That would be a bit of a stretch since I'll be exiting myself very soon. Honestly, where on earth did you drag that argument from?
That would be a bit of a stretch since I'll be exiting myself very soon. Honestly, where on earth did you drag that argument from?
anonbpdgirl
Student
- Aug 31, 2019
- 111
That's not the impression I wanted to give at all! I do not believe money makes happiness. Just that it makes things easier in terms of accessibility of buying products to CTB. However, it doesn't change your SI. Your SI don't give a damn if you got money in the bank or not.
Thank you.
Everyone thinks differently, but everyone needs a bit of company in their thoughts. That was the purpose of my post. Not to starting some political and philosophical argumentative debate lol. Thanks for getting it.
Dawn0071111
Hungry Ghost
- Dec 9, 2018
- 570
Yupď
Yup. Robin Williams, Kate Spade, Amy Winehouse. All gifted , talented, rich...
Baskol1
No life, no problems
- Aug 11, 2019
- 1,030
Yes, rich but not happy. Because money is important, yes, no doubt about it, but its not everything
RainAndSadness
Administrator
- Jun 12, 2018
- 2,143
What the hell? We are all here because life actually is unfair. Capitalism it the most unfair system in place. It's a competitive system and if you can't compete, you're done. Finished. You're the bottom of society. And people that were born with mental or physical disabilities are completely taken out of the race because in many cases, they simply can't compete. Do you think I want to live in poverty? No. But I can't work due to severe mental illness. And I am currently applying for disability insurance, which means I will have a little bit more money than before... if I get accepted. But your attitude is very toxic. You pretend like we can all achieve wealth just by trying. No, this isn't true.
Please tell me, what fair and just circumstances led you to this place? Did you register in a suicide-themed forum because life is fair and handed everything to you? I don't think so, right? If you had a good life, you probably wouldn't be here. So what's the deal with you attacking struggling people who are clearly exploited by this abusive system?
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BipolarExpat
Accomplished faker
- May 30, 2019
- 698
And Ohhhh how that list goes on and on...
List of suicides in the 21st century - Wikipedia
Too bad more (any?) of them weren't more vocal about their right to die.
You'd think some or many of the rich and famous ctbers had strong positions on the issues of poor psych care (options), risk of being sectioned, etc. vs their own rights to choose.
That's a shame as they have/had a better chance of reforming this landscape than a lot of us, I'd guess.
They were (like many of us) in just too much pain I suppose... with many of the same concerns (family finding out, being stopped, etc.)
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Politics. I thought this was about ctb. Oh well..
Re Capitalism, it's your opinion. We could dance around for weeks on that. But the greatest irony is that I am working class poor by birth, Labour by vote and socialist by leaning, and far from rich. I worked my arse off to get where I wanted to be and that's hardly Mr Rich. I hate US style capitalism with a passion, and clearly old style socialism doesn't work either. I've never been a money money money person, and always put job satisfaction and society first.
BUT that doesn't mean I can suffer hysterical whingers who harp on about how unfair life is without asking themselves what they did to make life better!
Hey, we had coats on our beds as kids and shared shoes! Hardly 'handed everything'. I'm not an entitled millennial. And as for your plain daft statement about 'exploited by this abusive system', I suppose it depends which country's system you have in mind. The UK's no paradise but if you compare opportunities now with what I faced when I was young there's no contest. You can do far more today than we ever could back in the old days.
I'm not 'attacking struggling people', I'm rejecting lack of responsibility and excessive drama queening.
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RainAndSadness
Administrator
- Jun 12, 2018
- 2,143
The whole forum consists of whining, in case you didn't notice. That's the whole purpose of this forum. Marginalized, ignored and silenced people talk about their struggles. Economic struggles are a part of this. I really don't get the intention behind your post. To me it looks like mocking.
I'm not going to respond to your other parts of the post because I don't think this forum is a competition. If you think you had it worse than others, alright. If you think millenials are entitled, alright. Whatever you say. That doesn't mean you have a right to talk down to someone who - in your opinion - doesn't have a valid struggle. The person who created this thread obviously is going through economic struggles, and that's totally valid.
Dawn0071111
Hungry Ghost
- Dec 9, 2018
- 570
Dude, "life is so unfair" could be a catagory of its own on SS! Does this perspective come as a surprise to you on a forum with people with depression, mental illness, heartbreak, and all sorts of mental & emotional states that would promote this perspective? I know you said you see it a lot & may just be your own personal pet peev... but it just seems to me that by the time a person hits a suicide forum, attempts to encourage this type of self reflection that says to stop having a victim mentality, even if you do have a point, probably wont be embraced, cause while we may not agree with what people say, usually its the pain or frustration underneath thier words that needs empathzing with... but yeah I just see the victim thing to come with the territory... not nesesarrily right or wrong, but if the woe-is-me thing is a trigger... I figure one would be annonyed a lot on a forum like this?
I love our members who interpret the function of this site to suit their own agenda.
Ha ha, way to twist an issue. It was ME pulling up the SS tendency to whinge and play victim. MY response was to your inference that I was somehow born with a silver spoon in my mouth.
I give up. Whinge, whine and victim away. No self-responsibility needed...
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Dawn0071111
Hungry Ghost
- Dec 9, 2018
- 570
I think it could be interpreted as an attack, but that is not set in stone. I did not see it that way, it like almost everything is a matter of perception. I heard the OP saying basically that they wished they had the opportunity to have the kind of money for thier life, that they see others spend on their CTB method. I can see how its percieved as an attack, but I just saw a person who survives eating dirt looking at people eating steal, and wishes they could have steak too... Of course the natural response would be.. " well get your ass up and work and then you can have steak too you lazy ass.." lol. We have no way of knowing by this post if the person has ever engaged in self reflection... it just didn't appear evident in this post. I dunno, I get your point, its your pet peev..... but SS is a place of DESPAIR and irrationality anyway due to the nature of why we are all here... not that everyone will be victim minded, irrational, but maybe today your tolerance just gave way?
RainAndSadness
Administrator
- Jun 12, 2018
- 2,143
I never implied that you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth. I made the case that you have your valid reasons to be in this forum but so do others. I clearly said you wouldn't be here without serious struggles, you can check that for yourself if you read my first response. And I simply ask you to respect the struggles of other people too. This isn't about an "agenda", it's obvious to me that a forum with mostly suicidal people has a large amount of venting threads. Which makes sense to me because suicidal people tend to be frustrated with life, which is the reason why they want to ctb. So again, no clue what you're trying to achieve here but it's certainly not helpful to the thread creator.
Dawn0071111
Hungry Ghost
- Dec 9, 2018
- 570
I have a qurstion for you JWL... if you haven't thrown up your hands on this thread..would you be willing to share how the concept of self-responsibility and your percived lack of it is impacting people in a neagative way? It seems that you are saying that this perspective would be more beneficial to others in some way...
You dot have to give up, but I think some of us need to understand the core of what you are trying to get accross.... i feel like your saying people are ignoring something important or something of that effect? I think there is more to it than "oh those victim mentality people annoy me...." its just kinda hard to hear you thru your frustration at us "victims."
I take your point about the 'despair'. I'm a man and tend toward keeping the stiff upper lip and getting on with it. I'm sure I feel most or many of the things you all feel here (or else I wouldn't be here), but I don't whine about it. I try to take responsibility. Where I am now is not ALL my fault, but on balance my decisions brought me here so it's down to me.
About tolerance 'today', no, I find it hard to tolerate these things in general.
ralphnol
Member
- Aug 25, 2019
- 61
Thank you. Sorry to seem like stealing your thunder there. Also agree with your points about money. Its not even about the money. The thing is, this society doesnt even make sense WITH money... nothing is worth anything anymore (otherwise trying to help people/animals with pain/needs).
I'll try to be concise.
Personal responsibility is central to my beliefs. If something's wrong in my life the first place I look for answers is to me. Did I make a wrong choice or decision somewhere? Did I do something to give the wrong impression to someone who cuts me off? Is it 50-50? Did I contribute to an event that came back negatively to me? Could I/should I have done things differently?
My starting point is ME. Only then will I start looking at things possibley outside my control for answers to something negative in my life.
That's the most concise I can do.
And this is why I react strongly against people who launch into 'the world is against me', dramas without imagining they might actually have some part in their situation.
Good grief, what does that even mean??
I was in animal rescue for many years in my youth and believe me there wasn't much you could do for the animals without money, but a hell of a lot you could do with money.
Meaningless slick cliches are self-serving and serve no one else.
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Dawn0071111
Hungry Ghost
- Dec 9, 2018
- 570
I totally get that. I too before I got here determined that I would not be one of those people who blamed thier bad childhood for everything. That I was grown up, that I was where I was due to the sum total of choices I had made.... No more blaming. Then, yhe trauma of last summer. The Aftermath Syndrome, the Epic depression, the suicide attempt...Now I have PTSD.... And it all came crashing in. I am both victim but I also know what role I played too. But the crazy thing is my answer to self-reflecting and being responsible for my actions and thier consequences is to CTB! Denial sometimes is a persons last defense against suicide.... for those who are on the fence. I try to take responsibility too, but for some of us, the infrastructure of our own emotional constitution cannot bear the weight of that kind of self reflection, it is a part of the disease itself. This is true a cluster b/personality disorders... So even self-responsibility can't be helpful for everyone at all times unfortunately..... But yeah I hear you, your a strong man with your values... and its got to be hard when values like disciplne, self responsiblility, endurance, self control... come up against despair, hoplessness, pain, depresssion.. it can be a conflicting mess... everyones view is valid under duress imo. You never have to embrace the victim mentality thing, I just hope maybe you can see that that itself is part of the despair, mental ilness, coping mechanism, etc. Its hard because no one likes feeling blamed.... or attacked... we are all sick, hurting people on SS doing the best we can including you.
"Did you register in a suicide-themed forum because life is fair and handed everything to you?"
Your words...
@JWL are you getting anything out of this? You seem to be determined to lecture down to people and convince them they aren't being "responsible" and doing it right. But it seems rooted in you feeling attacked because you aren't poor and that since "you aren't responsible for your pain" that anyone else who you think IS should shut up and stop complaining. Do you have no empathy for those who ARE poor? Do you think creating all your problems means you deserve to be here? I didn't used to be poor, now I am because of medical things...none my fault. And you know what? Someone who blew it all shopping or on drugs is no less of a human being in need than you or I. I am no more valid or properly suffering.
I'm having bad bad days and it takes effort not to be reactive...and I fail at times...see my recent diddy for an example...but your objective seems to be to hold yourself up as some example of proper financial success and responsibility while invalidating anyone who has fallen in a way you deem inapprorpiate. That's not cool and only serves to make YOU feel superior and your pain more valid than theirs. We are better than that. Attack systems...attack ideas...but don't attack people drowning next to you.
I'm having bad bad days and it takes effort not to be reactive...and I fail at times...see my recent diddy for an example...but your objective seems to be to hold yourself up as some example of proper financial success and responsibility while invalidating anyone who has fallen in a way you deem inapprorpiate. That's not cool and only serves to make YOU feel superior and your pain more valid than theirs. We are better than that. Attack systems...attack ideas...but don't attack people drowning next to you.
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Dawn0071111
Hungry Ghost
- Dec 9, 2018
- 570
I get it. I think some here over-do it... and crush themselves with guilt and other avoid looking at self and blame the world, other vacillate between the two... i think its great you said personal.responsibility reflects your beliefs... we all have our own belifs don't we? I think we look at a person who doesn't seemto be sufficienctly looking at thier own part ..because we are on the outside. I think if we could focus on or investigate first WHY a person is lacking that self reflection without assuming we know why, better headway could be made. The starting point may be you.. for you. But is there any way to prove this is the superior method all the time for all people?
"So even self-responsibility can't be helpful for everyone at all times unfortunately....."
That's a very well-made point and I concede to it. I over-generalised (although I'd never say we never have responsibility for our actions...).
Some of you truly have suffered traums of the kind you mention above and I did once state that I recognised that as a separate issue. I should have and should reiterate that now. In my case, some neg things were out of my control from birth, but many were the result of my own poor decisions and actions. I take responsibility for those. The others I stick my middle finger up at, lol.
It's my opinion. If you want to call it a lecture down it's your choice.
Where did I say I wasn't poor? I don't think you're reading the posts carefully enough.
And lol, I am NO one's example of financial success.
I did attack the ideas.
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You essentially said, "life is unfair, etc., but what have you done about it?". The underlying basis of that can and has been used against the majority of people who wish to CTB. Or perhaps people claiming those who wish to CTB want "the easy way out" are just a part of my imagination. Let's play that game. Why CTB? We are all going to die anyway. Why not learn how to cope with our situations? I'm hoping you see where this goes...
Maybe that's because there just might be something in it? A question of degree for sure, but not one to deny absolutely.
Actually, no.
RainAndSadness
Administrator
- Jun 12, 2018
- 2,143
Wow, you're nasty. Here is the full quote:
You're so full of shit and obviously you don't want to learn anything from this place. That's literally disgusting, taking my words out of context and quoting half of my point.
Tom9999
I've suffered enough.
- Aug 27, 2019
- 124
Not nasty at all. Just honest. Or trying to be.
And yes, I did misread your text, so you have my apologies. It's not about 'winning' for me. Just being honest.
