Is not clear to me why I live

[whatevs]

I think there is a consistent sense of dread attaching me to life, even though I dislike it to a large extent. I dread dying, like all living things, but I see life as something suspect. The food chain and the way society is managed give reality away.

If you are a materialist you'll say that it's unfortunate that chaos assembled itself into this, if you are more teleological you'll say life seems to be a trap or a fall from a better state. Either way I often shake off the drunkness I acquire working or masturbating (living, insert anything engrossing) and give in to this perfectly rational sentiment that I don't have a robust motivation for existing outside of fear of death.

Today during lunch my 61yo father commented on death approaching and I thought about this. My default response is that I know for a fact there's an indestructible part in us that existed before birth and goes on after death, but he commented that the individual surely dies. Then I thought that I too fear death but to be honest, life is pretty crap. I didn't want to talk about this with him but I thought that overall I don't really value life much, I just faintly want to protect my life out of instinct.

 

[OverBeforeStart]

Whoever has overcome his fear of death has also triumphed over life. For life is nothing but another word for this fear. - Cioran.
a quote I like.

 

[whatevs]

Whoever has overcome his fear of death has also triumphed over life. For life is nothing but another word for this fear. - Cioran.
a quote I like.

I read some of Cioran but at the time he seemed too pessimistic for me - a pessimist myself lol

Life is just a motion that moves because it likes moving, but for those of us that inexplicably ask for a reason for the movement that's not enough.

I have literally become the protagonist of the existentialist books I read in adolescence.

 

[rationaltake]

I have no idea why I'm still alive. The cards were truly stacked against me since conception or even before. I'm old and my life has deteriorated so much I'm barely human. My whole life has been a struggle and the best I've ever managed is a parody or an approximation of the life I wanted to lead. So it's never been good.

Some people consider suicide because they cannot accept or refuse to accept their personal circumstances. I identity with this.

I wish I'd been born into the fortunate privileged minority. Those who were raised by reasonably good parents in reasonably good economic circumstances. Who also have good health and mental stability. The lottery winners. Lives where the good outweighs the bad.

There are people who want to live. There is the argument that people who want to live are delusional and are duped by false hope because life is generally bad and can get worse at any moment.

This argument falls apart because it assumes that people in general are like some of us on here endlessly discussing the ins and out of life and whether there is any purpose to it all. News flash! Lots of people just get on with their lives. They follow the program unquestioningly and just take life as it comes. They can't be considered delusional if they're not even thinking about it at all.

That's where cultural conditioning comes in. People with good families and social connections learn to fit in especially if they have economic security. Good physical and mental health also help. Those people are less likely to question things.

A lot of us on here are lacking in one or more of these aspects and that's why we're more likely to question or even reject life. It would be unthinkable for a lot of people to stay in bed all day like I do. Routine, guilt, family pressure would all kick in.

Society is run by the fortunate and their attitudes prevail. That's why the suicidal feel marginalised and excluded.

There are also people who decide to live for the moment. Seize the day. I can relate to that.

I haven't even touched on considerations about the state of the world or the big question about the meaning of life.

 

[needforvoid_]

I feel like there is/was a potential in me. I don't mean a potential to be rich, successful, good looking or similar. A potential to be happy. In peace, content, whatever. I'm not sure what it is, I don't know what it would feel like, I just think I experience life differently. I can't really enjoy little things, there's a burden that I want to get off. I don't know what that is either. I'm annoyed and tired, but if only the weight could slip off I'd be fine. I don't know if it will ever, when do I give up, nobody can tell me. That's what's keeping me. I know I'll die one day anyway, it's the feelings that are keeping me, that's not something rational, but it feels real. I don't know if I will give up. You know there are ppl that I think are half-faking it, they make their life experience seem better than it is, self-brainwashed. But then there are some I see that seem geniuinely good. It doesn't seem to me that fear is making them live, they're delusional, unaware death could be around a corner. It seems like they are just having a good time and they look so free to me.

 

[OverBeforeStart]

I read some of Cioran but at the time he seemed too pessimistic for me - a pessimist myself lol

Life is just a motion that moves because it likes moving, but for those of us that inexplicably ask for a reason for the movement that's not enough.

I have literally become the protagonist of the existentialist books I read in adolescence.

I don't force myself to embrace any body's view exactly as they have it. I can't exist with Cioran's and other's pessimism any way. I'd fall into despair and kill myself right away. I also need a reason and a positive motive to do anything, even if the positive is actually negative. to free myself as much as I can from this trap before my time is up.

 

[whatevs]

I feel like there is/was a potential in me. I don't mean a potential to be rich, successful, good looking or similar. A potential to be happy. In peace, content, whatever. I'm not sure what it is, I don't know what it would feel like, I just think I experience life differently. I can't really enjoy little things, there's a burden that I want to get off. I don't know what that is either. I'm annoyed and tired, but if only the weight could slip off I'd be fine. I don't know if it will ever, when do I give up, nobody can tell me. That's what's keeping me. I know I'll die one day anyway, it's the feelings that are keeping me, that's not something rational, but it feels real. I don't know if I will give up. You know there are ppl that I think are half-faking it, they make their life experience seem better than it is, self-brainwashed. But then there are some I see that seem geniuinely good. It doesn't seem to me that fear is making them live, they're delusional, unaware death could be around a corner. It seems like they are just having a good time and they look so free to me.

It feels like we are lacking something that is even more important than money, success or even health. I have some crippling health conditions, but my mother told me about how from an early age I would talk about dying or just denote a highly pessimistic outlook.

Like you, I have never felt at ease existing and it's gotten worse overtime to the point that I am both repulsed and attracted by eating, sex, society. It's been a nightmare. A painful ambivalence. I have read many books, but for me the person that put this in a way that was more expressive was Chester Bennington in an interview some time before killing himself.

 

[rationaltake]

Whoever has overcome his fear of death has also triumphed over life. For life is nothing but another word for this fear. - Cioran.
a quote I like.

I like it too. I've never read Cioran but like the French existentialists.

Life is just a motion that moves because it likes moving, but for those of us that inexplicably ask for a reason for the movement that's not enough.

Eloquently put. And that's the question. Why do some of us ask for a reason?

I have literally become the protagonist of the existentialist books I read in adolescence.

Me too!

 

[Ligottian]

If reading something is going to send you over the edge, you better stay away from Ligotti's The Conspiracy Against the Human Race!

 

[whatevs]

If reading something is going to send you over the edge, you better stay away from Ligotti's The Conspiracy Against the Human Race!

I started that book some years ago but didn't follow through. Actually, 'depressing' cultural products like emo music or books like these make me feel slightly better, never worse, granted that I enjoy them artistically.

 

[rationaltake]

I feel like there is/was a potential in me. I don't mean a potential to be rich, successful, good looking or similar. A potential to be happy. In peace, content, whatever. I'm not sure what it is, I don't know what it would feel like, I just think I experience life differently. I can't really enjoy little things, there's a burden that I want to get off. I don't know what that is either. I'm annoyed and tired, but if only the weight could slip off I'd be fine. I don't know if it will ever, when do I give up, nobody can tell me. That's what's keeping me. I know I'll die one day anyway, it's the feelings that are keeping me, that's not something rational, but it feels real. I don't know if I will give up. You know there are ppl that I think are half-faking it, they make their life experience seem better than it is, self-brainwashed. But then there are some I see that seem geniuinely good. It doesn't seem to me that fear is making them live, they're delusional, unaware death could be around a corner. It seems like they are just having a good time and they look so free to me.

It feels like we are lacking something that is even more important than money, success or even health. I have some crippling health conditions, but my mother told me about how from an early age I would talk about dying or just denote a highly pessimistic outlook.

Like you, I have never felt at ease existing and it's gotten worse overtime to the point that I am both repulsed and attracted by eating, sex, society. It's been a nightmare. A painful ambivalence. I have read many books, but for me the person that put this in a way that was more expressive was Chester Bennington in an interview some time before killing himself.

I've never felt like a participant in the world. It's the difference between doing and observing. My mind buffers me from everyday life.

I'm not genuinely and unambiguously invested in life to the point where I don't even need to think about it.

I was never socialised as a child and only have a thin veneer of cultural inhibitions. It's not surprising I don't fit in. Especially as I have severe mental health conditions.

 

[OverBeforeStart]

If reading something is going to send you over the edge, you better stay away from Ligotti's The Conspiracy Against the Human Race!

Read the original writers quoted in that book instead including Peter Zapffe. I went down that rabbit hole in my mid 20s and almost did go over the edge. Mainly because I was extremely alienated from the time and place I was born in and looking for answers, not just because I read something. I spent my 20s as a walking existential catastrophe.

 

[whatevs]

I've never felt like a participant in the world. It's the difference between doing and observing. My mind buffers me from everyday life.

I'm not genuinely and unambiguously invested in life to the point where I don't even need to think about it.

I was never socialised as a child and only have a thin veneer of cultural inhibitions. It's not surprising I don't fit in. Especially as I have severe mental health conditions.

It's funny because to me we seem to be inches away from what illumination is supposed to be but we just stay despondent and miserable. Looking at life from the outside seems like a close cousin to what illumination has been described as being, some kind of global awareness. Though perhaps we are lacking the fundamental ingredient: looking at life from all directions, including as a participant, not just as a questioner, as an outsider.

 

[rationaltake]

My default response is that I know for a fact there's an indestructible part in us that existed before birth and goes on after death

How did you reach this conclusion?

It's funny because to me we seem to be inches away from what illumination is supposed to be but we just stay despondent and miserable. Looking at life from the outside seems like a close cousin to what illumination has been described as being, some kind of global awareness. Though perhaps we are lacking the fundamental ingredient: looking at life from all directions, including as a participant, not just as a questioner, as an outsider.

True. I think enlightenment entails a sense of oneness. Being linked with all beings.

Bipolar high was like this. It didn't last but I kept it going for three years once.

 

[whatevs]

How did you reach this conclusion?

Schopenhauer, Parmenides. Everything comes from something. There's an inmortal will behind creation. Nothingness doesn't and cannot exist. Also life doesn't have the semblance of something that is accidental, but rather it looks like something that requires an amazing juxtaposition of conditions. Normally we assign intention to things like that.

So I'm definitely not a materialist but my spiritual beliefs are too vague to make life meaningful. I'm just pretty sure something that has intention remains after death and that this world isn't what materialists OR most religious people propose.

 

[Ligottian]

I started that book some years ago but didn't follow through. Actually, 'depressing' cultural products like emo music or books like these make me feel slightly better, never worse, granted that I enjoy them artistically.

I'm the same way.

 

[rationaltake]

Schopenhauer, Parmenides. Everything comes from something. There's an inmortal will behind creation. Nothingness doesn't and cannot exist. Also life doesn't have the semblance of something that is accidental, but rather it looks like something that requires an amazing juxtaposition of conditions. Normally we assign intention to things like that.

So I'm definitely not a materialist but my spiritual beliefs are too vague to make life meaningful. I'm just pretty sure something that has intention remains after death and that this world isn't what materialists OR most religious people propose.

I understand from my own experience how appearances can be deceptive. As a child I always wondered what it would be like to see the world through somebody else's eyes. Would I even recognise anything? Would it look like an alien landscape?

"Everything comes from something" rules out an original creator. A cosmic circle-jerk then?

So the same intention that animates each human - or each living being - is the same intention that animates the universe - or the multiverse?

I don't know how valid personal spiritual experiences are - in the sense that they are products of the mind and can therefore be deceptive. I've had out of the body episodes. But then I'm dissociative.

I'm just thinking out loud. I'm not attached to any particular view. Not even the Buddhist one.