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[dragonofenvy]

I haven't been employed for the past month and have been really struggling to get a new job. The last job I had was mainly due to my social worker connecting me to the place, but I have had two other jobs prior to this that I got on my own. I've been getting a fair amount of interviews but nothing ever extends past the in-person interview. I'm not sure exactly why that is because I don't get feedback other than "you did a good job answering our questions." when I ask them if they have any concerns or reasons that they'd not hire me. Asperger's might be playing a role but it ain't something I can exactly control. I unfortunately do not have any references, nor do I have the ability to obtain any. My resume is clearly decent enough that I get interviews but I am somehow not able to advance beyond that point and I've done at least 10 in-person interviews and 25 phone interviews in the past month out of the 50 or so jobs I've applied for. I'm not sure if I'm being too honest (ie: if I can't answer a question I'll say that I don't have an answer instead of making something up on the spot) and should just talk in corporate drone language and use buzzwords and all that crap just to get a working-class job. Maybe I should just pretend I never went to college so they don't think I'm one of those overqualified people who will be "challenging"?

I'm not totally sure what specifically I'm asking for here, but any advice, even if general and vague would be appreciated. I know I can just google advice but it's all the stuff I've heard before and I'd rather hear what real people have to say and what worked for them.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

May I ask what kinds of jobs you are applying for?

 

[dragonofenvy]

May I ask what kinds of jobs you are applying for?

Primarily in manufacturing/factory jobs, as that's where I was previously employed. I tried for an ISP as well since I have a computer science education and while not even close to the same it's vaguely what I was educated for and generally the same thought process to perform the tasks. I also applied to several delivery driver jobs and worked for one briefly, before receiving my paycheck and coming to the conclusion that $12/hr + tips isn't sustainable, especially since it's wearing out my old vehicle (I also had bad and dangerous experiences as a driver). My previous job paid me $21/hr and that was enough for me to survive on (taxes in my state are extremely high so this shoots down to about $15/hr after just taxes, not to mention other deductions). I would like $800 per week ($20/hr) if possible, but would settle for a bit less.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

In my opinion I would try to apply for more computer science jobs if that is what your degree is in, as there should hopefully be a lot more CS jobs than qualified applicants to fill them, and the potential to work remote.

In general though if the interviewer asks you a question and you tell them direclty that you don't have an answer I think it sends them a bad message. Corporations (from my limited experience) want people who can think flexibly and on the spot to come up with some solution (anything). They would rather you try to answer the question, show your creative reasoning skills, and get it wrong instead of just saying you don't know at all.

Answering with any kind of solution and being at least mildly passionate about it shows that you care. Saying "I don't know" makes them think you don't, especially when dealing with any technical tests or "applied" questions.

For example:
Interviewer: How would you establish a function to call later to make my robotic arm bring me my coffee?
Interviewee: I would verbally tell the robot exactly how to bring you your coffee immediately because robots respond best to exact commands with as little room for error as possible. (wrong answer but confident, enthusiastic, and with semi- logical reasoning - interviewer thinks you are stupid now but has some confidence that you could be trained)

Sometimes the question may be more like "do you have X skill" which is harder to work through if you don't have the skill, but if you don't have the skill, instead of flat saying no, you could say no but bring up related experience.

For example:
Interviewer: Do you have experience repairing bicycles?
Interviewee: I don't have experience directly with repairing bicycles but it has been something that has interested me a lot, especially since I ride my bicycle all the time and know that bicycles have gear systems just like my car that I like to work on by replacing all the gears in the transmission like a maniac. I am really interested in the repair of vehicles that move in general and am honestly excited to learn more though, since I do this in my spare time too.


On a side note, if you are applying for regular positions on the assembly line, mentioning the degree is likely hindering your application since it will make them think you are overqualified and will ditch the company the first chance you get (unless you are applying for a technical role). That being said if you do not mention it it could complicate things if you want to move up within the company later, so I personally would keep it there anyways. Is it possible to apply as an assembly line technician instead? There should be many jobs in factorys that require at least an associates in CS for maintenence and repair of the robots (although you might be kept in a windowless white room with constant whirring from your robotic friends all day lol). It should pay much better too.

Also Just my opinion, I hope it somehow helped, but I am no expert lol

 

[Grumble]

What about presenting yourself as a person with disability?

It could give you more leeway in an interview situation and also add an incentive for an employer to hire you as it allows them to "check off a box" that contributes to their pseudo-quota of disability-related hires (ie. it makes them look good).

As far as living with a disability, you just put a positive spin on it. "Yeah, I have this added challenge in life, but I'm always working towards improving myself and overcoming barriers."

 

[dragonofenvy]

In my opinion I would try to apply for more computer science jobs if that is what your degree is in, as there should hopefully be a lot more CS jobs than qualified applicants to fill them, and the potential to work remote.

In general though if the interviewer asks you a question and you tell them direclty that you don't have an answer I think it sends them a bad message. Corporations (from my limited experience) want people who can think flexibly and on the spot to come up with some solution (anything). They would rather you try to answer the question, show your creative reasoning skills, and get it wrong instead of just saying you don't know at all.

Answering with any kind of solution and being at least mildly passionate about it shows that you care. Saying "I don't know" makes them think you don't, especially when dealing with any technical tests or "applied" questions.

For example:
Interviewer: How would you establish a function to call later to make my robotic arm bring me my coffee?
Interviewee: I would verbally tell the robot exactly how to bring you your coffee immediately because robots respond best to exact commands with as little room for error as possible. (wrong answer but confident, enthusiastic, and with semi- logical reasoning - interviewer thinks you are stupid now but has some confidence that you could be trained)

Sometimes the question may be more like "do you have X skill" which is harder to work through if you don't have the skill, but if you don't have the skill, instead of flat saying no, you could say no but bring up related experience.

For example:
Interviewer: Do you have experience repairing bicycles?
Interviewee: I don't have experience directly with repairing bicycles but it has been something that has interested me a lot, especially since I ride my bicycle all the time and know that bicycles have gear systems just like my car that I like to work on by replacing all the gears in the transmission like a maniac. I am really interested in the repair of vehicles that move in general and am honestly excited to learn more though, since I do this in my spare time too.


On a side note, if you are applying for regular positions on the assembly line, mentioning the degree is likely hindering your application since it will make them think you are overqualified and will ditch the company the first chance you get (unless you are applying for a technical role). That being said if you do not mention it it could complicate things if you want to move up within the company later, so I personally would keep it there anyways. Is it possible to apply as an assembly line technician instead? There should be many jobs in factorys that require at least an associates in CS for maintenence and repair of the robots (although you might be kept in a windowless white room with constant whirring from your robotic friends all day lol). It should pay much better too.

Also Just my opinion, I hope it somehow helped, but I am no expert lol

I never really thought about it as "thinking flexibly". So thank you for that. I don't deal with any technical tests as they're all entry-level positions unrelated to CS. It's mostly things like "Why do you want to work here?" (always have trouble with that) or "Can you give me an example of when you provided exceptional *insert thing here.*" CS is sadly no longer an option to me sadly considering that I don't actually have a degree, merely finished all of the coursework but failed to meet their internship requirement to be awarded it.

What about presenting yourself as a person with disability?

It could give you more leeway in an interview situation and also add an incentive for an employer to hire you as it allows them to "check off a box" that contributes to their pseudo-quota of disability-related hires (ie. it makes them look good).

As far as living with a disability, you just put a positive spin on it. "Yeah, I have this added challenge in life, but I'm always working towards improving myself and overcoming barriers."

This is illegal to do so if you cannot prove you're disabled. Asperger's, while a cognitive impairment that has in fact, severely impacted my life, does not qualify as a disability, at least insofar as the government is concerned. Mentioning you have autism is generally a horrible idea since you're not a diversity hire, but rather someone that needs to be dealt with. There is a very very bad stigma around it that I could into specifically if you wanted to, but let's just say there's a reason 85% of autistic people are unemployed (the link provided is one source, but the other sources I've looked into generally reach the same conclusion). I'm not someone who wants or needs accommodation, I want to be told what to do and I'll do it, but mentioning it will undoubtedly have me face hiring discrimination. Also, while having principles generally doesn't get you anywhere, I'd really rather not be a diversity hire I want to be hired because I am good enough to do the job.

Now, trying to find a way to spin my life experiences into a way that said that I faced adversity and came through without directly giving it away, now that's an idea that you gave me. Thanks.

 

[Grumble]

@dragonofenvy I recognize your choice and personal stance on this. For anybody else who might be reading this, I do want to say that Asperger's falls under the autism spectrum disorder umbrella which is considered a disability both for legal purposes and otherwise. I'd also question what portion of that 85% ever tried presenting themselves as such.

For interviewing in general, another thing that comes to mind is to try to connect with the interviewer on a personal level. Even the smallest thing, like maybe you both take your coffee with a "quintuple sugar and nothing else", can trigger a personal connection and lead into other idle personal chit chat. Who knows how many people they're interviewing and how those numbers could contribute to them doing the interviews like robots. If you can humanize yourself, you can maybe at least distinguish yourself from candidates who are just robotically going through the motions.

Also, if you're feeling a bit "conversationally stiff" before an interview, try making a few phone calls beforehand, or have conversations with a few strangers beforehand. That way, you're kind of warming up your social skills before you have to engage the interviewer.

 

[Ambivalent1]

I haven't worked in years. Being unemployable sucks.

 

[Proteus]

What about presenting yourself as a person with disability?

Youu need to prove it. You can't just make it up.

 

[Grumble]

Youu need to prove it. You can't just make it up.

I totally understand anybody who doesn't want to present themselves as having a disability, due to the stigma. The stigma is awful, and it is widespread.

What I'm not quite following here is the concerns about the legality of doing so. Not only is autism a disability, it's one of the easier ones to "prove" as it is an incurable neurological condition that is diagnosed through objective testing.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

I was diagnosed with ASD as well, I can understand wanting to hide it due to the stigma around it. The 85% figure was surprsing though. I figured there were still a good amount who worked in STEM fields or as grocery clerks depending on their ability. It makes you wonder if most of that figure ends up on the streets.

I agree that companies usually don't have diversity, equity and inclusion requirements for disabilities like they have them for other demographics, and in the rarer case they do they seem to prioritize physical disabilities to fill the slot. The interview unfortunately can be incredibly subjective as well which puts people with ASD at a disadvantage despite their ability.

If you think you can hide it or present yourself completely normally so that they dont find out until after you are hired it may be better.

Alternatively if that is too hard right now it could be better to act as normal as is possible for you and also disclose that you have ASD as kind of a "disclaimer" so that the interviewer might go a little easier on you for social infractions. (I'm sorry that probably doesn't help much, it has to be up to your judgement, or maybe try asking some people who you know irl their opinions if you can)


----

If you don't have a degree in CS yet and are just applying for the assembly line I would not mention your classes/ skills in CS at all (for now). There is no benefit to mentioning it.

If you wanted to move up or transfer to another position within the company later you could always earn a CS degree or learn more about CS and then bring it up to your coworkers or the interviewer for the next position.

If you already had a CS degree, it would be kind of weird to not mention it and then try to bring it up later (sounds manipulative to the company), but since you don't have the degree yet and are applying for an unrelated position, it will just make you sound overqualified and like a flight risk to the company. There is nothing weird about mentioning later that you learned more about CS/ got a degree in the time since you got hired and want to apply for a better position internally. The company will likely give you an advantage over external hires too.

But I only have had a few internships and seasonal work, some of this is from my own experiences and some is taken from advice I myself received from other people, so please take it all with a grain of salt since it may or may not be applicable.

 

[dragonofenvy]

Asperger's falls under the autism spectrum disorder umbrella which is considered a disability both for legal purposes and otherwise.

I was not considered autistic enough to get any disability benefits in the US, hence why I hesitate to call myself disabled if the government doesn't deem me so. I could probably go to a neurologist again and see what happens. Plus, I have 0 idea where my records are, unfortunately. Probably at my parent's. From what my parents told me there's apparently some point scale they use to determine if you're a disabled autistic or not, and I was 1 point off from being considered disabled.

due to the stigma. The stigma is awful, and it is widespread.

This is also the part I fear. I've been stigmatized by letting people know I had Asperger's and I don't see why employers wouldn't do the same. I've had supervisors in old workplaces berate me after I told them since they always wondered why I was always so weird to them. Due to 99% of people's lack of knowledge of it and how it's portrayed in movies, shows, the news, and other media, it's more risky than anything else. If you don't know, most people I've talked to are surprised to know that I'm not a violent person who has 0 emotions because they genuinely think autism = sociopathy. There's also the standard "you don't look autistic" and "but you're really smart I don't get it." The latter two, eh fair enough I guess since those have some amount of truth to them for those who are really far down the spectrum to the point of being intellectually disabled.

If you don't have a degree in CS yet and are just applying for the assembly line I would not mention your classes/ skills in CS at all (for now). There is no benefit to mentioning it.

Yeah from now on I'm just gonna say I have a GED but have CS knowledge, since some of the places I have applied to want people with a bit of CS skills, but not a CS major.

 

[Grumble]

@dragonofenvy - Job-related disability issues are governed by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). You are diagnosed ASD and you are posting on a suicide forum about how your ASD is hindering your attempts at finding a job. I guarantee you in the strongest possible way that people in your situation are exactly who the ADA is meant to protect and that you are definitely within your legal right to say you have a disability.

SSI has a higher threshold of what they consider "disabled", of course because they don't want too many people being paid out of social security. They also make people fight for it through repeated denials and appeals even when they're blatantly medically eligible. I think I know the points system you're referring to, and I can see them denying such a case on the basis of "only" ASD. However, here you are, an active member on a suicide forum which might imply you've got a suicidal depression going on as well (?) which, added onto a case involving ASD, would make for a strong argument towards SSI approval.

Can you see the news headline? "Autistic man who couldn't get hired for any jobs dies by suicide after being denied disability benefits."

SSI is a political matter, and a news headline like that is a politician's nightmare. A little while back (within the past 10-15 years) the UK was internationally disgraced because of multiple news headlines similar to that, and they wound up making some policy changes in the aftermath. (The UK's disability benefits system is still awful, but they did soften it relative to what it previously was.)

Of course, it's one thing to be technically eligible for SSI, but it's a whole other issue to actually prove it. You'd have to see doctors and be very open and forthcoming about any depression or suicidality, probably get the help of a legal aid lawyer (on contingency), and endure multiple denials and appeals along the way. They make it as difficult as possible because they want to keep their costs down and they count on people giving up their cases even though they're actually eligible.

So while I think you'd eventually be approved for SSI, it would likely take quite a fight to make it happen.

Obviously, if one of these job interviews can come through for you, that's probably the much preferable option.

I've been stigmatized by letting people know I had Asperger's and I don't see why employers wouldn't do the same. I've had supervisors in old workplaces berate me after I told them since they always wondered why I was always so weird to them. Due to 99% of people's lack of knowledge of it and how it's portrayed in movies, shows, the news, and other media, it's more risky than anything else. If you don't know, most people I've talked to are surprised to know that I'm not a violent person who has 0 emotions because they genuinely think autism = sociopathy. There's also the standard "you don't look autistic" and "but you're really smart I don't get it."

This is a failure on the part of our governments and our society as a whole.

It's an awful thing to have to keep this hidden from people due to there being so much ignorance and intolerance.