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is there an after life


  • Total voters
    114
Werewolf

Werewolf

Without shelter
May 12, 2020
114
I believe there is no "afterlife" the same as I believe there is no "before life"
Think about it, the fact that billions of years passed before your birth without you being able to perceive anything, not even time.
For every other species on this planet, the concept of living is simple because they don't understand or perceive death, humans on the other hand have been blessed and cursed in the evolutionary lottery to possess intelligence far beyond anything that's come before.
With this intelligence comes both the ability and the need to make sense of death, the one of two events we all share. Being aware of ones ultimate demise and the end of existence as an individual sure does give rise to some fascinating fabrications, religious or otherwise.
Fact is life is just a system and every system strive towards euqalibrium through entropy, in the end the electrochemical process that is defined as life stops and the perceived "you" cease to exist.

What is also fascinating is the atoms currently making up your body has previously been part of other living beings, humans included, so in a way every currently living being is the perceived afterlife of those that came before.
 
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Hurt

Paragon
Nov 13, 2020
905
Some people choose to believe in an afterlife and I respect them.
 
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Darkover

Darkover

Archangel
Jul 29, 2021
5,480
i think you are as old as earth, there is magic at work here, you've been here before you will be here again, unless of course life is a one time thing, from nothingness you came to the nothingness you return, whos to say if it can or can't happen again there is no way of ever proving it or disproving it there's no way of knowing, the fact we can never explain the origin of everything because it's a paradox within it self, how does something come from nothing, Why there is anything at all, where did it all start, the only real conclusion is there's always been something there for all time because you can't get something from nothing
 
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toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
True story, in the news too. A man kill his wife, I think burried her body in the land behind their home, and he lived there for like the next 4-5 years before her body was discovered. If there such thing as afterlife, you BET the wife will come back to haunt him. Why he able to live in that house 4-5 years all happy and dandy with no spirit no ghost visit him? Especially he is the killer that killedhis wife, where her spirit go?

an airplane carry like 200 passengers crashed in the ocean until now nobody find that airplane. If there an afterlife you bet those 200 passengers will come to their spouse/family/loved ones dream and tell them where the airplane is or how to find their body. None of those passengers want to die, you bet if there such things as ghost, spirits, da-mn well they will come back to their home and to their loved ones (even in spirit form).

Another story, on the news too. Some man kill I think his girlfriend, put her body in a box with like acid try to decompose the body, and the box was hide in his garage or something. So where her Spirit? Ghost form? WHERE? Why not come back to the house and haunt him? She didn't want to die, he KILLED her. Where her spirit? He was living all happy in that house like nothing happen. Where the ghost?

LOLLLLLLLLLL so where the afterlife? lol. They didn't want to die, they were MURDER, yet NONE come back to even tell the police who the kill is, LOLLL.

There no afterlife, it something that us human made up and pass it down and pass it around, to give us COMFORT. Human afraid of death, they wish they still can continue exist living after death, even if that in an afterlife world.
 
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Darkover

Darkover

Archangel
Jul 29, 2021
5,480
YOU'VE ACTUALLY BEEN HERE BEFORE. WE JUST MADE SURE YOU FORGOT.
 
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bennay

bennay

Lost traveler
Sep 2, 2021
111
People are afraid of death because when the electrical activity in your brain stops, you cease existing. You are not just no longer a physical being, there is no more "you" other than an inert physical body. And as far as I'm aware, once that electrical activity is gone, that's it, and there isn't any coming back from that. It's literally the nothingness that people are afraid of. It's what drives our instinct to stay alive. We cannot fathom what it's like to just... be gone. That it's not just blackness that's there, blackness would be awareness. It's literally a cessation of existence. It is terrifying. That's why religion has such a stronghold - people want to believe there's something after so they don't have to imagine what that "nothingness" is.

Everyone wants to believe there's something after death, because the void is terrifying, but no matter how much we try, once that electrical activity is gone, we're gone. Even "the void" is somewhat of a misnomer, because there isn't a void. A void would imply a place.
an airplane carry like 200 passengers crashed in the ocean until now nobody find that airplane. If there an afterlife you bet those 200 passengers will come to their spouse/family/loved ones dream and tell them where the airplane is or how to find their body. None of those passengers want to die, you bet if there such things as ghost, spirits, da-mn well they will come back to their home and to their loved ones (even in spirit form).

True story, in the news too. A man kill his wife, I think burried her body in the land behind their home, and he lived there for like the next 4-5 years before her body was discovered. If there such thing as afterlife, you BET the wife will come back to haunt him. Why he able to live in that house 4-5 years all happy and dandy with no spirit no ghost visit him? Especially he the killer that kill his wife, where he spirit go?

Another story, on the news too. Some man kill I think his girlfriend, put her body in a box with like acid try to decompose the body, and the box was hide in his garage or something. So where her Spirit? Ghost form? WHERE? Why not come back to the house and haunt him? She didn't want to die, he KILLED her. Where her spirit? He was living all happy in that house like nothing happen. Where the ghost?

LOLLLLLLLLLL so where the afterlife? lol. They didn't want to die, they were MURDER, yet NONE come back to even tell the police who the kill is, LOLLL.

There no afterlife, it something that us human made up and pass it down and pass it around, to give us COMFORT. Human afraid of death, they wish they still can continue exist living after death, even if that in an afterlife world.
what's your perspectives on mediums that know things that they would otherwise not know if a persons spouse, parent, child spirit wasn't there to communicate?
 
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toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
lol until I see that mediums with my own eyes or that mediums do reading on me, I don't believe in mediums. Go find that medium and tell them to read me.




ETA:
btw, talking about medium i would like to share this. Mediums are Fake, in my experience it is.

I lost my son in 2019. In the year 2019 when I lost my son, yes I'm the mother, and the boy is my biological son. You BET if afterlife is real, my son will come to my dreams and talk to me. Yet, NONE.

I was so desperate try to communicate with my son, I went to this medium, the pay was $600. I'm not dumb, I refused to say a single word about my dead son or anything about my background. Guess what? The medium couldn't connect to shi-t, NOTHING. So I got my refund, $600 back.

There ya go, medium my butt. Let go find a medium that can find me my dead son, because I would love to talk to my son.

There no afterlife, my son simply cease to exist, he forever gone and I forever will not see him again, not in spirit form, afterlife, yada yada, nothing.
 
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bennay

bennay

Lost traveler
Sep 2, 2021
111
lol until I see that mediums with my own eyes or that mediums do reading on me, I don't believe in mediums. Go find that medium and tell them to read me.




ETA:
btw, talking about medium i would like to share this. Mediums are Fake, in my experience it is.

I lost my son in 2019. In the year 2019 when I lost my son, yes I'm the mother, and the boy is my biological son. You BET if afterlife is real, my son will come to my dreams and talk to me. Yet, NONE.

I was so desperate try to communicate with my son, I went to this medium, the pay was $600. I'm not dumb, I refused to say a single word about my dead son or anything about my background. Guess what? The medium couldn't connect to shi-t, NOTHING. So I got my refund, $600 back.

There ya go, medium my butt. Let go find a medium that can find me my dead son, because I would love to talk to my son.

There no afterlife, my son simply cease to exist, he forever gone and I forever will not see him again, not in spirit form, afterlife, yada yada, nothing.
I'm sorry that was your experience. I have had the opposite experience. Those claiming to be a medium charging $600, is probably going to be a fake, I personally don't bother with those ones. Those that are genuine are in it to help and heal and don't charge up the ass for their service. Mine for example, doesn't charge me at all. The night my wife and I were in the car accident that claimed her life, my wedding ring flew off, I was devastated, went to the medium, gave no information, and she said "your wife mentioned your ring, it's in the back seat between the seat and door on her side of the car" months later when I finally had the car released, went to the yard, sure shit enough, there was my ring, right where she said it would be. Amongst other very personal things that only my wife and I shared. However our beliefs differ, I respect yours and won't try to change them. We are all trying to cope and do it in different ways. But I'm very sorry for the loss of your child, It's not easy losing a loved one and it doesn't ever get easier like all these hopefuls try to shove down your throat because they don't really understand.
My thoughts are with you.
 
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Werewolf

Werewolf

Without shelter
May 12, 2020
114
what's your perspectives on mediums that know things that they would otherwise not know if a persons spouse, parent, child spirit wasn't there to communicate?

My perspective is that people generally believe what they want to believe, and given half a chance will impose those beliefs onto others. People have been inventing ideas to cope with death since the beginning of time, and communicating with deceased loved ones is one of the oldest.
 
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Gustav Hartmann

Gustav Hartmann

Enlightened
Aug 28, 2021
1,019
If you are not a solipsist and go along with the working hypothesis that there is a reality outside of your mind, then there is no indication of an afterlife.

An example: Imagine a puzzle, all pieces assembled. When you then destroy the puzzle, you have only the pieces, the image of the assembled puzzle is gone. Nobody would say: The image is still existing in the afterlife of puzzles!

Afterlife is wishful thinking caused by our survival instinct. The latest findings in brain research make clear, that a living brain is a necessary precondition for our mind and consciousness.

NDE´s have noting to do with afterlife, they are something similar to dreams.

But somehow, we are immortal. Imagine our life is a video. The existence of a video does not end when it is not watched anymore. I cannot believe that only the three seconds of presence are existing and the past is not existing anymore and the future is not yet existing. Maybe I misuse the word existing.
 
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Darkover

Darkover

Archangel
Jul 29, 2021
5,480
evolution doesn't know any better, it's main goal is to create a machine capable of surviving the environment there in,
if evloution created a a machine with a inbuilt way to cease functioning at will that machine would soon go extinct due to survival of the fittest
hence none of us have any inbuilt way to cease functionin, the size of the universe is literally unimaginable, our brains can not comprehend the distances. The size of objects is unimaginable, even our own sun is extremely hard to visualise and that's absolutely tiny on the grand scale of things.
why would the universe bring you alive just to make you nothing forever, atoms are the building blocks that make up everything we only exist because of the atoms we are made up of, sure self don't exist at all cause soon you will break down and cease to exist altogether
 
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R

rxleep

Member
Oct 11, 2021
33
I sure as hell hope not.
 
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mousebot

mousebot

Member
Oct 11, 2021
40
I really dont know and no one will ever know so i dont think about it much anymore. I knew someone once who died on a hospital bed before being "brought back" by doctors. They said they "went into the light", that everything was warm in a non physical way and they felt free. im imagining they felt nothing else. Honestly that would be the best way for me, since thats the only one i cant imagine getting tiring fast.

But if we really are just evolved brains inside meat, which i cant say, then no i dont believe there would be anything, as you just shut off, and said friend was probably still half alive then.

Another theory i have sometimes is that some sort of hell does exist. Not for being good or bad, those dont exist in a cosmic sense, but for negative energy in a way. There have been times when ive felt so sick with negativity and i just had the gut feeling that if it continues it will stay with me forever somehow, it will be my hell. It could fit in with the "going into the light" theory, as "going into the light" could be the result of a happy well spent life of good energy whereas a depressive and dreadfully spent life could lead to something more dark and dusky, not hellfire or "eternal suffering", but the drowning feeling of negativity with you forever
evolution doesn't know any better, it's main goal is to create a machine capable of surviving the environment there in,
if evloution created a a machine with a inbuilt way to cease functioning at will that machine would soon go extinct due to survival of the fittest
hence none of us have any inbuilt way to cease functionin, the size of the universe is literally unimaginable, our brains can not comprehend the distances. The size of objects is unimaginable, even our own sun is extremely hard to visualise and that's absolutely tiny on the grand scale of things.
why would the universe bring you alive just to make you nothing forever, atoms are the building blocks that make up everything we only exist because of the atoms we are made up of, sure self don't exist at all cause soon you will break down and cease to exist altogether
That makes sense in a way. After all we did evolve consciousness through evolution, and we still dont understand it at all entirely.
 
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Freedom Believer

Freedom Believer

Forever alone.
Dec 23, 2019
351
I hope so, but either way, I won't have to stress anymore. I just hope not to be reincarnated because this world fucking sucks.
 
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callme

callme

I'm a loose cannon - I bang all the time.
Aug 15, 2021
1,234
I hope so, but either way, I won't have to stress anymore. I just hope not to be reincarnated because this world fucking sucks.
Wouldn't it be the same when you come back?
 
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NotStrongEnough

NotStrongEnough

Nihilist extraordinaire
Oct 3, 2021
85
what's your perspectives on mediums that know things that they would otherwise not know if a persons spouse, parent, child spirit wasn't there to communicate?

I don't believe in any of it. I know how they work, they ask you probing questions to find out what makes you react, then they watch your minute body language reactions that you yourself aren't even aware you're doing.

It's the exact same method that's used by poker players to read if you're bluffing. Reading body language isn't new or novel, which is why "mediums" and "psychics" have been around since the start of recorded history.



I would say this is one of the most disrespectful things I think I've ever seen, but I don't think the dead REALLY care all that much. One thing I can tell you is, I would bet dollars to donuts those people they were praying for in the next room were already embalmed. I lived in a funeral home for about 4 years and I now know far more about how managing dead bodies work then I ever thought I'd want to. When they would get a call that a body had died, they had to get the body embalmed within 24 hours. I can only think of 1 time where it wasn't within 24 hours and that was because the embalming company they used was closed for a short period of time.
 
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callme

callme

I'm a loose cannon - I bang all the time.
Aug 15, 2021
1,234
I would say this is one of the most disrespectful things I think I've ever seen
I understand, in light of your experience living there. How does that work though, living in a funeral home?

Don't take her seriously. Searching for Melissa, she's one of those ridiculous church motivational retards and she's changed quite a lot of churches (WOWlife currently, what a name for a church). It's obvious she's in for the money every time. Those people suck on ice.

Why is it necessarily up to 24 hours? And how do they do it?

I bet the mortuary worker either went to the other room to call the police. Or he was just laughing his ass off.
 
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NotStrongEnough

NotStrongEnough

Nihilist extraordinaire
Oct 3, 2021
85
I understand, in light of your experience living there. How does that work though, living in a funeral home?

Don't take her seriously. Searching for Melissa, she's one of those ridiculous church motivational retards and she's changed quite a lot of churches (WOWlife currently, what a name for a church). It's obvious she's in for the money every time. Those people suck on ice.

Why is it necessarily up to 24 hours? And how do they do it?

I bet the mortuary worker either went to the other room to call the police. Or he was just laughing his ass off.
The funeral home has living quarters. In the one I lived in, it was literally a mansion where the entire first floor had been turned into the funeral parlor (funny enough, which is also where we showered. LOL. There was only a bathtub upstairs). If you watch any tv shows with funeral homes, they all have living quarters as well. Haunting of Hill House, the grown up Shirley lives in her funeral home with her family, in Six Feet Under, the family also lives above their funeral home. I'm usually pretty open online, so if I could, I'd show the actual house I lived in, but because I know we try to be anonymous here, I'll refrain. The house itself was actually really freakin cool though. It'd had famous people stay in it because it previously had a walkway connected to it that allowed people to walk over to a theater that had been torn down.

She was also talking about Phoenix. I'd be curious to know what funeral homes she went to LOL I can't imagine what the hell the funeral home director did. And another question I have is, what the hell is diamond dust and how the hell did they acquire it? LOL

The reason you have to do it within 24 hours is because the body starts decomposing literally as soon as you die. Up to 24 hours later, the skin has already started to shrink, which is why we also see things like nails or hair "growing" on dead people, it's just the skin that's starting to tighten. There is no longer blood flowing to the skin, which means the cells inside the skin start breaking down because they aren't getting oxygen. I never saw the embalming myself because they contracted it out to another funeral home about 15 minutes away but, per law, you're required to have the equipment there to embalm - the equipment looked almost like something out of a sci fi movie. It was literally 20 years ago now that I lived there but I remember a machine that looked like this:
84275-9519944.jpg


The only thing I ever asked about embalming was a high level explanation, and the way I understood it, this basically acts as a dialysis machine, except instead of replacing bad blood with good, it replaces embalming fluid.
 
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R

RottenApple

Loneliness is not a phase
Dec 7, 2020
63
lol until I see that mediums with my own eyes or that mediums do reading on me, I don't believe in mediums. Go find that medium and tell them to read me.




ETA:
btw, talking about medium i would like to share this. Mediums are Fake, in my experience it is.

I lost my son in 2019. In the year 2019 when I lost my son, yes I'm the mother, and the boy is my biological son. You BET if afterlife is real, my son will come to my dreams and talk to me. Yet, NONE.

I was so desperate try to communicate with my son, I went to this medium, the pay was $600. I'm not dumb, I refused to say a single word about my dead son or anything about my background. Guess what? The medium couldn't connect to shi-t, NOTHING. So I got my refund, $600 back.

There ya go, medium my butt. Let go find a medium that can find me my dead son, because I would love to talk to my son.

There no afterlife, my son simply cease to exist, he forever gone and I forever will not see him again, not in spirit form, afterlife, yada yada, nothing.

Do you remember the name of that Medium?
 
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deflationary

deflationary

Fussy exister. Living in the epilogue
Mar 11, 2020
529
If you don't think it makes a difference whether you barely remember yourself from before amnesia or if you don't remember yourself at all then it seems to me we should be agreeing more.

In your response, a lot of the things that you mention, it's the other way round, the thing you say I believe - I don't, and the arguments you use against me, actually work the opposite way. Apparently it's only the final interpretation that's different.

For example this

Nope.

Nope.

People are afraid of death because they think there exists some metaphysical, clearly defined self and that once their physical body dies (or in your case, when they lose their memories) that self is erased from the existence and can never be brought back. That's the only way I can think of in which death may be something worth worrying about (assuming that we'd rather keep existing), if we all have a unique ID of sort that a supreme being or fate or whatever irreversibly erases from the database of the Universe, once it decided that we'd died according to a hypothetical objective definition. It's either that or the entire Universe losing the ability to support conscious life forever.

If you don't believe that's the case, then I don't understand how you can disagree with me. You're not your memories or your personality or your biological body. If I kept erasing your memories one by one, there wouldn't be any magical point at which you "die". You'd merely be dead in a sense of not remembering who you were before but that's not the type of death most people are afraid of. In fact, if you told someone who is depressed and suicidal, that you could rewrite their personality so they're no longer prone to depression, make them forget their painful past and give them a new body on top of that, they'd probably be very happy to accept your offer.

If soul-like self exists then maybe there is death, otherwise the concept doesn't really make sense to me or to be more precise, death is temporary.

You say that

It doesn't matter how much you think it would be you. The thing is, you're conscious, you can see, hear, taste, you can use your intellect etc. To think that the presence or lack of one memory (btw, I know that memories aren't like computer files, disconnected from everything else, but I suppose you know what I mean) could be a deciding factor in any fundamental way in determining whether someone is dead or alive sounds bizarre. Philosophers may debate it just as they debate whether someone waking up from a coma after amnesia (even if there are some connecting memories) is still the same individual but none of that has any influence on the fact there is a conscious observer experiencing being alive. In the first paragraph you say you don't think a single memory could play such a deciding role but if it doesn't then where is the disagreement?

I don't care if me now and me that existed a minute or 10 years ago are the same. I don't care if I lose all my memories or if someone changes my personality (well, I do care right now, I don't care if that's the result of death). I don't care if someone replaces my body parts either. As far as I'm concerned being alive is what matters and I can't imagine not being alive as long as consciousness exists anywhere in the Universe.


The thing is, from my point of view, you're the one believing in some form of essence. You believe that you're an essence with a very specific ID and when you "die" this essence is erased from the existence forever. If by any chance someone with the same set of memories appeared somewhere else in the Universe it wouldn't be you anymore because their essence would have a different ID. And if you think it would be you, then you also have to admit that even if memories were not perfectly replicated it would still be you (because your memories change every passing second and yet you don't feel like you die every second) and then, you'd have to accept that it actually doesn't matter how much the memory is altered because there aren't any magically established limits, that if crossed, cause one person to turn into someone else.

This discussion of whether it's going to be me or someone else reminds me of the Sorites paradox. Is one grain of sand a heap? Do heaps exists? Whatever the answer is, one thing is certain, namely, matter exists in one way or another and it doesn't care how it's called.

You say

Again, why are you saying it like it's the opposite of what I'm thinking even though it's the other way round? That's my point basically, it doesn't matter if you remember anything or not, what counts is the experience of being alive and there can be no other experience and there can be no such thing as no experience unless we have this magical ID I mentioned earlier or unless the entire Universe becomes forever incapable of hosting conscious life. Perhaps then we can die. Otherwise, we can only forget, have our personality changed and bodies replaced. But we'll always feel conscious no matter what form we take.

If you don't believe in the existence of objective self, then death loses meaning. There is only amnesia and sudden personality changes. Which is my point basically.
It's only once you draw clean lines limiting what every person is that death becomes a problem.

But that's how I view it. Again, this is strange because the thing you suggest, I'm already on that side, except my conclusion is completely different. This configuration, it consists of the entire Universe when you think of it. Our skin is not a barrier, it's a bridge. Or maybe not even that because the idea that our body is somehow fundamentally separated from the rest of the world is nothing but an illusion. It's just one continuous flow of energy and matter that is conscious. We're all that thing and we're fundamentally one. If the presence of multiple brains is confusing, imagine what it would be like if there was only one conscious brain inside the Universe. I think this view, that everyone is everything, plays well with the lack of belief in essence and metaphysical IDs.

That's why I said I should make a full thread about it. Because honestly, I didn't express all my thoughts out of convenience, neither in that nor in this post and now it's getting messy :(


I think that we basically agree on how the universe works, we just disagree on what the best way of describing it is. Kinda like compatibilists vs hard determinists on free will. It just seems to me that your definitions don't help in actually clarifying things and more just gloss over the actual nature of experience. I'm not seeing what you're gaining in thinking of things in the terms you're using.

I typed out another long reply responding to you paragraph by paragraph, but then realized that that's not the most useful way of doing this. It was just a lot of restating the same thing over and over again in different words.

I'll simply try to explain my position again from scratch while responding to some of your objections and making some corrections and amendments to my position in the process.

Here's how I think a self works. I think there's just a body and it experiences the world through its senses. Its inner experience, its memories and ability to model the future, creates in that body the sense of selfhood. That sense of self isn't some unchanging essence, it's a dynamic process that keeps being constantly rewritten, what unifies it is just its continuous evolution from one state into another. If the body which is generating the experience dies, the inner world, the sense of self, also dies.

Whether you want to call the totality of the mental experiences of that body over time one self or multiple selves is simply a matter of taste. If the mental narrative changes enough then it might be better to think of there being multiple selves over time. But the borders between those selves would of necessity be fuzzy and arbitrary. That's not a huge problem though, fuzzy borders is the norm. Just like with your example of Sorites paradox. The right answer there isn't that heaps don't exist or that everything is a heap. It's just that the lines are fuzzy. But even if there's multiple selves over time, they're still all tied to this one body.

If another body somewhere out there is having the exact same experiences somehow as our first body, then I suppose they can in a sense be called the same person, though it wouldn't be the most intuitive answer for me. If you hit one of them, the other one isn't going to feel it. So there's a clear way of distinguishing them. The lump of matter that is generating the experience is important as well. Ultimately that's what's "running" the self.

Calling everyone the same person just ignores basic distinctions like that. I am not all people. I am what I feel like I am in this moment. I (conscious experience atm) identify with some part of my (this body that has evolved over time) past experience. If I go back long enough, I stop identifying with the past self that gave rise to my current self. If you emphasize the continuous evolution, then we're still the same person. If you emphasize the overwhelming differences between the natures of these two snapshots of the body that has borne my name then maybe you'll conclude they're two different people. Doesn't really matter either way, both are just convenient labels. Neither is a claim about the existence of a metaphysical soul.

Is there anything we disagree about other than where we draw borders (Or whether we draw borders at all)?
 
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Z

Zaz

Member
Oct 12, 2021
33
I'm still searching for a life during this existence. How could I be disappointed of the aftermath...
 
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