Aponia & Ataraxia
Experienced
- Jun 24, 2018
- 233
Anyone else orchestrating their escape from this lower plane simply because 23rd century > 21st century? (technologically, morally/ethically, socioculturally)
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I wish I'd been born a few hundred years in the future. A mostly automated society so people could do what they enjoyed, instead of having to work just to support their existence.
Aponia & Ataraxia
Experienced
- Jun 24, 2018
- 233
That's exactly my view. It's virtually identical to what Aubrey de Grey has to say about aging: "...Why is this not just common fucking sense to everybody, you know? I mean it certainly was common sense to me when I was a kid; I cannot remember a time when I did not know what I've told you so far"
--Likewise: It certainly was common sense to me when I was a kid, and I cannot remember a time when I did not know that this place [early-21st century] is very sub-par (technologically, morally/ethically, & socioculturally). The most thrilling, euphoric, harmonious, and even humorous experiences that I've had during this Homo sapiens experience have mostly occurred within lucid/vivid dreams (when I was sleeping), or during my solo day-trips in the desert.
"I'm going to start with an outrageous claim, except that I'm going to try and persuade you that it's actually pretty damned obvious: my claim is that aging is humanity's biggest problem by a long distance, --how do I come up with that conclusion? Well, simply because it causes the most suffering" --Aubrey de Grey
It' all status quo bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_machine#Counterarguments
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I love Aubrey de Grey. I've been trying to follow along with some of the research he's doing with SENS, but it's unlikely that anything will really progress within our lifetimes, despite his claims. Personally, it wouldn't change how I feel about ending things, because even with longevity and automation and an advanced society, my problems are all mental.
I don't have an autobiographical memory (look up severely deficient autobiographical memory) )which basically means I can't relive my past experiences which leads to me feeling completely detached from my life.
Aponia & Ataraxia
Experienced
- Jun 24, 2018
- 233
I just want to say first of all that really strikes a chord with me. As I said in my post my best memories are mostly from dreams. I'm tearing up reading this, my friend. I'll be back here later to say some more
It's really strange, because I can *remember* my past experiences, I just can't *relive* them if that makes any sense. So I can remember facts/ objective things about my past experiences but I can't relive any of the subjective emotions/ how I felt. When I try to remember past experiences, this objective nature means I may as well just be reading about it in a book - it doesn't feel like it was *me* experiencing it, even though logically I know it was.
I've also got aphantasia and alexithymia which mean I can't visualise anything in my mind (- I literally didn't even know that it was possible until a few months ago) and have trouble understanding what emotions I'm feeling unless they're really powerful/ obvious.
Lucas
Member
- May 26, 2018
- 81
Living in future would be cool, but our current problems would be replaced with new ones.
If robots would do people's jobs, unemployment would be much higher. Yeah, one person would be needed to fix the robots every now and then, but it still would reduce the jobs on hand. Of course there still would be things that only humans could do, but at that point it probably would need some education and depending of the future everybody still might not have to access to it or intrest, some human types simply ain't meant for it.
And forget about the internet as we know it now, it probably would be really stricted.
Biggest problem the future will be facing is overpopulation and if they ever find a way to stop aging, that will really be the end of everything because it would cause so many problems and ultimately they would start executing people for different reasons, unless of course humans reach another planets and resources.
If robots would do people's jobs, unemployment would be much higher. Yeah, one person would be needed to fix the robots every now and then, but it still would reduce the jobs on hand. Of course there still would be things that only humans could do, but at that point it probably would need some education and depending of the future everybody still might not have to access to it or intrest, some human types simply ain't meant for it.
And forget about the internet as we know it now, it probably would be really stricted.
Biggest problem the future will be facing is overpopulation and if they ever find a way to stop aging, that will really be the end of everything because it would cause so many problems and ultimately they would start executing people for different reasons, unless of course humans reach another planets and resources.
Aponia & Ataraxia
Experienced
- Jun 24, 2018
- 233
Yea even though I don't reasonably expect to benefit from the anti-aging therapies myself, I still have immense respect for Aubrey. It makes me not feel so alone knowing there's other beings on this planet who are working toward a transhumanist/post-human world (even if humans never quite make it, there will in fact be a true "best time to be alive" like everyone in every era has claimed). All my best friends and meaningful relationships exist in the 23rd century or even simply don't exist at all.
I myself have sort of lived with some degree of depersonalization/dissociation. My ability to have vivid dreams and daydreams is the only thing that has "blessed" me with an inner positivity in some way. Your story brings tears to my eyes though. It's simply tragic what we are put through, and what it means to be human even in this era. I actually am looking forward to my escape because it always seemed so simple to me since childhood that there's no point to this existence unless it is filled with leisure, creativity, positive emotions, thrill, ataraxia, aponia, --to name a few. I plan on making my death as decadent as possible. It's a solitary endeavor.
I actually find philosophical presentism (philosophy of time) to be a good barrier against negative emotion for me because of negative past experiences. I'm very sorry about your condition, my friend. One of my favorite quotes has to do with time and memories, but after hearing your story it makes me view it from a very different perspective: "Is the flow of time something real, or might our sense of time passing be just an illusion that hides the fact that what is real is only a vast collection of memories?"
If I were in a position to do so I would have gone into the sciences myself, but this current era is still too primitive and forbids me on financial and academic grounds. I didn't get good enough grades in school even though I grasp the material, etc. Your story breaks my heart and I hope you find at least some moments of peace, happiness, bliss, aponia, and ataraxia whether you choose to stay or go. With love, my friend
Aponia & Ataraxia
Experienced
- Jun 24, 2018
- 233
Come to think of it, after my attempt (which I aborted because I didn't feel safe without having my secondary method) it's like my brain has lost interest in making new memories or remembering old ones. It's as if the expectation of being gone has played some part in that.
P.S. it's been a while since I've shed some tears, so I sincerely thank you for helping me out with that, really haha xp
Aponia & Ataraxia
Experienced
- Jun 24, 2018
- 233
I get your point with complexity rising there will be new problems created, albeit I think things will still generally be better in the future. Simply due to the fact that human civilization exists, there is a logical necessity to exist within it a height or peak. This is an a priori conjecture, and it's doubtful that the early-21st century is the real "best time to be alive." So regardless of whether or not that idyllic, cyberpunk, reverse aging, space-faring, powerful augmented & virtual reality future ever arrives, it is likely that the "place to be" is somewhere in the future (which could reach a plateau over several decades; when this peak will actually occur is virtually anyone's guess). Ultimately, I'm very glad for those beings who end up living at the peak, --I personally wouldn't think that there's really any other time/era even worth living in (from an outside perspective looking at the full timeline of human civilization, from beginning to end)
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The transition period will be very difficult. But once automation is widespread the cost of production will fall dramatically as labour costs are the biggest costs in producing anything. There will have to be some sort of move to a universal basic income, which because of lower costs from automation, won't be unsustainable as it would be now. Jobs won't be needed for people to survive. Instead people will be able to do what interests them whether that be the arts or science or humanities.
I think overpopulation isn't such a big problem either. There's been lots of research showing that as a country's wealth (GDP) increases, birth rates decline (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility#/media/File:TFR_vs_PPP_2015.png).
I work in physics myself, but wish I'd discovered Aubrey's works before I'd gone to university so I could have gone into biochem instead. Unfortunately the cost of going back and retraining is astronomical, another reason why I wish I was boorn in the future where automation would reduce the costs of everything!
I'm not sure whether I have depersonalisation/ dissociation, because my thoughts and feelings *right now* do appear as my own. It's only my past which seems sort of dissociated from me - I know that my past experiences happened to me rationally, it's just the subjective element of them that eludes me. My aphantasia also means I can't dream - I literally don't have a "mind's eye" (or nose, or ears or tongue) .
I don't actually know anything about philosophical presentism - I'll a look online for more info. Hmm it's strange, personally I think objectively that the flow of time is real, but subjectively it feels like all of my existence is just this single moment in time.
I do have have moments of happiness and peace thanks, but my problem is that because my life essentially seems to just be this single moment in time, if that moment isn't pleasant it seems like that is my whole life which is what makes life - not unbearable, but more unfulfilling because it's not possible to have a life where every moment is amazing.
[EDIT] It's why I intend to leave, because to me nonexistence is preferable. I imagine it to be like when I'm asleep, or the time before I was born. Just nothing
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Aponia & Ataraxia
Experienced
- Jun 24, 2018
- 233
I don't think I've related to anyone online as much as you
Living in a continuous, single moment: couldn't agree more.
I actually have parosmia (decreased sense of smell). Also used to have a fully functioning sense of smell until 2 years ago, and my mood never returned to normal levels.
Most of all: had I been born at all, it's clear to me that this strip of spacetime colloquially known as the first half of the 21st century is not for me. 'Spatiotemporal misalignment' is the large-scale background reason for why I'll be cutting my stay here short.
Not possible to have a life where every moment is amazing: Due to the inherent abrasive character of time as we experience it in the given universe, whether or not other universes actually exist. We have to work very long and hard for the chance to reap a shorter, more fragile benefit.
Yea, automation & UBI ftw. Same here with university, I lack any good path to getting there. I'll be leaving my younger brother behind, and the thing that gave me some insight into my own reality, is that he even he said "I was born at the wrong time" (around the age of 14, before I had taught him anything about automation, UBI, transhuman/post-human, anti-ageing biotech, etc.)
To be assembled here into an untimely/mismatched era relative to one's disposition, then having to struggle financially in secrecy to obtain the necessary substances, equipment, & accommodations... just to go back to that plane of timelessness and sleep ...odd place this is. I hope and plea for the expedient construction of a post-human world including those declining fertility rates, --those who are already alive, and those born into a smaller pool of their peers will already be far better off than we were. Humorous to think we missed the boat by a mere couple hundred years, virtually nothing in cosmic time. Take care, my friend. I'm sure I'll see you around before I make my escape ;)