That there have been suicidal people that have gone on to bring great value to society and saved lives. What if they had died and never done that? I don't see how that is relevant to anything in both cases. It should be about dignity and autonomy to make a rational decision over your own body. With enough help to ensure as peaceful as possible end.

I am all for controlled regulations over dangerous substances. I am not going to split hairs over what they are used for. Because they are dangerous substances…

I think a controlled environment for people to voluntary die at is worth pursuing though. But my final view on it would be dependent on the legislation, criteria and stated safeguards.