Discussion It terrifies me how blasé doctors are about handing out antidepressants.

[Ta555]

The usual disclaimer: they are lifesavers for some people etc etc. No stigma about taking medication. Obviously take it if it helps you.

However, I think it is irrefutable by now that these drugs ruin lives. People suffer horrific side effects and then even worse when they try to stop.

I am sensitive to medications and have had horrible experiences with psychiatric meds in particular but every specialist I see just wants to throw SSRIs at me because my health issues are too complex to bother with.

Just yesterday I had another specialist, an otherwise nice woman, suggest an SSRI would perk and rebalance me right up. Her speciality has nothing to do with the brain btw. Her rationale was that someone in her family had atypical depression and it fixed them, let alone the fact that I'm not depressed, I'm just struggling with some sort of unidentified neurological/mysterious health problem and if I wasn't I'd actually be pretty content.

The thing that floored me though was her casually saying "The worst that could happen is they don't agree with you and don't help and then you just stop taking them."

No, I'm sorry, but that's not the worst that could happen. People have had long-term damage from just a few weeks on these drugs and this is not a risk I'm willing to take in my condition.

I don't know why doctors are like this. Are they really just ignorant or they know the horrors that could happen but it's just easier to fob people off onto antidepressants and hope it will fix them without them having to investigate any further.

I'm still gobsmacked

 

[archipelago]

The usual disclaimer: they are lifesavers for some people etc etc. No stigma about taking medication. Obviously take it if it helps you.

However, I think it is irrefutable by now that these drugs ruin lives. People suffer horrific side effects and then even worse when they try to stop.

I am sensitive to medications and have had horrible experiences with psychiatric meds in particular but every specialist I see just wants to throw SSRIs at me because my health issues are too complex to bother with.

Just yesterday I had another specialist, an otherwise nice woman, suggest an SSRI would perk and rebalance me right up. Her speciality has nothing to do with the brain btw. Her rationale was that someone in her family had atypical depression and it fixed them, let alone the fact that I'm not depressed, I'm just struggling with some sort of unidentified neurological/mysterious health problem and if I wasn't I'd actually be pretty content.

The thing that floored me though was her casually saying "The worst that could happen is they don't agree with you and don't help and then you just stop taking them."

No, I'm sorry, but that's not the worst that could happen. People have had long-term damage from just a few weeks on these drugs and this is not a risk I'm willing to take in my condition.

I don't know why doctors are like this. Are they really just ignorant or they know the horrors that could happen but it's just easier to fob people off onto antidepressants and hope it will fix them without them having to investigate any further.

I'm still gobsmacked

They're like this because I've learned it's too easy for others (not only doctors) to pass off someone else's risk as acceptable, when they don't have to face it themselves.

It's helped me understand that the opinions of such people are often irrelevant.

 

[anon00]

It's pure ignorance. They simple don't know how dangerous these drugs are. A large part of that is because the research has been corrupted by the pharmaceutical industry. Medicine is no longer based on robust science.

On top of that, there is confirmation bias. Doctors who see patients on drugs that they believe are safe are much more likely to attribute their symptoms to "mental illness" than to the drug. Many of the harms of SSRIs can easily be mistaken for "mental illness" symptoms and so they just believe that the drugs didn't help the patient rather than seeing the harm that was caused.

This confirmation bias is increased because doctors are trained to believe in scientific articles published in medical journals as a basis for evidence based medicine. The stronger their belief in those papers, the more they will doubt a patient saying they have been harmed because it contradicts the authority that they believe in. Of course when many of those papers are designed and written by the companies that make the drugs and are not open to outside scrutiny (even peer reviewers don't have access to raw data from drug trials!) then the doctors are trusting a source that is completely unreliable.

Many of the doctors who are more open to the idea that SSRIs cause harm are those that have seen for themselves how pharma has cheated and lied in medical journals.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

They can literally make people suicidal. I was on antidepressants for 25 years and one of the problems is they can elevate your mood and blind you to deeper problems and issues. I'm not saying they're entirely useless. But I think it would take some real artistry on the part of a therapist to guide a patient through the process of taking antidepressants and then using them to build a foundation of long-term behavior that creates a thriving life. Just handing out brain candy and making people feel good is not a solution whatsoever. It's putting a Band-Aid over a festering wound.

 

[Smart No More]

I whole heartedly agree! I can't tell you just how refreshing it is to read the understandings in this thread so far.

I have various neurological and physical issues as a result of something that happened 1.5yrs ago. Accidental poisoning. I went through an initial period of intense illness and it was frightening. It took months for me to realise what had happened and as I had covid at the time I was blaming my symptoms on that initially. However it hit a point where it was clear something else was going on. When I visited doctors in distress and struggling to communicate due to the neurological issues on top of the physical pain they tried to fob me off with psych meds to my dismay. I exclaimed that something is really wrong. They said its probably just bit of gastritis and when I tried to describe my symptoms further I was treated like a hypochondriac and that has permiated up the chain. It was so distressing to be treated as though what was happening was a result of my mental state and not being able to get treated for the actual issue in a timely manner (if at all) has left me with what willl no doubt be untreatable problems. I am still fighting this and it shows no signs of improving even though I've highlighted concerns much like those mirrored in this thread. It's met with disbelief and each attempt seems to further solidify misconceptions that I have mental health issues. I've never struggled with mental health and am lucky to have lived a very happy life on that front. Unfortunately now I'm not sure where to turn for help as the very system put in place to help me is actually more likely to do more damage and is essentially sidestepping treating the actual underlying problem in favour of chucking psych meds at it. Which isn't what I need or want. Much like @Ta555 I'm not willing to further mess with my bodies chemestry when I'm already in a fragile state. It's entirely illogical and it perplexes me almost as much as it angers me. It's a very helpless and hopeless situation to be in and it's my reason for looking towards ctb.( I'm a shadow of the person I was and my quality of life is very low). They're just so wreckless and its baffled me that such a scientific community lack objectivity and there approach is of a 'suck it and see' nature with no regard for the detrimental fallout that might have on a patient. Were they to carry out a test that showed a lack of serotonine (for example) then sure, I would try those meds but that's not the case and that kind of scientific focus is lacking. Since my realisation of the cause of my issues they've neglected to address it and I get that it's pretty unusual but it doesn't make it any less real. The questions they ask are leading in a manner befitting their assumptions and there'a no attempt to corroborate or even humour my claims. It's neglegent and cruel and that they would throw potentially damaging psych meds into the mix is just downright heartless and disturbing. It certainly goes against the hypocratic oaths "first and foremost do no harm" but highlighting this will do you no good.

I must asmit I was totally ignorant to this issue until I faced it and its been a massive shock to the system. I've seen things highlighted in a new light and am now aware of how many people must have been damged and wronged throughout the years in this system. Public awareness of these issues is in the dark ages and it needs bringing to light just as much as many of the social and societal injustices in the forefront lately. Perhaps even more so.

Honestly the war on drugs needs to be focused on the healthcare system. It would do more good!

 

[wljourney]

Most doctors only listen to the positive experiences and data while completely disregarding and dismissing the negative consequences some people suffer.
They are not the ones having to deal with the consequences.
They are not the ones hanging over the toilet throwing their guts up.
They are not the ones developing an addiction.
They are not the ones hurting.

It's easy to write a script if you are not the one taking it.

 

[Fengshuiside]

I get you. I learned the hard way not to trust Big Pharma or doctors. In my country(like everywhere) psychotherapy is very expensive. However, you can get assistance from the government, so they'll pay 40% of the bills. There is one condition though. You must be on an antidepressant that helps you.

So say because of your depression, your ability to perform in daily life could be at 30% compared to normal. A doctor can only give a report that the patient can get psychotherapy when an AD has been found that raises the patient's ability to perform to at least 70% from normal.

Also doctors don't tell this to patients. They just ask in each meeting "How would you evaluate your current performance with these medications". If you say it's below 70%, you're not getting therapy.

 

[Ravel]

Psychiatrists are drug dealers. I took antidepressants, anxioltics since I was 13 years old. ruined my life. I've never met a psychiatrist who seemed to have the slightest bit of empathy for me. They don't even look at me while talking, idk maybe it's the healthcare system here in my country that is so bad. I will never take an antidepressant again in my life.

 

[myopybyproxy]

100% agree. they are not educated and are paid to fill quotas so that big pharma's pockets become evermore engorged

 

[Forever Sleep]

It really troubles me hearing everyone's stories and I feel so bad for you when the things that are supposed to make you better end up making you worse.

I've only been on a short course of Fluoxetine (Prozac) and I don't think it really helped- maybe because it was such a short course...

What really scares me is that I don't believe even the scientists totally understand how the brain works. It really disturbs me when you hear stuff like (paraphrasing here...)- 'We don't know the full extent of how the drug works but it does seem to help.' Hmmm, kind of sounds like an experiment then?

I agree that most things in this world are money-driven including health care- at the expense of peoples health (ironically).

What I find even more disturbing is that depression and suicidal thoughts are seen as symptoms of a sick, unnatural brain- so- let's all take unnatural chemicals to fix it!

That's not to say I disagree with trying to medicate if it works for you- it just seems like there's something terribly wrong with the world if we need to be medicated to be able to cope with it.

 

[starryeyedgemini]

Ive been on prozac for a few months now. Howver i have enough brain cells to realise that medication only masks your depression and doesnt address/ treat the underlying causes and issues. I tried to access counselling/ therapy via my private health care provider in the united kingdom as i thought this approach of both medication and therapy was my best chance at getting better. However when i opened up about.my failed suicide attempt. Tried to drown my self in my bath. My counsellor tried to say i was too emotionally fragile for help and i needed to review my medication before he would help me further. I feel so let down.

 

[Smart No More]

Ive been on prozac for a few months now. Howver i have enough brain cells to realise that medication only masks your depression and doesnt address/ treat the underlying causes and issues. I tried to access counselling/ therapy via my private health care provider in the united kingdom as i thought this approach of both medication and therapy was my best chance at getting better. However when i opened up about.my failed suicide attempt. Tried to drown my self in my bath. My counsellor tried to say i was too emotionally fragile for help and i needed to review my medication before he would help me further. I feel so let down.

Gah, talk about washing their hands of you! They're too scared of the ramifications of getting it wrong and the hard work the challenge of treating someone like yourself presents. Chucking drugs at things is so much easier and passes the buck to some extent.

Hope you find a better practioner. Can you ask for a second opinion or is that not a thing in the National Health Service?

 

[starryeyedgemini]

Talk about washing their handa. They're too scared of the ramifications of getting it wrong and the hard work the challenge of treating someone presents. Chucking drugs at things is so much easier and passes the buck to some extent.

Hope you find a better practioner. Can you ask for a second opinion ir that not a thing in the National Health Service?

As i had access to the counsellor through private health care i can only get a 2nd opinion through a therapist that they cover. Its bullshit. On the NHS the waiting list for counselling/, CBT is over a year hence why i tried the private route. Unfortunatley i dont see things getting any easier.

 

[Dot]

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[GentleJerk]

Same. It's fucking EVIL.

 

[ConstantPain]

In a different thread I wrote about tramadol being the only drug that's helped my depression. I've tried a ton of antidepressants and none of them has helped whatsoever and some have had side effects.
For years and years I've been on a high dose of tramadol with no side effects. When I had to change doctors, the new one reduced my dose. I eventually started getting more depressed and his solution was to prescribe duloxetine (cymbalta). 60mgs/day was fine but not really doing anything for me so he raised it to 90mgs/day. That made me so much worse! It was terrible and I've reduced myself back down to 60 and eventually 30. When I go back to the doctor I'm telling him I am done with it and wouldn't it make sense to increase my dose of tramadol, since it actually worked?!

 

[AliceTheGoon]

Yep...there is nothing more red pill/blue pill than discovering doctor ignorance on this subject. And how that infests public perception in general.

 

[nolifer]

Most doctors/psychologists/psychoiatrists and so on don't really know what they're doing. It's very easy to get a degree/certificate, it just takes a long time but it's easy. You barely have to study. You can pass the exams without even buying the books for courses and without attending classes. So all it takes is time and potentially money to get the degree, you don't have to know what you're doing. And because doctors and psychiatrists are always in demand everywhere they can get a job no matter what grades they had.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Antidepressants can elevate your mood but it is the very definition of gaslighting…

 

[Smart No More]

In a different thread I wrote about tramadol being the only drug that's helped my depression. I've tried a ton of antidepressants and none of them has helped whatsoever and some have had side effects.
For years and years I've been on a high dose of tramadol with no side effects. When I had to change doctors, the new one reduced my dose. I eventually started getting more depressed and his solution was to prescribe duloxetine (cymbalta). 60mgs/day was fine but not really doing anything for me so he raised it to 90mgs/day. That made me so much worse! It was terrible and I've reduced myself back down to 60 and eventually 30. When I go back to the doctor I'm telling him I am done with it and wouldn't it make sense to increase my dose of tramadol, since it actually worked?!

Sorry you're having to deal with ignorance. It's insane that they will throw potentially damaging psych meds (which I argue are far worse than addictive opioids) but won't prescribe a pain killer. The sheer idiocy of pushing one over the other is just lunacy. They're so indoctrinated though, they can't see the wood for the trees. No matter how logically you put it to them.

I have found opioids to have an extremely useful uplifting effect whilst leaving me functional too. Methadone is a really good one because it has a long half life and you don't grow tolerance to it like most opioids. Getting it is not easy though. Inless you're an addict but even you'll have to jump through hoops and you only get it for a brief time. I've been looking for it on dark net markets but with no luck. Occasionally a few 100ml pops up but its not enough for stable supply and without that there's no point. As someone with chronic pain you may be able to get it as it is used that way. Having not tried tramadol however, I couldn't speak for the comparisons between them.

 

[toasterbath]

Psych meds are literally melting my brain and ruining me not to mention the side effects

 

[Ta555]

Most doctors/psychologists/psychoiatrists and so on don't really know what they're doing. It's very easy to get a degree/certificate, it just takes a long time but it's easy. You barely have to study. You can pass the exams without even buying the books for courses and without attending classes. So all it takes is time and potentially money to get the degree, you don't have to know what you're doing. And because doctors and psychiatrists are always in demand everywhere they can get a job no matter what grades they had.

What are you talking about? Psychiatrists have to go through med school and become doctors then specialise in the pseudoscience that is psychiatry. It's not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

Ive been on prozac for a few months now. Howver i have enough brain cells to realise that medication only masks your depression and doesnt address/ treat the underlying causes and issues. I tried to access counselling/ therapy via my private health care provider in the united kingdom as i thought this approach of both medication and therapy was my best chance at getting better. However when i opened up about.my failed suicide attempt. Tried to drown my self in my bath. My counsellor tried to say i was too emotionally fragile for help and i needed to review my medication before he would help me further. I feel so let down.

I don't really believe this idea of meds masking the 'real' cause of depression which implies the real cause is psychological. I believe 'mental health's problems are often brain problems but not because of chemical imbalance which is bullshit and unproven, but because of inflammation and viral load etc. Covid is showing this really well with people experiencing all sorts of horrific depression, anxiety and psychosis after getting the virus because of brain inflammation.

 

[starryeyedgemini]

What are you talking about? Psychiatrists have to go through med school and become doctors then specialise in the pseudoscience that is psychiatry. It's not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't really believe this idea of meds masking the 'real' cause of depression which implies the real cause is psychological. I believe 'mental health's problems are often brain problems but not because of chemical imbalance which is bullshit and unproven, but because of inflammation and viral load etc. Covid is showing this really well with people experiencing all sorts of horrific depression, anxiety and psychosis after getting the virus because of brain inflammation.

@Ta555 i appreciate what youre saying. i have suffered witn my mental health most of my life. Mental and verbal abuse from my stepdad which triggered an eating disorder as a teenager. I was then raped when i was 17 whilst on a date. Only a few people know about that to this day then after being gas lighted by my gp for years i was diagnosed with endometriosis which has got worse over time. Prehaps all these traumatic events have taken their toll on me

 

[The Abyss]

Medical industry is paid off by pharma to push their products & alchemy/botany is a lost art.