Is the "secret" to recovery just know how to be open about your suicidal ideation?

[NZkiwi]

I went on a snowboarding trip and slowly (very carefully)
Even while drunk/high i was able to be open to my friends without distressing them
I told them what I had already told the mental health time I've been under the same week

I'm ambivilent about recovery vs being alive
I've ordered stuff online, but I was told by my mental health team not to drop it off
Even thought i'm functioning, I don't experience strong feelings of happiness (or anything when I do things)
I feel like a failure to myself, societty etc etc ... basically the thoughts I had here

...

And they were just like okay with it
Not distressed
Obviously concerned cause y'know I'm under the mental health team
A little sad

but it was nice them being a safe space for me?
Idk i'm very lucky


***

So is that the secret to recovery?
I keep opening up and extending my safe space?
I keep being honest "in the right way"

***

Shitty how I have to learn the "right" way of opening up
but nice to know that I can

 

[WirelessConnections]

I think it's a two way street. Being able to open up is important, but being able to get what you need from others is what you're opening up for in the first place. I'm glad to hear your friends were receptive and kind to you!

I've opened up to my parents and my friends about my depression and even my suicidal ideation, and they were supportive/nonjudgmental (which I'm very lucky for), but they didn't really have much to say in response other than just listening. For some, that's enough. I just kinda felt embarrassed and regretful about it afterwards, though. It didn't really change much for me.

 

[SuicidalCheese]

Being honest, being open, and being ready to accept that one needs help is always a good start.

 

[Sphinxi]

I've opened up to my parents and my friends about my depression and even my suicidal ideation, and they were supportive/nonjudgmental (which I'm very lucky for), but they didn't really have much to say in response other than just listening. For some, that's enough. I just kinda felt embarrassed and regretful about it afterwards, though. It didn't really change much for me.

I think it helps for some people, particularly people who have more "emotional" suicidal ideation. More common on this forum, and I imagine for you, is "analytic" suicidal ideation, for whom opening up doesn't really help that much, as the problem for these people is that they assess their life as not worth living. I think for these people the best help that they could get is someone helping them make a life worth living.

But generally being open with people close to you is beneficial

 

[byec560]

No lol. I've been p open about the things I've been through and nothing good has ever come of it. Meanwhile I have had several people make fun of me and spread my gossip around. Even when people seem sympathetic, it's usually only in the moment and they either forget or actively treat me worse in the long run. Your mileage may vary though ofc.

 

[2Sensible]

Being opened about helped me tremendously, i still have pain and sometimes crisis. But it's way better than before when no one knew.

 

[StarryEyed]

Great question @NZkiwi I'm hoping so!!! Talking about suicidal ideation is my last-ditch effort, which is why I joined this forum two years ago. It's helped a LOT and I'm still alive . Until last year only very close friends and family knew about my suicidal ideation. But last year, I started extending that to more friends and family.

It has really helped to have more people to talk to, like a release valve being opened and now having a better understanding of why I think like this. But, like the experience by @WirelessConnections sometimes it's kind of embarrassing (and of no apparent use) if they have no clue about this problem and have no input.

The thing is, the only people who *really* get it - I mean at a very profound level - are here on the forum. I am so grateful for this site.

 

[slapntickle]

I really think it's key. I haven't opened up to anyone at all about it (except clock-watching therapists), but I think all things point toward it being the right thing to do. If someone close to me was feeling like me, I would absolutely want them to open up to me, and as well as listen, I would try and do everything I could do get them out of it (call, invite them to places, make sure that I was there as a contact etc).

The big issue I have is that everyone has their own problems, and having a potentially suicidal person is just really another problem to deal with, another stress, another issue. I don't want to burden anyone with this, even though I myself would want to be burdened, but I feel I'm maybe just a real empath, and I have a very high tolerance for helping others (that others might not have, and that's OK).

I think for now it's best to keep it to professionals, and if I do get better, I can open up to people about it in the past tense (ie I was suicidal but I'm not any more).

 

[NZkiwi]

but they didn't really have much to say in response other than just listening

im glad your parents listen

thats gold

i wonder if you ask them for stuff eg have finner woth me a couple times a week theyd be responsive

what i get from friends is, what do you need from me

i guess im low maitenence so i dont need much
im curious, asking you directly, what do you need from tour parents to keep you safe?


***

input.

The thing is, the only people who *really* get it - I mean at a very profound level - are here on the forum. I am so grateful for this site.

i get that, we really get you
and thats comforting not being alone

i wonder if the contrast of not getting you would be helpful
i showed a few friends a video of someone hanging, which i told them made me feel calm and reassured


they watched it, non judgy, and were disturbed
and i wonder if i can align myself with that over time as i resenstise myself to that material
i think for now i know my behavioir itself is a trigger and should be interuptted e.g. agreeded if i watch something /bupass my blocks i will call a friend at any time to slowly unlearn thst pathway



***

and having a potentially suicidal person is just really another problem to deal with, another stress, another issue.

yeah i get this
i struggle to reach out
what helped me was have an agreeded trigger when ill call them rather than generally feeling bad. i feel like shit 9/10 suicidal most nights
but behavioir trigger made it easier to come to a shared solution
they do keep emphasisomg anything but having a speciric agreeded criteria was jelpful.
do you have thst with your friends?

 

[StarryEyed]

i wonder if the contrast of not getting you would be helpful
i showed a few friends a video of someone hanging, which i told them made me feel calm and reassured


they watched it, non judgy, and were disturbed
and i wonder if i can align myself with that over time as i resenstise myself to that material
i think for now i know my behavioir itself is a trigger and should be interuptted e.g. agreeded if i watch something /bupass my blocks i will call a friend at any time to slowly unlearn thst pathway

You showed a hanging video to your friends?? For real??? Fuck. I would never do that to anyone. Not even myself. Ummmm..... You might want to rethink how you talk to your friends about suicide. Fuck.

 

[狐狐狐]

I went on a snowboarding trip and slowly (very carefully)
Even while drunk/high i was able to be open to my friends without distressing them
I told them what I had already told the mental health time I've been under the same week

I'm ambivilent about recovery vs being alive
I've ordered stuff online, but I was told by my mental health team not to drop it off
Even thought i'm functioning, I don't experience strong feelings of happiness (or anything when I do things)
I feel like a failure to myself, societty etc etc ... basically the thoughts I had here

...

And they were just like okay with it
Not distressed
Obviously concerned cause y'know I'm under the mental health team
A little sad

but it was nice them being a safe space for me?
Idk i'm very lucky


***

So is that the secret to recovery?
I keep opening up and extending my safe space?
I keep being honest "in the right way"

***

Shitty how I have to learn the "right" way of opening up
but nice to know that I can

Recovery is difficult and it's not linear. I have really really bad days and tolerable days, more often than not.

In my early years I finally caved and sold my handgun.

Lately I've been talking more to my closest friends about it. It's hard, but if you know someone you can trust, sit down and talk.

Besides that finding a routine helps, I've found.

 

[crabclaw]

I wouldn't necessarily say that it's the secret, because everybody is different, and people might react differently. I do relate though, because I used to just hold in my depression, and that made me ruminate and spiral more and more. When I just became open with it, I took it less seriously, and am more able to acknowledge that it's an illness, separate from me, and that I should get support.

 

[Musiclover338]

whats the point when people dont understand what you feel like anyways as they cant walk in ur shoes or understand why you feel that way.

half the time u get judged for it anyway, other half is people being empathic or trying to ask why or how they can help when u end up feeling the same either way.

 

[NZkiwi]

Recovery is difficult and it's not linear. I have really really bad days and tolerable days, more often than not.

In my early years I finally caved and sold my handgun.

Lately I've been talking more to my closest friends about it. It's hard, but if you know someone you can trust, sit down and talk.

Besides that finding a routine helps, I've found.

do tou have better insight to gour triggers and can manage them over time

or does tmitnjust come back

yeah the nin linear reocvoery hutts, sometimes i wish it would get better

how do the conversations with your friends go? do they listen, problem solve? or is it nice just letting it out?

im a guy so i end my chats with my guy friends just patting them on the back but the hugs are nice too lol haha

You showed a hanging video to your friends?? For real??? Fuck. I would never do that to anyone. Not even myself. Ummmm..... You might want to rethink how you talk to your friends about suicide. Fuck.

.i showed two friends seperstly. both watched it shorter than i did
one it sas just a glsnce and he put it away
he got the point
they were bith disurbed but thanks me for showing them

i got thr point
.it is disturbing content and im desensitised to it

maybe i should be more aligned with them re it

re think how i talk to my friends? yeah im not going to show any more to them besides ive blocked the contnet on both my pgone and laptop, and made the agreement if i do view it/bypass the blocks to let them know

how do you talk to your friends about suicide?

**

whats the point when people dont understand what you feel like anyways as they cant walk in ur shoes or understand why you feel that way.

half the time u get judged for it anyway, other half is people being empathic or trying to ask why or how they can help when u end up feeling the same either way.

yeah i wonder if my sutuation is different
i get the comment, i understand why youre suicidal but i sont agree
rhey dont have the same emotional behavioural response as me to my thoughts,
they can imagine whst im going through but they cant understand, and im okay

sorry youve been judged about it
ive had actuslly really positive experiences

my friends asked how they can help, and they have been asking for a while
only recently have i figured out what i need from them and meet them half way

what do tou think you need from your friends going throigh these tough times? how do you communicate to them? is it a specific, measurable, achievable, realistic and right timeframe of a request for your friends? reckon they will be receptive or just dismissive/minimisation?

sorry to hear its been a tough time
hope you can keep us updated

 

[StarryEyed]

.i showed two friends seperstly. both watched it shorter than i did
one it sas just a glsnce and he put it away
he got the point
they were bith disurbed but thanks me for showing t

i got thr point
.it is disturbing content and im desensitised to it

maybe i should be more aligned with them re it

re think how i talk to my friends? yeah im not going to show any more to them besides ive blocked the contnet on both my pgone and laptop, and made the agreement if i do view it/bypass the blocks to let them know

Showing a hanging video to explain to your friends what it feels like being suicidal - to me - is like explaining breast cancer by whipping out your breast, or explaining pregnancy by taking off your pants and undies then sprawling your legs to show your vagina, or explaining your obsession with masturbation by showing someone how you masturbate.

how do you talk to your friends about suicide?

I explain that I've been struggling for over 30 years with this suicide temptation, that it's a result of a dreadfully difficult life (talking in broad strokes, without getting into the gory details of my ridiculous life). I explain what I have tried and am trying to manage this suicidal frame of mind. Several people know that I tried to get euthanised last year. Several people know that I have set up advance directives for no medical care and euthanasia if I lose my ability to give a voice in my care. Several people also know I am currently refusing all tests and treatment with the exception of comfort care.

To me, that's the stuff that needs to be talked about and worked through, both here on the forum and IRL. But maybe that's not relevant to you because each of us is unique. Maybe all you and I have in common is that we both want to die (or just parts of us want to die). And that's okay if we're otherwise completely different. I still value you and care about you.

 

[NZkiwi]

Showing a hanging video to explain to your friends what it feels like being suicidal - to me - is like explaining breast cancer by whipping out your breast, or explaining pregnancy by taking off your pants and undies then sprawling your legs to show your vagina, or explaining your obsession with masturbation by showing someone how you masturbate.

yeah i guess when you phrase it that way its graphic

i wonder if its worth considering after two attempts last week my friends were acutely aware of my safety, ie i was asked by them to live with them for a month or so until things stabilise, etc etc

intimacy to me is an important value (not just sexually) and i guesd this was me letting them into my inner world
intern, i feel like im closer to them and they shared some of their more private experiences

im not gonna show it to them again, but i did promise if i did bypass my blocks or view material again id give them a call in the moment as a way of stopping my behavioir exculating into another sttempt to kill myself


how intimiate are you with your friends? are your allowed into each others inner worlds?

you seem a little older, does the texture of friendships change? or are you from a big city?


***

To me, that's the stuff that needs to be talked about and worked through, both here on the forum and IRL

is this an invitation for me/others to ask questions?
keen to hear what you want to share, and insight to your machinary around your suicidality

 

[StarryEyed]

I'm 62.

You're missing my point. I'll try again...

What does another guy hanging himself have to do with why you want to kill yourself?

Put another way ... And even if you showed your friends how you yourself want to hang yourself, what does that have to do with why you want to kill yourself?

Put another way.... Perhaps you're stuck on the how to commit suicide, rather than the why you want to commit suicide?

And maybe if that's true, that's okay for you. I'm focused on the why, and I see the how as really rather irrelevant in comparison.

 

[NZkiwi]

yeah i did miss your point

im not focused on the why, and the background hum is gonna be there for a while
im focused on the how cause ive had 2 attwmpts last week (ibe had 5 in my life total, last ones were years ago and i thoight i was over it), so concerned where this suicidal acute state comes from

****


let me use an anology: running

why i run? to be fit. to look good. i think its fun

how i run: intervals, long runs, good shoes, posting on strava, montiroing my protien intake etc

when im running, im focusing on the how
the why ignites the flame, the how fuels the fire

ive always wanted to be fit, look good and have fun running
the why is always present

the how is recent and only happens when i run regularily
the why doesnt matter when im engaged in the process


***
why am i suicidal
normally 2nd to rejection, uncertainty
pain, loss of.hope of future etc
gried of the past/imagined future with certain people

my friends already know this
nothing here is really actionable
ibe talked about it enough so dont have many sevrets here

some of the why is just "normal life" and you cant avoid triggers associated with day to day living
no longer in environmtns of abuse etc


how am i suicidal
this is new, concealsed and secret info
this is the underlying machinary that leads to an atrempt

the problem was i would call for help after an attempt, a start i guess
they wanted me to call for help before an attempt

hence discussing some behsviour triggers e.g watching videos rehersimg how i die (similar to watching running vidoes on youtube practicng how to eun)
viewimg content om how to hang myself (similar to reading how to run better)
ordering things to kill myself (similar to buying new shoes and other equipment)



**

Put another way.... Perhaps you're stuck on the how to commit suicide, rather than the why you want to commit suicide?

to answer explicityl hmm no i know why i want to kill myself
my psychiatrist said to me, she understands why i want to kill myself given my life and events but doesnt agree
ive rationalozed the logic to make suicidal a reasonable option
knowing why didnt stop the attempts i had recetly

im curious what your why is? and why your focusing on it?
i think i know my why pretty well

Perhaps you're stuck on the how to commit suicide, rather than the why you want to commit suicide?

to answer explicitly
i am a man of my word to my friends, how can you trusted if you are not

again two recent attempts and i wanted to know the machinary that lead upto it

i was trying to figure out what hapoened between the "why"/background ideation
and the actual attempts

when i figured out that gap
recovery seemed easier to work

i tried fixing the why for a long time to stop attempts, maybe thT was too airy fairy

ive had peace working on fixing the how


***

And even if you showed your friends how you yourself want to hang yourself, what does that have to do with why you want to kill yourself?

i let them into my inner world
they can see my blindspots and shine light on my unknown unknowns
also wanted to learn from them the appropriate raction to watching this content which is disgust/disturb and re learn thst reaction
also allowed us to co create action plan to disrupt the machinary thst lead to me killing myself

warching videos allowed me to rehenrse it in my mind
also made me rule out options e.g. jumping off cliff, train etc

watching it deznesitises suicidaloty to me and makes suicide more osychologically avaliable to me

**

curious how you think we are different
curious what your friends think about your why

 

[狐狐狐]

do tou have better insight to gour triggers and can manage them over time

or does tmitnjust come back

yeah the nin linear reocvoery hutts, sometimes i wish it would get better

how do the conversations with your friends go? do they listen, problem solve? or is it nice just letting it out?

im a guy so i end my chats with my guy friends just patting them on the back but the hugs are nice too lol haha

Better trigger management, helps a ton. When I was at my worst I was being threatened by boss over some non work related issues.

Regarding managing triggers, I'm not sure what you're are, I try to have open conversations with people who are key in my life.

I personally cannot handle yelling, zero tolerance. 100% of the time it'll give me a full on passing out level, panic attack.

So when entering situations where I have to have an argument, I will keep my tone level and end the conversation if people's tones start getting harsh.

Somethings you just learn to ride out. I've found if things are too noisy I'll stop what I'm doing, let someone know and go find somewhere quiet to decompress.

There's nothing wrong with crying if you have to. In the work environment, don't be afraid to say you need a moment.

In relationships it's okay to go home or bail because you're not vibing with it.

***

Regarding male vs female friends, in my experience fellow woman have been easier to have these conversations with. Although traditionally many of those relationships are built on a higher level of intimacy then most male relationship. *traditionally speaking.

Male friends can handle it just fine too, in past experiences. But I've heard story's of "bros" based friendships not handling it too well.

You just gotta use your judgement. I've culled a lot of my friendships over the years over the ability not to talk about deeper stuff in life or being one sided.

 

[NZkiwi]

There's nothing wrong with crying if you have to. In the work environment, don't be afraid to say you need a moment.

I agree there is nothing wrong with crying, should not really be shame/guilt over it

What i'm strugglign with now is the process of avoding/supressing my emotions (esp negative expressions) is so automatic that I can't even tap into it even if it's an appropriate enviornment, even if I take substances to make it easier ... working through it with my clinical psychologist

I miss being able to feel feelings

 

[hitagi-crab]

i'd like to open up to people i know. but i don't really know who i'd open up to. the girl i'm seeing is a bit worried about me relying on her too much emotionally and i feel like she'd be stressed out or put off if i started relating this kind of thing to her. my other closest friend would probably be open to hearing about it but i think she maybe already thinks of me as a kind of troubled and needy individual and i'd like her to just like me as an equal. i guess part of my issue is that i really hate being looked down on or pitied. i want sympathy but i hate feeling lower than other people. and it's hard to disclose these kinds of thing while still feeling like you're in a place of power or security. plus i often think that people's concern is forced or comes from their own neuroses. anyone checking in on me just becomes like a checkbox i have to tick, like accepting cookies on a new website: 'yes i'm fine, no i'm not going to kill myself, let's proceed.' i assume it's all perfunctory.

so to answer your question: yes, probably, unless you're a huge pain in the ass like me.