Venting Is the MH system this bad everywhere?

[Neraul]

I feel that they just don't think I'm worth saving. I'm autistic and everything is now put down to that. Eating disorder? Autism. Depression? Autism. Crippling mental health issues? Autism. DBT not being effective? Autism and oh that's definitely your fault because it's a wonderful treatment for autistic individuals. Therefore even though you are in a service for moderate to severe mental health issues so we acknowledge you're a mess, you're out. You're not getting a care coordinator anymore or the opportunity to discuss medications. Tough. They implied I got upset at them trying to discharge because I 'get upset at relationships ending' (IE they want to slap a BPD diagnosis on me despite the psych categorically saying it's not the case) because apparently it's inconceivable to be frustrated that they will just kick you out of treatment when something doesn't work after you've cooperated.

I feel guilty trying to fight for treatment. Like a fraud. Because if I was really struggling, I would just give in. But yesterday I nearly did. I had a rough appointment. So rough. Then a huge argument via text with my one remaining family member who accused me of lying over something I absolutely didn't. I am also coming off Topiramate - I went back on it briefly for migraines but it just doesn't agree with me. I get intensely suicidal and have the worst mood swings. Had I had access to the means - I could have CTB. But I didn't have the diazepam, which is want to knock myself out first. I should have done it. I was in absolute turmoil. The mental health system is going to drive me to it if not. I feel so unsafe there. I feel like I'm losing my mind.

Why is it so difficult to get help? Why am I not worth saving to them? I know I'm not. But what is this insanity? This is the UK's NHS. Is it the same elsewhere? How many people must end up forced into choosing CTB?

 

[Seered Doom]

If you want a blunt answer, it is similar to the US in that regard, yes.

 

[Neraul]

If you want a blunt answer, it is similar to the US in that regard, yes.

Does it depend on insurance? Those who have can access and those who don't can't? Or is it mostly universally a difficulty there? I've never dealt with a system whereby healthcare is not (on paper at least) a human right regardless of finance...

 

[snowcloud9]

Sorry you had that experience, mental health professionals are widely incompetent and often dehumanizing. They will treat you like you're a toddler and mentally incapable of rational thought and speaking for yourself. In the US you not only suffer from shitty mental health services, they force you to PAY for it even if you didn't want it. I heard it's better in Germany. And I heard it's worse in Mexico. Your mileage may very.

Also, diazepam? Are you trying to create DDMP2? The PPeH has a guide and says it's easy to obtain via online prescriptions.

 

[Limerance]

Mental health is barely in its infancy as a medical field, and even experts can agree on this. So, we're just figuring things out.

I wouldn't call DBT a "wonderful treatment for autism", but that's because it highly depends on your emotional needs. It was also created for BPD. Those two reasons would make it a complement to a holistic therapeutic approach, but unless your problem is emotional regulation, it shouldn't be the only method your therapist is using.

 

[hi-okbye]

Does it depend on insurance? Those who have can access and those who don't can't? Or is it mostly universally a difficulty there? I've never dealt with a system whereby healthcare is not (on paper at least) a human right regardless of finance...

As someone who has pretty good insurance and who comes from a family with a pretty solid amount of money. The most it does is get you to hopefully better doctors & programs. I know that outside the hospital, it can help a bit. when hospitalized though the most it does is keeps you from having life crumbling debt. Mental health care does tend to be pretty shitty all around, mostly filled with people who have never ben in your shoes and therefore can never fully comprehend how you feel. all they can do is take educated guesses.

 

[Neraul]

Sorry you had that experience, mental health professionals are widely incompetent and often dehumanizing. They will treat you like you're a toddler and mentally incapable of rational thought and speaking for yourself. In the US you not only suffer from shitty mental health services, they force you to PAY for it even if you didn't want it. I heard it's better in Germany. And I heard it's worse in Mexico. Your mileage may very.

Also, diazepam? Are you trying to create DDMP2? The PPeH has a guide and says it's easy to obtain via online prescriptions.

Yes, that sounds familiar. Infantilising. Patronising. Interrupt. Talk over you. These are mainly therapists I'm having issues with so perhaps it's them as a breed as I must be honest and give credit to a few really fantastic previous MH workers I've encountered. They seem to be the minority apparently though. I can not imagine the kick in the teeth of having to pay for this insanity. Would be more bearable to burn money.

No, I OD'd in April and had I not backed out for it not being the right time, I could easily have been successful. I just need the diazepam with the zopiclone to drift off first. It's a comfort thing I think. I used to be handed pills easily but now nobody will because I'm high risk. I'm working on getting some and intend to use it also to bring myself down safely when I'm getting bad - until it is definitely time. I am working on a second method - the OD I know can be unreliable but I know I wouldn't be found for a long time if I need it. I want to find something suitable that I can source resources for as my other method. I am unsure how to source the PPeH as I had read it was only available in certain circumstances. It's only very recently I've started to think of things other than OD.

 

[Scattered-Soul]

See, my country has the opposite problem where they'd rather diagnose you with 12 different disorders than admit it's just autism. Slapping the BPD label the second you show some frustration towards the system is also something I'm familiar with. Now, about the other stuff, I'm also autistic and a lot of those issues you listed can be related to being autistic, that doesn't make them any less real or disabling though, the problem is that a lot of the usual treatments have unpredictable outcomes for us (autistic people) because they weren't invented or thought of with us in mind if that makes sense. And if someone's main problem is the symptoms of their autism then there's really nothing that can be done since there isn't like a treatment for it, not to mention that most mental health "professionals" don't know shit about how autistic brains work and this is a problem all over the world, hell, this applies for mental disorders as well. What I've learned through my personal experience is that strangers online and my own efforts are far more helpful than anything that the mental health system can offer.

Anyway, that probably comes across as an incoherent ramble on my side and isn't exactly related to what you're specifically going through. You are worth-saving, doctors are just fucking incompetent and useless a lot of the time and are either genuinely clueless or don't wanna bother too much as long as they get their money. Also you aren't a fraud, CTB ain't that easy even if you're suffering so much that it's practically like being tortured 24/7, and you deserve to get adequate help when you seek it. I'm really sorry for your experience, you're doing all the right things that people want us to do aka seeking professional help, trying to get better, and fighting for it. The problem is that mental healthcare is shit worldwide and a lot of the times they give up on us if we're seen as difficult cases, trying to resist that can lead a person to feel like they're about to go crazy (in my case I'd have to take a break from visiting doctors just because of how harmful talking with them has been for my mental state) and we're essentially forced into turning towards suicide.

 

[sadwriter]

Does it depend on insurance? Those who have can access and those who don't can't? Or is it mostly universally a difficulty there? I've never dealt with a system whereby healthcare is not (on paper at least) a human right regardless of finance...

I'd say it largely does depend on insurance, though it's also a matter of the provider. Regardless of your financial situation, a lot of therapists/ psychiatrists/ programs are just not particularly good at treating anything beyond run of the mill anxiety &/ or depression.

That being said, I'm sorry that you've had to deal with this. It's extremely shitty that mental health professionals are reducing you down to your diagnosis. That thing about them saying you were upset with discharging because you get "upset with relationships ending" and then implying that it means you have BPD sounded ridiculous. From what I've read, it sounds like a lot of people get stuck the BPD label if they're seen as "difficult" in any way by certain mental health professionals. (Though I don't know your gender, I know that women with autism in particular are often misdiagnosed with BPD.) I hope that you're able to find a more empathetic professional if you choose not to CTB, or else that you're able to get relief from your pain. You aren't a fraud and you are just as worthy of help as anyone else.

 

[Neraul]

Mental health is barely in its infancy as a medical field, and even experts can agree on this. So, we're just figuring things out.

I wouldn't call DBT a "wonderful treatment for autism", but that's because it highly depends on your emotional needs. It was also created for BPD. Those two reasons would make it a complement to a holistic therapeutic approach, but unless your problem is emotional regulation, it shouldn't be the only method your therapist is using.

That's reassuring, thank you. They tried to discharge me when I said it didn't work and said they'd consider me again if I was in a place to 'make changes' yet had said I engaged and tried hard.

I don't overtly self-harm and don't have issues self-regulating that showed up on the diary cards so we couldn't really isolate any damaging behaviours. The therapist kept saying she didn't understand why our sessions didn't look like everyone else's. She told me 'I'm going to say something you won't like but this would be much easier if you had more friends and family'. Not related to anything, just randomly said in the session.

Soul searched but couldn't find a therapeutic reason for that one and felt like a complete failure as I struggle so much with shame and failure in that area. She then denied it and said she had been talking about a study. Lost all faith and trust at that point.

Tbh I have been looking at things like ketamin therapy. I'm just unsure about availability on the NHS

See, my country has the opposite problem where they'd rather diagnose you with 12 different disorders than admit it's just autism. Slapping the BPD label the second you show some frustration towards the system is also something I'm familiar with. Now, about the other stuff, I'm also autistic and a lot of those issues you listed can be related to being autistic, that doesn't make them any less real or disabling though, the problem is that a lot of the usual treatments have unpredictable outcomes for us (autistic people) because they weren't invented or thought of with us in mind if that makes sense. And if someone's main problem is the symptoms of their autism then there's really nothing that can be done since there isn't like a treatment for it, not to mention that most mental health "professionals" don't know shit about how autistic brains work and this is a problem all over the world, hell, this applies for mental disorders as well. What I've learned through my personal experience is that strangers online and my own efforts are far more helpful than anything that the mental health system can offer.

Anyway, that probably comes across as an incoherent ramble on my side and isn't exactly related to what you're specifically going through. You are worth-saving, doctors are just fucking incompetent and useless a lot of the time and are either genuinely clueless or don't wanna bother too much as long as they get their money. Also you aren't a fraud, CTB ain't that easy even if you're suffering so much that it's practically like being tortured 24/7, and you deserve to get adequate help when you seek it. I'm really sorry for your experience, you're doing all the right things that people want us to do aka seeking professional help, trying to get better, and fighting for it. The problem is that mental healthcare is shit worldwide and a lot of the times they give up on us if we're seen as difficult cases, trying to resist that can lead a person to feel like they're about to go crazy (in my case I'd have to take a break from visiting doctors just because of how harmful talking with them has been for my mental state) and we're essentially forced into turning towards suicide.

I think many people here have that issue too. I was very fortunate that I dodged the BPD label but I could feel the therapist thinking it today. I have their psychiatrist's 5 page report stating it is absolutely not BPD at the ready. It is weaponised against us the moment - as you say - we show frustration at the system.

I think you are right. I have felt more validated here than by anyone at that hospital. Feeling suicidal is not an attention seeking behaviour and speaking on it.... it's like taking the pressure off an overboiling pot. Like you, I'm feeling that I may have to stop with trying to engage with mental health services to stop myself from declining any more. Of course, where that will lead... I don't know.

If someone had sat with me and said what you've said here - all of which I agree with and essentially already knew - rather than made me feel I am totally defective and unworthy, I could have walked away without being in complete crisis. How difficult is it to be human? I know the people who suffer the most are often the kindest because they get it. But do you have to have been there to listen to someone talk this way and think, maybe I should show some compassion and understanding? Thank you. You've really helped me this evening. I feel understood.

 

[LonelyKitten]

Infantilising. Patronising.

In my experience, this is just very common. It is a lot easier to dismiss (labels, blaming the largely powerless patient, sedating medication, hospital lock-ups, etc.) those labeled with mental problems, especially because on a societal level, that is widely regarded acceptable.

I have extensive experience with the system in Germany, and imo find it horrific. The lack of say you have in your own care is ridiculous.
You'll be too busy 90 % of the time trying to bulldoze your way through rigid interpretations and notions - forget about getting anything done.
At its worst, the risk of being stripped of your autonomy, in so, so many different ways (like lock-up, loss of rights, potentially harmful medication), at least in my experience, is immense.
Yes the access is mostly free (but in reality, you only have access to a very restricted portion of it if you're on public insurance with little money).
This is also, imo, made largely moot by the insane bureaucracy or waiting times you are likely to run into, and be completely at the mercy of.

In the US, I never really had insurance, so could only access free services basically.
They made a much more informed and patient-centered impression, I'm honestly quite upset I didn't engage very much with the first one I used (I kinda just distracted and procrastinated a bunch instead).
Second one was friendly and nice to talk to, but never pushed much from their end - so I mostly felt like I was just talking about my life for up to an hour without much of a structure, plan, therapy approach or w/e.
Never been much of a fan of that type of therapy, but at least it isn't outright hostile.
Bear in mind these US-based experiences are specifically of free/near-free services in extremely liberal areas/cities that're mostly geared towards marginalized populations.

I guess I also had a brief run-in with UK's NHS on the mental side recently. Wrote extensively about that in my Sectioning/Beachy Head-related posts... While I ended up evading the ward, the interactions I did have with the mental staff gave me all the same impressions as usual.
Not really listening, just gunning to shut you down - they were very loose on prescribing strong psych meds like benzos, also p sure some questions they asked, which I always denied, were aimed at trying to diagnose me with whatever.

Overall, at this point I find it easiest to try and manage my mental health on my own terms. Get informed, figure out what works for me individually, and such.
My impression is that the standard system is at best useful for temporary crises of neurotypical people - this would explain to me the inconceivable manner in which many of the mental health professionals I encountered approach or view these issues.
With chronic, deep running stuff I haven't seen anything useful yet, despite extensive contact (minus that one I didn't really engage with, there might have been promise there)
What's important to remember is that mental health isn't really as much of a hard science, or very well/much researched at all.
It's just a societal concept, and has many roots in abuse against marginalized people (like pathologizing women/lgbt ppl), so I wouldn't see it as a be-all-end all or anything.

 

[Neraul]

I'd say it largely does depend on insurance, though it's also a matter of the provider. Regardless of your financial situation, a lot of therapists/ psychiatrists/ programs are just not particularly good at treating anything beyond run of the mill anxiety &/ or depression.

That being said, I'm sorry that you've had to deal with this. It's extremely shitty that mental health professionals are reducing you down to your diagnosis. That thing about them saying you were upset with discharging because you get "upset with relationships ending" and then implying that it means you have BPD sounded ridiculous. From what I've read, it sounds like a lot of people get stuck the BPD label if they're seen as "difficult" in any way by certain mental health professionals. (Though I don't know your gender, I know that women with autism in particular are often misdiagnosed with BPD.) I hope that you're able to find a more empathetic professional if you choose not to CTB, or else that you're able to get relief from your pain. You aren't a fraud and you are just as worthy of help as anyone else.

A good point. I've seen doctors privately that were not particularly great. Must be so incredibly frustrating to have to navigate that system on top of being unwell though.
Yes, female with autism... who has a strong sense of justice and picks up on inconsistencies. It's a great combination for them!
Thank you so much. I hope to keep searching for help for as long as I can bear it and keep working on my CTB plan as the end goal. Thank you :)

 

[wait.what]

Nvm—don't want to wade that deep into US politics.

All types of healthcare here took a terrible hit with covid. Mental healthcare was largely awful even before that.

If you want to be treated like a person, prepare to pay out of pocket. Many of the better hospitals, clinics, etc., no longer accept insurance at all.

 

[undecided]

I feel that they just don't think I'm worth saving. I'm autistic and everything is now put down to that. Eating disorder? Autism. Depression? Autism. Crippling mental health issues? Autism. DBT not being effective? Autism and oh that's definitely your fault because it's a wonderful treatment for autistic individuals. Therefore even though you are in a service for moderate to severe mental health issues so we acknowledge you're a mess, you're out. You're not getting a care coordinator anymore or the opportunity to discuss medications. Tough. They implied I got upset at them trying to discharge because I 'get upset at relationships ending' (IE they want to slap a BPD diagnosis on me despite the psych categorically saying it's not the case) because apparently it's inconceivable to be frustrated that they will just kick you out of treatment when something doesn't work after you've cooperated.

I feel guilty trying to fight for treatment. Like a fraud. Because if I was really struggling, I would just give in. But yesterday I nearly did. I had a rough appointment. So rough. Then a huge argument via text with my one remaining family member who accused me of lying over something I absolutely didn't. I am also coming off Topiramate - I went back on it briefly for migraines but it just doesn't agree with me. I get intensely suicidal and have the worst mood swings. Had I had access to the means - I could have CTB. But I didn't have the diazepam, which is want to knock myself out first. I should have done it. I was in absolute turmoil. The mental health system is going to drive me to it if not. I feel so unsafe there. I feel like I'm losing my mind.

Why is it so difficult to get help? Why am I not worth saving to them? I know I'm not. But what is this insanity? This is the UK's NHS. Is it the same elsewhere? How many people must end up forced into choosing CTB?

Where are your family? Are they helping you through this?

 

[Limerance]

That's reassuring, thank you. They tried to discharge me when I said it didn't work and said they'd consider me again if I was in a place to 'make changes' yet had said I engaged and tried hard.

I don't overtly self-harm and don't have issues self-regulating that showed up on the diary cards so we couldn't really isolate any damaging behaviours. The therapist kept saying she didn't understand why our sessions didn't look like everyone else's. She told me 'I'm going to say something you won't like but this would be much easier if you had more friends and family'. Not related to anything, just randomly said in the session.

Soul searched but couldn't find a therapeutic reason for that one and felt like a complete failure as I struggle so much with shame and failure in that area. She then denied it and said she had been talking about a study. Lost all faith and trust at that point.

Tbh I have been looking at things like ketamin therapy. I'm just unsure about availability on the NHS

I think many people here have that issue too. I was very fortunate that I dodged the BPD label but I could feel the therapist thinking it today. I have their psychiatrist's 5 page report stating it is absolutely not BPD at the ready. It is weaponised against us the moment - as you say - we show frustration at the system.

I think you are right. I have felt more validated here than by anyone at that hospital. Feeling suicidal is not an attention seeking behaviour and speaking on it.... it's like taking the pressure off an overboiling pot. Like you, I'm feeling that I may have to stop with trying to engage with mental health services to stop myself from declining any more. Of course, where that will lead... I don't know.

If someone had sat with me and said what you've said here - all of which I agree with and essentially already knew - rather than made me feel I am totally defective and unworthy, I could have walked away without being in complete crisis. How difficult is it to be human? I know the people who suffer the most are often the kindest because they get it. But do you have to have been there to listen to someone talk this way and think, maybe I should show some compassion and understanding? Thank you. You've really helped me this evening. I feel understood.

Well, consider me a friend!

As for therapy, I'd advise against ketamine because of its composition. It can be risky using it without medical advice.

On the other hand, I'd recommend magic shrooms. It's so hard for something to go wrong with them, including side effects or bad trips. Plus, they're statistically safer than even weed. I tend to take them once every other month, and it's really made a difference for at least a week or two afterward.

My last advice, if you don't mind, is to look for another therapist. The thing with therapy is that it's like finding a life partner: not all therapists are good for all patients. Also, remember that even professionals are humans; anyone can make mistakes or be unprepared for something. I've gone to 4 different therapists throughout my life and it's always been different. Try going to every session with a goal in mind.

Taking control of your therapy instead of always letting the therapist lead is a challenge, but it's also a fantastic way to start making the most out of it.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

If you want to be treated like a person, prepare to pay out of pocket. Many of the better hospitals, clinics, etc., no longer accept insurance at all.

Even then that's no guarantee.

 

[FadingShadows]

In the US you not only suffer from shitty mental health services, they force you to PAY for it even if you didn't want it.

Something I found out a few years ago after moving from one state to another, is that in at least some areas, you're further discriminated against if you're low-income or disabled (or both), on Medicaid (for non-US peeps who might not know, that's the medical assistance program run by individual states; there's also Medicare, which is primarily for retirees or people who worked and paid into the system before becoming disabled, but it's possible to receive Medicare if you're a dependent of someone who paid in - I was on straight Medicaid until my mother retired, and then I ended up with Medicare as primary coverage and Medicaid to pick up the rest, and it is NOT an improvement - if I didn't have secondary Medicaid I'd be slapped with high-ass deductibles just like if I if I had "real" insurance, which is sometimes how actual retirees get fucked over, and there was a period when I lost access to some of my medications because they either weren't covered at all (those aren't "old people" drugs!), or just weren't covered in the form I needed them in), and/or receiving care at a federally-funded facility (like some sliding-scale clinics) by being required to undergo labs and tests that would be optional if that weren't the case. I've sat under a sign that says "Patients have the right to refuse...", while being told, "No, since we receive federal funding, you don't get a choice." Basically since you're poor and disabled, you're also stupid, so you need to have things forced on you so they can be caught and treated early, while it's cheaper. (Which makes me wonder if I would have been allowed to refuse treatment if they'd found anything serious - I had to fight hard enough against the stuff that was just a "suggestion".)

And if you're on Medicaid in this state and receiving any kind of mental health care (which I'm not, but I know people who are), you're also required to have a case worker that you're supposed to see...I don't know if weekly is actually the mandate, but it seems like that's what they aim for (though most of the ones here are so flaky and quit or transfer so quickly I can't remember the last time anyone I know even talked about having an appointment, let alone couldn't get out of it), with no consideration for whether you're competent enough to navigate treatment yourself or your condition is one that actively impairs you. Oh, you're poor? You have a disability? You're getting assistance? Doesn't matter if you're just a little depressed or full-on psychotic; you're certainly not capable of following anything through on your own!

No idea how widespread that is (they implemented a Medicaid-in-general case worker system in my home state at one point, but my at-the-time still-sort-of-reasonable mother returned the forms and told them she was already functioning in that capacity for me and it wasn't an issue), and I've had doctors who had similar policies just for themselves, but hearing, "You have to have these whether you want them or not because guv'mint," was not a good time (especially with that kind of shit being, yanno, most of where my freaking PTSD comes from in the first place).

 

[snowcloud9]

Yes, that sounds familiar. Infantilising. Patronising. Interrupt. Talk over you. These are mainly therapists I'm having issues with so perhaps it's them as a breed as I must be honest and give credit to a few really fantastic previous MH workers I've encountered. They seem to be the minority apparently though. I can not imagine the kick in the teeth of having to pay for this insanity. Would be more bearable to burn money.

No, I OD'd in April and had I not backed out for it not being the right time, I could easily have been successful. I just need the diazepam with the zopiclone to drift off first. It's a comfort thing I think. I used to be handed pills easily but now nobody will because I'm high risk. I'm working on getting some and intend to use it also to bring myself down safely when I'm getting bad - until it is definitely time. I am working on a second method - the OD I know can be unreliable but I know I wouldn't be found for a long time if I need it. I want to find something suitable that I can source resources for as my other method. I am unsure how to source the PPeH as I had read it was only available in certain circumstances. It's only very recently I've started to think of things other than OD.

You ever hear the stereotype that everyone who goes into nursing school are mean girl high school bullies? Maybe it's the same in therapists. I hypothesize that people who become therapists have had their own mental health crises in the past, and now they want to pass it along and help others because the system helped them. This Reddit thread seems to suggest that. But what ends up happening is that when people express their terrible experiences with the system and how they don't trust it, these same people don't understand because they've never been that far gone or had a lucky experience. Anyone who cured their mental health issues outside of the system probably isn't going to go back into the same defective system.

Can you tell me more about your experience with meds? I'm worried it will happen to me because my doctor refused me meds for the first time citing that I had to speak the psychiatrist personally and I was so confused.

 

[fwompie]

I feel that they just don't think I'm worth saving. I'm autistic and everything is now put down to that. Eating disorder? Autism. Depression? Autism. Crippling mental health issues? Autism. DBT not being effective? Autism and oh that's definitely your fault because it's a wonderful treatment for autistic individuals. Therefore even though you are in a service for moderate to severe mental health issues so we acknowledge you're a mess, you're out. You're not getting a care coordinator anymore or the opportunity to discuss medications. Tough. They implied I got upset at them trying to discharge because I 'get upset at relationships ending' (IE they want to slap a BPD diagnosis on me despite the psych categorically saying it's not the case) because apparently it's inconceivable to be frustrated that they will just kick you out of treatment when something doesn't work after you've cooperated.

I feel guilty trying to fight for treatment. Like a fraud. Because if I was really struggling, I would just give in. But yesterday I nearly did. I had a rough appointment. So rough. Then a huge argument via text with my one remaining family member who accused me of lying over something I absolutely didn't. I am also coming off Topiramate - I went back on it briefly for migraines but it just doesn't agree with me. I get intensely suicidal and have the worst mood swings. Had I had access to the means - I could have CTB. But I didn't have the diazepam, which is want to knock myself out first. I should have done it. I was in absolute turmoil. The mental health system is going to drive me to it if not. I feel so unsafe there. I feel like I'm losing my mind.

Why is it so difficult to get help? Why am I not worth saving to them? I know I'm not. But what is this insanity? This is the UK's NHS. Is it the same elsewhere? How many people must end up forced into choosing CTB?

It sucks here as well (the Netherlands) though I also believe that in every country you just have to get lucky and find someone who actually cares. This year I had to wait 6 months whilst obviously actively suicidal for just an intake with a psychiatrist. I've only been able to talk with a free counselor in the meantime who put down all of my problems and symptoms to being transgender (which is ridiculous).

Extremely frustrating.

 

[Hotsackage]

there is good therrapy out there, i dont know where u live. but a lot of my coping stuff is self learned, and through mindfulness exercises on youtube

 

[Neraul]

In my experience, this is just very common. It is a lot easier to dismiss (labels, blaming the largely powerless patient, sedating medication, hospital lock-ups, etc.) those labeled with mental problems, especially because on a societal level, that is widely regarded acceptable.

I have extensive experience with the system in Germany, and imo find it horrific. The lack of say you have in your own care is ridiculous.
You'll be too busy 90 % of the time trying to bulldoze your way through rigid interpretations and notions - forget about getting anything done.
At its worst, the risk of being stripped of your autonomy, in so, so many different ways (like lock-up, loss of rights, potentially harmful medication), at least in my experience, is immense.
Yes the access is mostly free (but in reality, you only have access to a very restricted portion of it if you're on public insurance with little money).
This is also, imo, made largely moot by the insane bureaucracy or waiting times you are likely to run into, and be completely at the mercy of.

In the US, I never really had insurance, so could only access free services basically.
They made a much more informed and patient-centered impression, I'm honestly quite upset I didn't engage very much with the first one I used (I kinda just distracted and procrastinated a bunch instead).
Second one was friendly and nice to talk to, but never pushed much from their end - so I mostly felt like I was just talking about my life for up to an hour without much of a structure, plan, therapy approach or w/e.
Never been much of a fan of that type of therapy, but at least it isn't outright hostile.
Bear in mind these US-based experiences are specifically of free/near-free services in extremely liberal areas/cities that're mostly geared towards marginalized populations.

I guess I also had a brief run-in with UK's NHS on the mental side recently. Wrote extensively about that in my Sectioning/Beachy Head-related posts... While I ended up evading the ward, the interactions I did have with the mental staff gave me all the same impressions as usual.
Not really listening, just gunning to shut you down - they were very loose on prescribing strong psych meds like benzos, also p sure some questions they asked, which I always denied, were aimed at trying to diagnose me with whatever.

Overall, at this point I find it easiest to try and manage my mental health on my own terms. Get informed, figure out what works for me individually, and such.
My impression is that the standard system is at best useful for temporary crises of neurotypical people - this would explain to me the inconceivable manner in which many of the mental health professionals I encountered approach or view these issues.
With chronic, deep running stuff I haven't seen anything useful yet, despite extensive contact (minus that one I didn't really engage with, there might have been promise there)
What's important to remember is that mental health isn't really as much of a hard science, or very well/much researched at all.
It's just a societal concept, and has many roots in abuse against marginalized people (like pathologizing women/lgbt ppl), so I wouldn't see it as a be-all-end all or anything.

You've had some wide-spread experience - a dubious honour for you I'm sure! But how very demoralising that, for the most part, it all seems to be so poor. I'm sorry you've had to deal with that and I'll have a look at your writings about sectioning. I have never been sectioned, nor been admitted. They don't want to do that given my autism and it's the one thing I mostly agree with. I do see people documenting their experiences on tiktok and it seems like it would drive me further to despair and suicide. Obviously we are biased to share negative experiences as a whole but I haven't seen much positive at all.
I like how you describe it as a societal concept and it's something I've been thinking about recently as I consider extracting myself from the system. Thank you for sharing :)

Where are your family? Are they helping you through this?

I more or less have none. I have a friend and their partner, who are amazing but I truly can't burden them with everything. As it is, the only reason I am still here is that they listen to me and come to some appointments.
I have one parent left, who essentially knows nothing (I know they do know I struggle but they won't even say the words 'mental health' and when I have tried to test the water and open up, they don't really want to know. From a different era entirely. Currently isn't speaking to me at all.
A huge part of the problem is lack of support system. But I am asexual and aromantic, definitely not a youngster now (so very sure of my identity not changing and therefore not creating a family myself) and autistic. Added to the family breakdown, breakdown of my best friend who was enormously supportive and we were just in eachother's lives all the time until they 'became jealous' I managed to make another friend (their words), it's a bit of a perfect storm. I don't have purpose. I am defective. I could probably recover if I had family. Not to dismiss what I have as they are utterly wonderful. But you simply can't put everything on to the same people. They will burn out. So my head is left with the fallout



Also I'm extremely sorry that I'm multi quoting - I have tried everything to make it stop, refreshed the page, deleted and edited... I'm definitely only hitting reply to one person at a time and the reply box is completely clear when I start to type!

Well, consider me a friend!

As for therapy, I'd advise against ketamine because of its composition. It can be risky using it without medical advice.

On the other hand, I'd recommend magic shrooms. It's so hard for something to go wrong with them, including side effects or bad trips. Plus, they're statistically safer than even weed. I tend to take them once every other month, and it's really made a difference for at least a week or two afterward.

My last advice, if you don't mind, is to look for another therapist. The thing with therapy is that it's like finding a life partner: not all therapists are good for all patients. Also, remember that even professionals are humans; anyone can make mistakes or be unprepared for something. I've gone to 4 different therapists throughout my life and it's always been different. Try going to every session with a goal in mind.

Taking control of your therapy instead of always letting the therapist lead is a challenge, but it's also a fantastic way to start making the most out of it.

Thanks :)

I'm sheltered - how would I take them? I haven't even tried weed but have also been wondering if that would take the edge off things. A week or two is really significant - is it a gradual or a sharp return to normality for you? I'd love to hear about your experience.

Ah I'd love to look for a new therapist but currently I'm at the will of the NHS and have to take theirs. It's 'skills based' so they aren't as common as general therapists I suppose. I am however, thinking of shopping around for a general therapist who might fit me better. You're right of course - I'm going back next week to find out if they think they can offer me this therapy and will reassess. I was not in the greatest of mental states at the time.


Also I'm extremely sorry that I'm multi quoting - I have tried everything to make it stop, refreshed the page, deleted and edited... I'm definitely only hitting reply to one person at a time and the reply box is completely clear when I start to type!

 

[Neraul]

You ever hear the stereotype that everyone who goes into nursing school are mean girl high school bullies? Maybe it's the same in therapists. I hypothesize that people who become therapists have had their own mental health crises in the past, and now they want to pass it along and help others because the system helped them. This Reddit thread seems to suggest that. But what ends up happening is that when people express their terrible experiences with the system and how they don't trust it, these same people don't understand because they've never been that far gone or had a lucky experience. Anyone who cured their mental health issues outside of the system probably isn't going to go back into the same defective system.

Can you tell me more about your experience with meds? I'm worried it will happen to me because my doctor refused me meds for the first time citing that I had to speak the psychiatrist personally and I was so confused.

You ever hear the stereotype that everyone who goes into nursing school are mean girl high school bullies? Maybe it's the same in therapists. I hypothesize that people who become therapists have had their own mental health crises in the past, and now they want to pass it along and help others because the system helped them. This Reddit thread seems to suggest that. But what ends up happening is that when people express their terrible experiences with the system and how they don't trust it, these same people don't understand because they've never been that far gone or had a lucky experience. Anyone who cured their mental health issues outside of the system probably isn't going to go back into the same defective system.

Can you tell me more about your experience with meds? I'm worried it will happen to me because my doctor refused me meds for the first time citing that I had to speak the psychiatrist personally and I was so confused.

I can imagine that being true. The type of person who 'has anxiety', accesses primary wellbeing services, does (and loves) mindfulness, perhaps took some sertraline or citalopram for a few months and wants to use their experience to help others... is then faced with Mental Illness ™, the unsuitability of the system to cope with it and is unable to relate.
I'm now going to spend my appointments wondering whether they wore pink on Wednesdays at school!

For years, I was handed PRN meds freely such as diazepam, lorazepam and zopiclone. At most, during my low points, the GP would ask if I was an OD risk and I would simply say no. I wasn't, to be fair, it hadn't really been a consideration for me. I didn't take them much and so had accumulated lots. I started to consciously stockpile them. Now, these meds are an absolute no go for anybody to give me.

WRT meds such as anti depressants - I am currently prescribed vortioxetine but don't take it because apparently I'm incapable of doing anything that may benefit me/am scared It will pull my mood up enough for me to still be miserable but no longer suicidal, losing my lifeline - the GP will absolutely not touch me. He has stated in appointments that it must be done through the MH hospital and actually I believe he did this prior to my OD also. I assume the rationale is that if you are severe enough to be under the specialists, then it is the specialists who must take responsibility for your meds. On the surface, this is all well and good. In reality, however, I have had my care coordinator taken from me without explanation and therefore have no point of contact to ask for a medication review. The medication review must be requested and then an appointment made with the psychiatrist to undertake it. The psychiatrist has been fine when I've had them but it is a pain to access it when barriers are put in your way. For me it is likely another step
In the road to them getting me discharged as they don't want me accessing meds through them but I am unsure why it could be for you.

Has anything happened for your doctor to change their mind about meds? It would be unusual to suddenly stop without an incident or a change in policy I'd imagine.

 

[snowcloud9]

Has anything happened for your doctor to change their mind about meds? It would be unusual to suddenly stop without an incident or a change in policy I'd imagine.

Got in trouble trying to source meds specifically for OD, got hospitalized and apparently it's all on my chart. Around the same time my old doctor transferred somewhere else, so I got a new doctor. Not sure if this will become a pattern, I hope it's just exclusive with that one doctor.

 

[UKscotty]

I personally think the opposite, that it is unfair to blame the NHS and the people in there who try to help.

I know a fair few people in a professional capacity, not as a patient and almost all try their best to help and care.

The issue is that there really is just very little anyone can do. The mind is not well understood, and now drug companies love to have people diagnosed with countless made up conditions.

Go back 20 years and half these so called MH conditions did not exist, and people were much happier.

 

[Neraul]

Got in trouble trying to source meds specifically for OD, got hospitalized and apparently it's all on my chart. Around the same time my old doctor transferred somewhere else, so I got a new doctor. Not sure if this will become a pattern, I hope it's just exclusive with that one doctor.

Ah, yeah. I'd imagine that may be the norm now, depending on how things work where you are. Just a bit of a waiting game really to see how they react to you now