Is there anything someone can do to hurt you that you feel makes it where killing themselves is deserved?

[TheLastGreySky]

Is there anything someone can do to hurt you that you feel makes it where killing themselves is deserved?

So, I don't really know how to begin this, but basically I want to throw out a philosophical question, lets say you have an ex spouse, and your ex wife or husband was emotionally abusive towards you and controlling as well, and at times they were physically abusive towards you so you left them. Lets say that even she or he was verbally abusive to your kids (both of your children) years ago, but your ex finally got help and after being bothered for years by that partner attempt to visit the children, you eventually find out that He or she is planning to commit suicide at the end of the year,

Would you treat them like a human and give them the benefit of the doubt,
or do you let them do it?

For background purposes,
The reasoning behind the suicide is a combination of the guilt and disgust of who they used to be, and the ache of not being in their children's lives. And for the sake of the argument,
lets say you know without a doubt that they're 100% serious about doing it.
You know they bought the supplies and have a date and time set, etc.

Is there any way in your heart that you can forgive someone you spent years of your life with
just so they can have at least one day with their children and your children with him or her,
or is atonement through suicide the ONLY way you'll personally heal?

I want everyone's opinions here.
I know that philosophical suicide isn't something really discussed often,
But, I want to know what you personally would do.

 

[Abyssal]

People tend to have a very egocentric view of existence, but I feel my life is basically pointless. Not in a woe was me way, in a nihilistic way. Nothing that could ever happen to me is deserving of forcing someone to endure the agony of wishing themselves dead.

So, no.

 

[Morte]

i would let her die

 

[hellispink]

I dont gain absolutely nothing from another person leaving. My hell here wont go anywhere and that wont make me a better nicer person either. I would let her see the kids. I would point for professional help or suggest she gets help if she wants to. After that if she decides to keep going i would respect her decision but not out of hate or me wanting her to leave or suffer. I dont wish suicide on nobody w should be able to leave with dignity i dont want anyone feeling this horrible pain i am feeling . Doesnt matter the past or what she did it wont change anything

 

[loopdaloop]

100% wouldn't interfere in their ctb plans without any grain of hesitation. It's a win-win situation when the suffering the person causes to their enviroment will cease simultaneously with their own suffering.

Would you treat them like a human and give them the benefit of the doubt,
or do you let them do it?

The phrasing here is a bit odd (ig this is where our beliefs diverge) because letting someone commit suicide is not contrary to treating them like a human. There's no other living organism that is capable of commiting suicide other than humans.

 

[TheLastGreySky]

People tend to have a very egocentric view of existence, but I feel my life is basically pointless. Not in a woe was me way, in a nihilistic way. Nothing that could ever happen to me is deserving of forcing someone to endure the agony of wishing themselves dead.

So, no.

And honestly, I wouldn't wish this feeling on anyone. No one deserves this living hell regardless of what they've done, but well at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite I think I do deserve to die in the brutalist way possible.

100% wouldn't interfere in their ctb plans without any grain of hesitation. It's a win-win situation when the suffering the person causes to their enviroment will cease simultaneously with their own suffering.

The phrasing here is a bit odd (ig this is where our beliefs diverge) because letting someone commit suicide is not contrary to treating them like a human. There's no other living organism that is capable of commiting suicide other than humans.

I see it like this, the person in question deserves the benefit of the doubt. Years have passed. And I would see where you were coming from if this person was still abusive but in this scenario they aren't. However, I respect your opinion. As I said to Abyssal, I wouldn't wish the way I feel on anyone. I would 100% cut off one of my legs if it meant that I could ether move forward or get a second chance personally, and I seriously mean that. I would do it liveeee. No joke.

 

[DoubleUp8]

Lemmings commit suicide. They are not human
For loop who said only humans commit suicide and we have no way of knowing that an animal in the wild never committed suicide if it's not witnessed and documented by humans
Cats often isolate themselves when they think they're going to die
Cats often isolate themselves when they think they're going to die

 

[Orbitc]

I am very vindictive - I would really like everyone who offended me to suffer the same way I suffer. I would like for it to drive them so crazy that they could no longer live. I don't like feeling like a victim - I want them to become victims in all these situations. You cannot forgive - because when you forgive someone and do not punish, do not take revenge on him, then this person will then be more confident in causing harm to others. And if you make him pay dearly, then he will think about whether it is worth harming someone because then he can get punished.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Depends on whether you still have any kind of feelings for the person and whether you think their children might benefit from their input at some point. Depends on whether you are convinced that they have changed.

Put it this way- if someone who I believe was abusive towards me in the past was considering CTB- would I intervene? Probably not. I haven't had anything to do with them for over 20 years. They have zero connections to my life and personally- I would feel doubtful as to whether they even could change. I don't think I would ever trust them enough.

Ultimately- suicide is a personal decision. I don't think we should expect anyone else to 'save' us. Of course- we shouldn't be treated badly but- someone who has been that abusive and violent shouldn't really expect to be forgiven and let back into people's lives easily. Their ex partner is (rightly) protecting themselves and their children. If they have truly become a better person- they ought to understand that.

I can see why they would want to CTB but ultimately- it's going to depend on whether they can be trusted as to whether their ex forgives them and lets them back into all their lives.

Of course- threatening suicide is an extremely manipulative way of emotionally blackmailing someone into doing something. So- if they were manipulative in the relationship- I'd also be pretty wary of that. Not to say they won't do it of course but just consider- someone that wracked with guilt and shame maybe wouldn't create worry and guilt in their family by letting it be known they were considering suicide if their wishes weren't met. Surely- someone who felt that bad about their previous behaviour would be trying not to create more pain. If they were going to CTB- I'd say- the actions of someone who truly cares about their family would be rather to quietly disappear and do it. Surely- if they have become this better person- they wouldn't want you feeling responsible for their death?

 

[TheLastGreySky]

I am very vindictive - I would really like everyone who offended me to suffer the same way I suffer. I would like for it to drive them so crazy that they could no longer live. I don't like feeling like a victim - I want them to become victims in all these situations. You cannot forgive - because when you forgive someone and do not punish, do not take revenge on him, then this person will then be more confident in causing harm to others. And if you make him pay dearly, then he will think about whether it is worth harming someone because then he can get punished.

I like that you said that, I honestly used to think that way. And the only reason I can say that I no longer think like that is because, I realized that by holding a grudge and letting rage consume me I was... keeping myself in a constant cycle of pain. I get where your coming from, and in a lot of ways I agree with you. However, I personally think (for you, not in general) that if you're ever in that sort of situation that you should stop... not for the person who hurt you, but for yourself.

My brother was really terrible to me, and before he was murdered I actually believed that I would dance on his grave. But when I saw the police footage it broke me.
Here was my oppressor, now a scared child convulsing from a bullet in his face and police dragging him like a rag doll and shouting at his "corpse" as they cuffed him. I realized shortly after that - that we're all a bunch of fucking idiots who are only able to see our perspective until we come to a "Damascus road". We only fool ourselves into the illusion of control. And, I'm telling you this because when my brother died... I still hated him, but now I hated myself more for not letting go of all the pain I let drown me. I LET my feelings hold me down. I WASN'T strong enough to shake off the trauma, and although I do not think anyone should hurt anyone else...
If there's one thing I want to be able to say about myself, it's I will never let anyone rob me of my compassion again. I am the captain of this sinking ship.
And though it might not mean much, at least I can distinguish between who I am, and who I'm not, and I'm not my brother, and I'm not someone who's going to continue the cycle of abuse and hate. And part of that for me at least, meant I had to forgive him, so I could get a hold of myself.

No one's going to save you but yourself, and yes; that's a choice.
But I hope that you believe in yourself that you're capable of saving yourself IF you choose to.
I'm going to sum up what I'm trying to say as clearly as I can (in my craziness)
" You can choose to acknowledge the beauty in your scars, or you can chose to live with weeping wounds that will not heal. It's up to you."
And if we both fall asleep and never wake up, then I hope I get to met you or someone strong like you in another life.

Depends on whether you still have any kind of feelings for the person and whether you think their children might benefit from their input at some point. Depends on whether you are convinced that they have changed.

Put it this way- if someone who I believe was abusive towards me in the past was considering CTB- would I intervene? Probably not. I haven't had anything to do with them for over 20 years. They have zero connections to my life and personally- I would feel doubtful as to whether they even could change. I don't think I would ever trust them enough.

Ultimately- suicide is a personal decision. I don't think we should expect anyone else to 'save' us. Of course- we shouldn't be treated badly but- someone who has been that abusive and violent shouldn't really expect to be forgiven and let back into people's lives easily. Their ex partner is (rightly) protecting themselves and their children. If they have truly become a better person- they ought to understand that.

I can see why they would want to CTB but ultimately- it's going to depend on whether they can be trusted as to whether their ex forgives them and lets them back into all their lives.

Of course- threatening suicide is an extremely manipulative way of emotionally blackmailing someone into doing something. So- if they were manipulative in the relationship- I'd also be pretty wary of that. Not to say they won't do it of course but just consider- someone that wracked with guilt and shame maybe wouldn't create worry and guilt in their family by letting it be known they were considering suicide if their wishes weren't met. Surely- someone who felt that bad about their previous behaviour would be trying not to create more pain. If they were going to CTB- I'd say- the actions of someone who truly cares about their family would be rather to quietly disappear and do it. Surely- if they have become this better person- they wouldn't want you feeling responsible for their death?

"- I'd say- the actions of someone who truly cares about their family would be rather to quietly disappear and do it. Surely- if they have become this better person- they wouldn't want you feeling responsible for their death?"
^ That's a literal fallacy. And I gave the guidelines that it would 100% clear that the person is serious and has changed.
The point of this question is if trust can be established... can redemption be achievable?
And if you say it can't, then is that out of hate or apathy or, out of a fear of being hurt again?
Are we really fixed in our perspective, or can we change our minds and accept new information?
Sometimes I question if free will even exists, or if we only have the illusion of choice that's determined by our biochemistry.
And I am also really curious if Survival Instincts potentially cloud our judgement.

 

[maidens]

My father abused me all my life and shows no signs of "changing",,,, I want him to CTB. I will be happy when he dies, genuinely

 

[TheLastGreySky]

My father abused me all my life and shows no signs of "changing",,,, I want him to CTB. I will be happy when he dies, genuinely

That's understandable, but so let me tell you something, when he passes away no matter how much you legitimately hate him... it's going to hurt. Maybe not because you have some genetic instinct, but and I'm speaking from experience... it hurts to see the end of someone you lived with story. I do not expect you to believe, but I hope you remember this post when he eventually passes, because I want you to know it's okay to cry when someone you hate dies. And personally when my brother (whom I fucking HATED) was murdered, it in no way helped me heal, there was NO satisfaction... there was silence and the possibly of closure dying.

When my brother was murdered I had chosen to watch all the bodycam footage from the police that my lawyer got me, and I watched my brother, cover his face right before they shot him in the face, and proceeded to drag him like a rag doll as he convulsed and died. I truly thought this would of made me happy. I had at one point not spoken to him for 7 years. But instead, I saw a scared child. And instead of exciting me... it made me question who I was.
I'm not telling you to forgive him in any way especially if he's had no effort to try to change. I am simply letting you know that his suffering won't sooth you.
It should, it really fucking should. But at the end of the day you have to forgive yourself for being vulnerable (as odd as that sounds) and let go of the trauma by accepting it and do the best you can in life (should you decide to continue it). You deserve to heal. But anger is a secondary emotion and all it does is mask the hurt we feel. And it's a lot harder than you might think to stay mad at the dead. I found myself more angry at myself because I had to face that my anger was a trauma response and that I had to accept that EVERYTHING that could be done to him had, and it would never bring me peace. And well, I like fuck... who do I hate now? What do I do with all this rage and sadness? My "nightmare SHOULD be over". NOPE, because at the end of the day it was NEVER about him, it was some trickery of the human brain.

Btw, this coming from a man who enjoys snuff films lol. This isn't from some hippie lol,
I'm telling you - because I've been there, and btw... I HOPE that I'm wrong too but...
I got to tell you, I've been listening to peoples stories a lot lately and this is really common.
So, just know that you deserve all the love and security that he did not provide you. But your story isn't over, so take control of this b*tch by the horns.

 

[Orbitc]

I like that you said that, I honestly used to think that way. And the only reason I can say that I no longer think like that is because, I realized that by holding a grudge and letting rage consume me I was... keeping myself in a constant cycle of pain. I get where your coming from, and in a lot of ways I agree with you. However, I personally think (for you, not in general) that if you're ever in that sort of situation that you should stop... not for the person who hurt you, but for yourself.

My brother was really terrible to me, and before he was murdered I actually believed that I would dance on his grave. But when I saw the police footage it broke me.
Here was my oppressor, now a scared child convulsing from a bullet in his face and police dragging him like a rag doll and shouting at his "corpse" as they cuffed him. I realized shortly after that - that we're all a bunch of fucking idiots who are only able to see our perspective until we come to a "Damascus road". We only fool ourselves into the illusion of control. And, I'm telling you this because when my brother died... I still hated him, but now I hated myself more for not letting go of all the pain I let drown me. I LET my feelings hold me down. I WASN'T strong enough to shake off the trauma, and although I do not think anyone should hurt anyone else...
If there's one thing I want to be able to say about myself, it's I will never let anyone rob me of my compassion again. I am the captain of this sinking ship.
And though it might not mean much, at least I can distinguish between who I am, and who I'm not, and I'm not my brother, and I'm not someone who's going to continue the cycle of abuse and hate. And part of that for me at least, meant I had to forgive him, so I could get a hold of myself.

No one's going to save you but yourself, and yes; that's a choice.
But I hope that you believe in yourself that you're capable of saving yourself IF you choose to.
I'm going to sum up what I'm trying to say as clearly as I can (in my craziness)
" You can choose to acknowledge the beauty in your scars, or you can chose to live with weeping wounds that will not heal. It's up to you."
And if we both fall asleep and never wake up, then I hope I get to met you or someone strong like you in another life.

"- I'd say- the actions of someone who truly cares about their family would be rather to quietly disappear and do it. Surely- if they have become this better person- they wouldn't want you feeling responsible for their death?"
^ That's a literal fallacy. And I gave the guidelines that it would 100% clear that the person is serious and has changed.
The point of this question is if trust can be established... can redemption be achievable?
And if you say it can't, then is that out of hate or apathy or, out of a fear of being hurt again?
Are we really fixed in our perspective, or can we change our minds and accept new information?
Sometimes I question if free will even exists, or if we only have the illusion of choice that's determined by our biochemistry.
And I am also really curious if Survival Instincts potentially cloud our judgement.

It's just that you still have a deeply hidden love for your brother. In my case, there can be no talk of any human feelings. I haven't seen my mother for 20 years - I always hated her - and recently the thought came to me that she was probably already dead - I only feel annoyed at this thought because I was too cowardly to do what I had long wanted - to cut cut her into small pieces alive and flush her down the toilet. In my case, my hatred of people is me. In my case, these are not scars - in my case, it was the amputation of all human emotions like empathy, love and kindness. Now I'll probably have to find out if I can claim the inheritance if this scum is already dead. I don't want to give the house to my relatives. It is difficult for people to understand me when I say such things simply because they have not been in my shoes - my life was ruins already at the start and now I am angry that I could not have had a different start and wasted my life in vain.

 

[TheLastGreySky]

It's just that you still have a deeply hidden love for your brother. In my case, there can be no talk of any human feelings. I haven't seen my mother for 20 years - I always hated her - and recently the thought came to me that she was probably already dead - I only feel annoyed at this thought because I was too cowardly to do what I had long wanted - to cut cut her into small pieces alive and flush her down the toilet. In my case, my hatred of people is me. In my case, these are not scars - in my case, it was the amputation of all human emotions like empathy, love and kindness. Now I'll probably have to find out if I can claim the inheritance if this scum is already dead. I don't want to give the house to my relatives. It is difficult for people to understand me when I say such things simply because they have not been in my shoes - my life was ruins already at the start and now I am angry that I could not have had a different start and wasted my life in vain.

Oh, no... believe me, the emotions I felt were things I would of gambled a million dollars against. I had cut him off for 7 years before, and I had actually stabbed him with a knife before in a heated argument. I enjoyed it. So, when he died and I was affected by it... I was deeply confused. You might feel different, I just hope you know if you end up with the same type of "surprise" that I did, you learn that it was because of you feeling some many terrible things because of someone that eventually revealed that they had felt those things about themselves and that the same person who victimized you was someone else's victim. And again, not to forgive them, no no no, IF my brother had survived I WOULDN'T of cared tbh because I wouldn't of understood or been made aware of my wiring.

You deserve to have the person gone from your mind, but they don't ever really disappear, so I hope you're able to heal and let that dogfaced bitch figure out her own problems. And if it happens, just know it happens at the most unexpected times.