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A

Alan James

Arcanist
Apr 11, 2019
408
It sometimes surprises me how many medications exist and almost all of them are useless crap: they do not heal, they have many side effects, can be addictive, you can't successfully use them for CTB (unless accidentally), they can accumulate in the body and they are harmful to health.

All drugs from which you can CTB very throughly removed and prohibited. Every day someone asks if this or that medicine will help to CTB and all of it will not help

And these drugs can give you against your will in hospitals and then take money for it. And even if taking these medicines will harm your health you will not be able to return the money. Drug cartels never even dreamed of such income as those what have pharmacological corporations.
 
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D

Donewith_

Elementalist
Sep 28, 2018
876
true.. but aren't the same drugs being useful for many people ? making a world of difference?
many illnesses are not getting healed with the medicines we have now, but, many people have also lived many years because of these same medicines and it helps some to feel better too..
the thing about side effects is true..
but, if you are talking from the viewpoint of a person(who wants to leave with OD specifically) alone, that can be understood.
 
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A

ArtVandelay

Experienced
Apr 15, 2019
266
Pharmaceutical companies would not benefit from selling drugs that heal or that are used for CTB. They want you to remain sick so they can keep taking your money. I know this is an oversimplification, but it's mostly true.
 
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H

headinghome

Experienced
Apr 11, 2019
205
Pharmaceutical companies would not benefit from selling drugs that heal or that are used for CTB. They want you to remain sick so they can keep taking your money. I know this is an oversimplification, but it's mostly true.
yes most are toxic and do more harm than good...of course there are exceptions.....
 
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W

Walilamdzi

.
Mar 21, 2019
1,700
Yeah. It's criminal. I hope the industry falls apart and they're held accountable but there are no signs of that yet.
 
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S

spanishguy22

Enlightened
Apr 9, 2019
1,003
I'm taking St John's Wort and it's taken the edge so much of my severe depression almost instantly. Now it's bereable for me til I ctb. Wish I tries this sooner.
 
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J

Jolene40

Specialist
Oct 6, 2018
370
All i will say is before my rotten diseases took hold i suffered some acute periods of severe anxiety and depression. I took sertraline (A.D) and felt even more nutty for 6 weeks then suddenly life was wonderful and i had the best 3 years of my life! Self esteem went right up, i looked fantastic, i bought a house, i met my partner at the time. It was pretty fantastic for me. I was skipping down the street.
I came off them when pregnant and could never tolerate them again.
 
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S

spanishguy22

Enlightened
Apr 9, 2019
1,003
All i will say is before my rotten diseases took hold i suffered some acute periods of severe anxiety and depression. I took sertraline (A.D) and felt even more nutty for 6 weeks then suddenly life was wonderful and i had the best 3 years of my life! Self esteem went right up, i looked fantastic, i bought a house, i met my partner at the time. It was pretty fantastic for me. I was skipping down the street.
I came off them when pregnant and could never tolerate them again.
When did you first become depressed? Like what age? I'd like to take it but I think for childhood depression it's useless
 
J

Jolene40

Specialist
Oct 6, 2018
370
When did you first become depressed? Like what age? I'd like to take it but I think for childhood depression it's useless

I took this at age 27. I first suffered anxiety and depression about 18 years old. It's so hit and miss as you just don't know how you might react. Im no advocate of big pharma but they can help some people.
There's the option of starting on half a tablet maybe and seeing how you go.

How old are you??
 
S

spanishguy22

Enlightened
Apr 9, 2019
1,003
I took this at age 27. I first suffered anxiety and depression about 18 years old. It's so hit and miss as you just don't know how you might react. Im no advocate of big pharma but they can help some people.
There's the option of starting on half a tablet maybe and seeing how you go.

How old are you??
22. I'll try maybe
 
alizee

alizee

Arcanist
Jul 22, 2018
452
The majority of products & services in this world are snake oil. As an example, I'm guessing a lot of people suffering migrants are just not getting the exercise or vitamins needed and or are suffering from an unhealthy life in general. Similar to people labeled as depressed its going to be the life events that were unfavourable and they just needed the events they didn't have happen; that wouldn't have resulted in the person fitting the diagnosis.

Big pharma is 99% in it for the money because life can be enjoyable without some high moral purpose. The people who seek a moral purpose field for their life are either already miserable or suffering something related to why they want to go into the field. On the other hand, the majority entering the field just wants enough money and to enjoy off time from work.
 
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J

Jolene40

Specialist
Oct 6, 2018
370
22. I'll try maybe

It absolutely was not placebo for me. It worked and worked well. If you feel so horrific you want to die i think some tabs are worth a go. It annoys me that it can make you feel worse to begin with and that is massively underestimated. They say up to 8 weeks to adjust which i know is a long wait
 
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S

spanishguy22

Enlightened
Apr 9, 2019
1,003
It absolutely was not placebo for me. It worked and worked well. If you feel so horrific you want to die i think some tabs are worth a go. It annoys me that it can make you feel worse to begin with and that is massively underestimated. They say up to 8 weeks to adjust which i know is a long wait
Ok i hope u feel better too thanks:)
 
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J

Jolene40

Specialist
Oct 6, 2018
370
Ok i hope u feel better too thanks:)

I had some diazepam to soften the adjustment period when i started sertraline. It worked so well didnt need the diaz once ADs kicked in.
 
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Divine Trinity

Divine Trinity

Pugna Vigil
Mar 20, 2019
310
W
true.. but aren't the same drugs being useful for many people ? making a world of difference?
many illnesses are not getting healed with the medicines we have now, but, many people have also lived many years because of these same medicines and it helps some to feel better too..
the thing about side effects is true..
but, if you are talking from the viewpoint of a person(who wants to leave with OD specifically) alone, that can be understood.
What difference? You have a chronic illness/disability, take drugs to feel normal, feel bad/health declines if you stop. What difference, as far as medical treatment, is that from prescribing meth to a meth addict?

Take our medical institutions, add in some consumerism, with a dash of unhealthy/unsustainable lifestyles and you get artificial addiction. Where external forces, rather than internal, force you into a perpetual cycle of consumption or death. You are not given an alternative.

Artificial addiction is different from natural addiction in that no temporary pleasure is ever gained from most of these drugs, it's a perpetual cycle of agony until you either die from your illness, go bankrupt (in US), or die from the side effects.

A bs trick used by some people in various fields to support their narrative is they'll say how Average Life Span has been increasing (well it's not in the US). What they leave out is that it's not because adults are healthier and living longer than before, that's marginal, it's mainly because infant mortality has declined in the last 100-200 years. What the biggest cause of infant mortality? Infectious disease, which is easily prevented with modest sanitation practices, followed by malnutrition. When those problems are solved the population's avg lifespan naturally increases because the lowest quartile is increased (ie people die at 40 instead of 6 months).

What's also never mentioned is Quality of Life. if you're 80 years old are you able to walk, garden, sing without issues or do you need pills, surgery, machines and are less physically able? Those people who historically would die in their 50's, but are now living past their 60's mostly fall under the 2nd category. They are dependant on others for survival which can/is straining nations, look at Japan now vs 100 years ago. But most importantly, their life sucks because their health has deteriorated. Most of these illnesses are from bad diets, pollution, and lack of exercise. Yet we're told "oh it's your genes, this is all natural, you're just unlucky." > bullshit intellectual laziness from the supposed smart guys.

Tl;Dr : Drugs and surgery should be a last resort, not the primary treatment in medicine.
 
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N

Nifi

Member
Mar 7, 2019
32
I had some diazepam to soften the adjustment period when i started sertraline. It worked so well didnt need the diaz once ADs kicked in.
I'm on this site because of sertraline... antidepressants can be really dangerous. I wouldn't suggest it. If i didn't take the ssri i would have been in a better place right now. It's nasty stuff and not worth the risk
 
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Jolene40

Specialist
Oct 6, 2018
370
I'm on this site because of sertraline... antidepressants can be really dangerous. I wouldn't suggest it. If i didn't take the ssri i would have been in a better place right now. It's nasty stuff and not worth the risk

Thats awful to hear. I can believe they can cause their own harm. It helped me, i have to be honest about that. It helped massively when i was 28 and took them.
Its a tough one as its a risk not knowing who will react badly. Now i couldn't do more than one day on them as my body reacts badly.
 
Divine Trinity

Divine Trinity

Pugna Vigil
Mar 20, 2019
310
The majority of products & services in this world are snake oil. As an example, I'm guessing a lot of people suffering migrants are just not getting the exercise or vitamins needed and or are suffering from an unhealthy life in general. Similar to people labeled as depressed its going to be the life events that were unfavourable and they just needed the events they didn't have happen; that wouldn't have resulted in the person fitting the diagnosis.

Big pharma is 99% in it for the money because life can be enjoyable without some high moral purpose. The people who seek a moral purpose field for their life are either already miserable or suffering something related to why they want to go into the field. On the other hand, the majority entering the field just wants enough money and to enjoy off time from work.
If you want to be educated in a certain field, don't go to school for it. (w. some exceptions)

It's not that drugs don't work properly, it's that they're incapable of addressing the underlying cause (in most cases). If you've just given birth and feeling depressed for a while, sure maybe some dope (and a bag full of money) will work because the underlying cause is hormonal imbalances from giving birth. But if you're depressed, and have been isolated and abused by people around you, sure the drug will stop you from "feeling" depressed but it can't stop you from being depressed. Then the body builds a tolerance to it and you're able to feel again, which at that point you're no longer used to coping with that stress and the depression worsens than before you took the damn stuff. Then the Dr. decides to up your dosage because clearly the problem is your brain, not the environment you're reacting to.
 
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BandAddict

BandAddict

Specialist
Apr 3, 2019
338
Just a little humor here: I remember seeing a commercial about Cymbalta, and it was a decent length. Damn thing spent most of the time describing horrible and life-threatening side effects. Terrified me as a young kid haha
 
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A

Alan James

Arcanist
Apr 11, 2019
408
Most of these medicines (especially antidepressants) are legalized drugs. Like barbiturates (N fot example), they used to be sold in pharmacies and were prescribed by doctors everywhere, they advertised and now this is highly restricted drugs (and most people call them "drugs").
 
N

Nifi

Member
Mar 7, 2019
32
Thats awful to hear. I can believe they can cause their own harm. It helped me, i have to be honest about that. It helped massively when i was 28 and took them.
Its a tough one as its a risk not knowing who will react badly. Now i couldn't do more than one day on them as my body reacts badly.
I got pssd from it... my whole body is a mess and i'm emotional numb. It's annoying. I want to live so bad but this condition is just unbearable. Guys please do your research before using meds, they can be life destroying.
 
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J

Jolene40

Specialist
Oct 6, 2018
370
I got pssd from it... my whole body is a mess and i'm emotional numb. It's annoying. I want to live so bad but this condition is just unbearable. Guys please do your research before using meds, they can be life destroying.

Ah i have read your posts. I really hope over time it will resolve or improve for you.
I hope for a day we can legitimately test meds against our genetic make up to know for sure what it could do to us. I dont understand why it was great first time but years down the line my body wont tolerate it at all
One thing i get so angry with is when a medical professional refers to 'chemical imbalance' and how ADs help redress that. There is absolutely no scientific evidence at all to demonstrate 1. Chemical imbalance in the brain! 2. The way in which ADs change or redress this 'imbalance'. I have never found a single article or paper at all on it - e.g physiological evidence of chemicals involved and this 'imbalance' at a proven measurable physiological level! Yet people over the world are continually sold this chemical balance nonsense.

I understand there is a problem with seretonin or dopamine ( im no expert here) yet this imbalance shit doesn't really ring entirely true in all cases for me. I wonder how traumatic experiences alter cgemical balances or do they even? I blame systemic inflammation on my anxiety and depression. I have had trauma in my life ( who hasnt) but my worst depression came when my autoimmune diseases were in full swing. It was 100% not reactionary either.

Bit of a rant and always happy to stand corrected on the chemical imbalance thing. Always trying not to be too dogmatic
 
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JadedGray

JadedGray

Life Eternal
Jul 24, 2018
991
Most are more poisonous than medicinal and cause more symptoms than they are supposed to treat. The biggest mistake I ever made was having complete trust in doctors and thinking that prescriptions were a magical cure.
 
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D

Donewith_

Elementalist
Sep 28, 2018
876
W

What difference? You have a chronic illness/disability, take drugs to feel normal, feel bad/health declines if you stop. What difference, as far as medical treatment, is that from prescribing meth to a meth addict?

Take our medical institutions, add in some consumerism, with a dash of unhealthy/unsustainable lifestyles and you get artificial addiction. Where external forces, rather than internal, force you into a perpetual cycle of consumption or death. You are not given an alternative.

Artificial addiction is different from natural addiction in that no temporary pleasure is ever gained from most of these drugs, it's a perpetual cycle of agony until you either die from your illness, go bankrupt (in US), or die from the side effects.

A bs trick used by some people in various fields to support their narrative is they'll say how Average Life Span has been increasing (well it's not in the US). What they leave out is that it's not because adults are healthier and living longer than before, that's marginal, it's mainly because infant mortality has declined in the last 100-200 years. What the biggest cause of infant mortality? Infectious disease, which is easily prevented with modest sanitation practices, followed by malnutrition. When those problems are solved the population's avg lifespan naturally increases because the lowest quartile is increased (ie people die at 40 instead of 6 months).

What's also never mentioned is Quality of Life. if you're 80 years old are you able to walk, garden, sing without issues or do you need pills, surgery, machines and are less physically able? Those people who historically would die in their 50's, but are now living past their 60's mostly fall under the 2nd category. They are dependant on others for survival which can/is straining nations, look at Japan now vs 100 years ago. But most importantly, their life sucks because their health has deteriorated. Most of these illnesses are from bad diets, pollution, and lack of exercise. Yet we're told "oh it's your genes, this is all natural, you're just unlucky." > bullshit intellectual laziness from the supposed smart guys.

Tl;Dr : Drugs and surgery should be a last resort, not the primary treatment in medicine.
lets take it the way you said.. if a person has a terminal illness, their pain can be made bearable with some of these meds.. and its also true that their suffering is getting increased because of them too.. but it depends on the perspective how you see it.if you say quality of life is better over the number of years, that holds true. but, some people want to hang on here for long , may be because of fear of the death or 'whats comes after' so they might not see these meds as that harmful.. i think this is completely different from the case of a drug addict, the basic thing is drug addiction can be avoided, and a illness can't be .

some prefer quality of life over quantity. but some people just want to live long. thats their choice.. a thing which appears painful to a person might appear the same way to another person.
 
MLongshaw

MLongshaw

Student
Aug 5, 2018
129
Pharmaceutical companies would not benefit from selling drugs that heal or that are used for CTB. They want you to remain sick so they can keep taking your money. I know this is an oversimplification, but it's mostly true.
Well said, a customer completely cured is a customer lost. Sad world we live in.
 
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Divine Trinity

Divine Trinity

Pugna Vigil
Mar 20, 2019
310
lets take it the way you said.. if a person has a terminal illness, their pain can be made bearable with some of these meds.. and its also true that their suffering is getting increased because of them too.. but it depends on the perspective how you see it.if you say quality of life is better over the number of years, that holds true. but, some people want to hang on here for long , may be because of fear of the death or 'whats comes after' so they might not see these meds as that harmful.. i think this is completely different from the case of a drug addict, the basic thing is drug addiction can be avoided, and a illness can't be .

some prefer quality of life over quantity. but some people just want to live long. thats their choice.. a thing which appears painful to a person might appear the same way to another person.

You say that as if people are given that choice, on a suicide forum of all places.

As far as ilness not being preventable:

"With non-communicable conditions accounting for nearly two-thirds of deaths worldwide, the emergence of chronic diseases as the predominant challenge to global health is undisputed. In the USA, chronic diseases are the main causes of poor health, disability, and death, and account for most of health-care expenditures. The chronic disease burden in the USA largely results from a short list of risk factors--including tobacco use, poor diet and physical inactivity (both strongly associated with obesity), excessive alcohol consumption, uncontrolled high blood pressure, and hyperlipidaemia--that can be effectively addressed for individuals and populations." -National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA, USA.

QoL Health-wise, I said the exact opposite, it's been declining. We've traded famine and infections for chronic disease and malnutrition, you can argue whether having cancer is better than starving or polio, I think that's beside the point.

People are turn to addiction when there are no other alternatives available to them, and when those substances fail as primary coping mechanisms (the same class of drugs on the streets or in Dr. offices) they turn to violence or suicide.

You're essentially saying we can't measure QoL and it's all subjective/depends on the individual. I think that's bs and any public health statistic debunks that assertion.
Ah i have read your posts. I really hope over time it will resolve or improve for you.
I hope for a day we can legitimately test meds against our genetic make up to know for sure what it could do to us. I dont understand why it was great first time but years down the line my body wont tolerate it at all
One thing i get so angry with is when a medical professional refers to 'chemical imbalance' and how ADs help redress that. There is absolutely no scientific evidence at all to demonstrate 1. Chemical imbalance in the brain! 2. The way in which ADs change or redress this 'imbalance'. I have never found a single article or paper at all on it - e.g physiological evidence of chemicals involved and this 'imbalance' at a proven measurable physiological level! Yet people over the world are continually sold this chemical balance nonsense.

I understand there is a problem with seretonin or dopamine ( im no expert here) yet this imbalance shit doesn't really ring entirely true in all cases for me. I wonder how traumatic experiences alter cgemical balances or do they even? I blame systemic inflammation on my anxiety and depression. I have had trauma in my life ( who hasnt) but my worst depression came when my autoimmune diseases were in full swing. It was 100% not reactionary either.

Bit of a rant and always happy to stand corrected on the chemical imbalance thing. Always trying not to be too dogmatic
In a civilized society, institutions have to prove the safety and effectiveness of treatments or drugs before exposing it to the public. You're not wrong to be skeptical of the "Chemical Imbalance" hypothesis, and there's no evidence supporting it.

Scientist can't explain with certainty why even the most basic [intelligent] lifeforms make a decision in any given circumstance, which have about 100 or so neurons, humans have billions yet we're supposed to believe they know what they're doing as they bombard millions of people's (and children) brains with mystery pills...

Lobotomies were standard practice less than a 80 years ago...
 
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D

Donewith_

Elementalist
Sep 28, 2018
876
You say that as if people are given that choice, on a suicide forum of all places.

As far as ilness not being preventable:

"With non-communicable conditions accounting for nearly two-thirds of deaths worldwide, the emergence of chronic diseases as the predominant challenge to global health is undisputed. In the USA, chronic diseases are the main causes of poor health, disability, and death, and account for most of health-care expenditures. The chronic disease burden in the USA largely results from a short list of risk factors--including tobacco use, poor diet and physical inactivity (both strongly associated with obesity), excessive alcohol consumption, uncontrolled high blood pressure, and hyperlipidaemia--that can be effectively addressed for individuals and populations." -National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA, USA.

QoL Health-wise, I said the exact opposite, it's been declining. We've traded famine and infections for chronic disease and malnutrition, you can argue whether having cancer is better than starving or polio, I think that's beside the point.

People are turn to addiction when there are no other alternatives available to them, and when those substances fail as primary coping mechanisms (the same class of drugs on the streets or in Dr. offices) they turn to violence or suicide.

You're essentially saying we can't measure QoL and it's all subjective/depends on the individual. I think that's bs and any public health statistic debunks that assertion.

In a civilized society, institutions have to prove the safety and effectiveness of treatments or drugs before exposing it to the public. You're not wrong to be skeptical of the "Chemical Imbalance" hypothesis, and there's no evidence supporting it.

Scientist can't explain with certainty why even the most basic [intelligent] lifeforms make a decision in any given circumstance, which have about 100 or so neurons, humans have billions yet we're supposed to believe they know what they're doing as they bombard millions of people's (and children) brains with mystery pills...

Lobotomies were standard practice less than a 80 years ago...

Am i missing something? all i'm saying is .. though these meds are responsible for increasing suffering in some individuals, but they are helping a lot of people to go through another day. Thinking meds should be banned only because of the reason they are harming some doesn't make sense to me.

and i am not going to fight just because a person at the other end of the world is having a opinion different to mine.
you have your opinions and I've mine.
 
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S

spanishguy22

Enlightened
Apr 9, 2019
1,003
Ah i have read your posts. I really hope over time it will resolve or improve for you.
I hope for a day we can legitimately test meds against our genetic make up to know for sure what it could do to us. I dont understand why it was great first time but years down the line my body wont tolerate it at all
One thing i get so angry with is when a medical professional refers to 'chemical imbalance' and how ADs help redress that. There is absolutely no scientific evidence at all to demonstrate 1. Chemical imbalance in the brain! 2. The way in which ADs change or redress this 'imbalance'. I have never found a single article or paper at all on it - e.g physiological evidence of chemicals involved and this 'imbalance' at a proven measurable physiological level! Yet people over the world are continually sold this chemical balance nonsense.

I understand there is a problem with seretonin or dopamine ( im no expert here) yet this imbalance shit doesn't really ring entirely true in all cases for me. I wonder how traumatic experiences alter cgemical balances or do they even? I blame systemic inflammation on my anxiety and depression. I have had trauma in my life ( who hasnt) but my worst depression came when my autoimmune diseases were in full swing. It was 100% not reactionary either.

Bit of a rant and always happy to stand corrected on the chemical imbalance thing. Always trying not to be too dogmatic

Agreed Antidepressants are a bandaid that works on symptoms to the degree they can (by upregulation of monoamines)
But the problem of depression is much more complex. The lowered monoamines are just a symptom of the change in brain structure, neuronal cell death, synapse density, etc that depression causes. That's why no severely depressed person ever will feel happy in a normal way with antidepressants. They'll feel better but that's it.
 
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Divine Trinity

Divine Trinity

Pugna Vigil
Mar 20, 2019
310
Am i missing something? all i'm saying is .. though these meds are responsible for increasing suffering in some individuals, but they are helping a lot of people to go through another day. Thinking meds should be banned only because of the reason they are harming some doesn't make sense to me.

and i am not going to fight just because a person at the other end of the world is having a opinion different to mine.
you have your opinions and I've mine.
Nobody said a word about banning anything. I encourage people to research these things. You gloss over the negative effects SSRIs have, and greatly exaggerate the temporary benefits people may recieve from it.

If you like them go for it, I wouldn't feed it to a dog. Bottom line is suicide rates are going up, depression trends up, Pharma profits are up, and accidental ODs are up.
 
GeorgeJL

GeorgeJL

Enlightened
Mar 7, 2019
1,621
It sometimes surprises me how many medications exist and almost all of them are useless crap: they do not heal, they have many side effects, can be addictive, you can't successfully use them for CTB (unless accidentally), they can accumulate in the body and they are harmful to health.

All drugs from which you can CTB very throughly removed and prohibited. Every day someone asks if this or that medicine will help to CTB and all of it will not help

And these drugs can give you against your will in hospitals and then take money for it. And even if taking these medicines will harm your health you will not be able to return the money. Drug cartels never even dreamed of such income as those what have pharmacological corporations.
Amitriptyline is one of the last medications that can be used to CTB that is still prescribed relatively easily. To make it peaceful though one needs to add a benzo or two.

Also doctors are finding that using ketamine a psychedelic can treat drug-resistant depression. So give that a shot.