Is morality just an illusion?

[SilentSadness]

No one has or would choose to be brought into existence, so there is an argument to be made that you cannot be blamed for anything. If someone starving in the wilderness cannot be blamed for killing a rabbit then why should a politician be blamed for lying to try and find happiness for themselves. The common agreement here is that people on this forum are a lot sadder than everyone else but in truth everyone experiences an unbearable amount of suffering at some point whether you're suicidal or not. If morality is an illusion, then this means that torturers are no less moral than charitable people which seems counter intuitive but the people harming others are usually victims of childhoods and lives no one should have to go through. If morality doesn't exist then there can't be a meaning to anything and it seems no matter what you do you are never in the right. All in all I can never seem to rationalise many of the beliefs which underpin society, so maybe I am the problem for being delusional.

 

[jodes2]

Fuck politicians. They're too often immoral cunts. Hunting a rabbit if you're starving is completely different. Politicians can be fucking greedy cunts. But many people just do their best to survive without harming others as far as possible. Morality is real, and some people have very fucking questionable morality. Putin and his cronies have stashed way trillions, siphoned off in various unethical ways. To give you an idea of how much money that is, if you stacked £10 notes absolutely flat, they would reach the bloody moon. No-one, no-one, deserves that much wealth let alone by hook and crook. Fuck the evil cunts

 

[vcnt]

No, your very first statement is incorrect, you can be blamed for doing something even after something that was out of your control happened to you.
I am very much responsible to not hurt people just because i was hurt by something or someone, your fundamental argument isn't sound.

 

[Fwompje]

No one has or would choose to be brought into existence, so there is an argument to be made that you cannot be blamed for anything. If someone starving in the wilderness cannot be blamed for killing a rabbit then why should a politician be blamed for lying to try and find happiness for themselves. The common agreement here is that people on this forum are a lot sadder than everyone else but in truth everyone experiences an unbearable amount of suffering at some point whether you're suicidal or not. If morality is an illusion, then this means that torturers are no less moral than charitable people which seems counter intuitive but the people harming others are usually victims of childhoods and lives no one should have to go through. If morality doesn't exist then there can't be a meaning to anything and it seems no matter what you do you are never in the right. All in all I can never seem to rationalise many of the beliefs which underpin society, so maybe I am the problem for being delusional.

Morality is a very interesting topic with two extremes. In the end life is meaningless, we're all here by a miniscule chance in existance which in itself is so absurd. When we die we will just be flesh and bones, so it doesn't matter whatever we do in the meantime, we all end up the same sooner or later.

That said, it's a different situation when somebody has a differen philosphy; someone who likes life, wants to do good things, etc. This topic would definitely upset them and they would never understan. I think their philosphy is empty. Yet I also try and hurt as few people as possible,, Every day I wake up with a consience and it does drive me to do things which are percieved as "right".

Life is weird and nobody knows the actual answers, those who claim they do are the dumbest among us.

 

[vcnt]

Morality is a very interesting topic with two extremes. In the end life is meaningless, we're all here by a miniscule chance in existance which in itself is so absurd. When we die we will just be flesh and bones, so it doesn't matter whatever we do in the meantime, we all end up the same sooner or later.

That said, it's a different situation when somebody has a differen philosphy; someone who likes life, wants to do good things, etc. This topic would definitely upset them and they would never understan. I think their philosphy is empty.

Life is weird and nobody knows the actual answers, those who claim they do are the dumbest among us.

There is no reason that life being meaningless is bad thing, why does life need a meaning?

 

[Darkover]

it's impossible to exist without being forced into existance without your consent first something must bring you alive then get your consent, i would choose to exist if i know i'd have a good life but life is down to random chance , there is no right and wrong in the eyes of atoms there just doing there thing, but to a conscious being that feels there is clearly a right vs wrong or good vs bad, its wrong to cause someone harm and it's good to make someone feel better, the universe is meaningless i mean at an monent a asteroid could wipe out all life on this planet and there would be nothing anyone could do to stop it, our existence is completely pointless here, everything we do is all for nothing just a complete waste of time, nothing here last everything here breaks down or decays i am sure we are already in hell

 

[Fwompje]

There is no reason that life being meaningless is bad thing, why does life need a meaning?

Exactly, each one of us can give it meaning individually but that would still be meaningless. A bit nihillistic but the fact that it all doesn't mean anything brings me comfort.

 

[Source Energy]

there is no one out there to judge us. The Universe is impartial. That being said, you should still want to be a good person, aka treat others the way you want to be treated.
What do you mean by morality? The good versus bad code in the eyes of others, or your own conscience? They're mostly the same - don't do bad things to others if you can absolutely avoid. (Not talking about getting food, but in general. )If you choose to do so, because hey nothing matters, then you contribute to the reason why life sux and so many people want to ctb.
Nihilism doesn't give you green light to be an ss ( not saying that you are, referring to the subject on hand).

 

[SilentSadness]

If you choose to do so, because hey nothing matters, then you contribute to the reason why life sux and so many people want to ctb.

It's impossible to reliably predict the consequences of your actions. Often they have the exact opposite effect to your intention. There's also no reliable criteria for what you shouldn't do. Should you kill a person who is suffering? Many people think you're evil for doing so and many others think you're evil not to. If I had children, I would be bringing suffering into the world but there's no reason why they couldn't alleviate suffering in the future proportionate to their suffering. It seems to me that no matter what I do I am just a pawn of the cards life sends my way.

 

[death137]

I think one big reason that debunk the existence of morality is that everyone is 100% selfish. Some ppl want to satisfy their desire by helping others while some ppl want to satisfy their desire by killing others. Also the same person may desire to help or kill others in different periods. If you are someone who believes in psychological egoism then there is no difference between helping or killing since both are done for selfish reasons. But I understand that it's common for most if not all of us to see things as morally good or bad even if you believe that objective morality doesn't exist.

 

[screw]

In my view, morality is a system we have created for ourselves in order to reduce undue suffering. Most of our morals align with this schema, such as do not murder, steal, etc, as those are to cause undue suffering should they be permitted society-wide. Where this goes wrong is our views on suicide and abortion, which are justified through subjective, unproven means. Sometimes incredibly blatantly so; I remember the governor of Texas mentioning "God's will" as a factor in his decision making in terms of reducing access to abortion.

 

[hellispink]

humans have no sense of morality.

 

[Next-to-Nil]

Morality is subjective in the best of times, trolly problem, yadda yadda...

 

[Forever Sleep]

I thought about this kind of question the other day. I wondered where morals come from. I would argue that to a larger extent- we are taught what's right and wrong by our care givers and society at large- so- to this degree, I'd say- yes- morals are an illusion- they have been created to try and ensure harmony amongst a fundamentally selfish species. That's more the nitty gritty rules of it though- be polite- say please and thank you, hold the door open for someone etc.

However- there are people (Richard Dawkins) who argue that along with our selfish genes- we have also evolved altruistic genes. Makes sense really- we live in large communities. Perhaps it helps us to help one another rather than be in constant competition.

If altruism and empathy can be inherited- these are surely the precursors for morals. I think morals can INDEED develop out of empathy and altruism- I'll treat this person kindly and I'll do my best to be a good person in the hopes that everyone is doing the same type of thing. In this way- maybe some of us at least are wired to become moral.

 

[MrShino]

I definitively believe morality is real. But it must have an objective source imo, either from natural laws or from God. If not then it is just a complicated sense developed through evolution for the progression of the species and as such only an arbitrary function and not real in any objective sense. We know this intuitively.. that something is right and something is wrong. We do not always see the end results of either choice though.

 

[FuneralCry]

The whole concept of morality, I believe is a result of humans having awareness and maybe it's a way to try to gain control over the chaotic nature of life, where we only exist as a consequence of evolution and where chance determines everything. So I do certainly believe that it's an illusion rather than something that is objective, it's something that is created by humans. But still, I don't believe that this gives humans the right to cause unnecessary suffering, and harm others according to their liking, creating more torment could never be justified. In comparison, there is no morality within animals as they just act in a way in which to benefit their survival.

 

[whytry]

Morality is a very interesting topic with two extremes. In the end life is meaningless, we're all here by a miniscule chance in existance which in itself is so absurd. When we die we will just be flesh and bones, so it doesn't matter whatever we do in the meantime, we all end up the same sooner or later.

That said, it's a different situation when somebody has a differen philosphy; someone who likes life, wants to do good things, etc. This topic would definitely upset them and they would never understan. I think their philosphy is empty. Yet I also try and hurt as few people as possible,, Every day I wake up with a consience and it does drive me to do things which are percieved as "right".

Life is weird and nobody knows the actual answers, those who claim they do are the dumbest among us.

I've discussed the purpose and meaning of suffering many a time and the conclusion is simple. There's is none. Life is simply suffering. My question is how long must we be made to suffer. And what is so immoral about wanting to end the suffering? I did not choose this life. Sure I have chosen what to do with it. But alas I've come to a point when all I feel is pain and sadness. It feels immoral to allow such suffering to continue. I guess the morality lies in what you leave behind. The people left to suffer your absence?

 

[MrShino]

I've discussed the purpose and meaning of suffering many a time and the conclusion is simple. There's is none. Life is simply suffering. My question is how long must we be made to suffer. And what is so immoral about wanting to end the suffering? I did not choose this life. Sure I have chosen what to do with it. But alas I've come to a point when all I feel is pain and sadness. It feels immoral to allow such suffering to continue. I guess the morality lies in what you leave behind. The people left to suffer your absence?

Life is surely more than suffering, although it is suffering also. I understand why you feel this way, but this is your current experience clouding your perceptions. To be honest we must admit that there is both beauty and suffering, good and bad. I'm sorry you are in that place, though, but it will pass eventually.

 

[Fwompje]

I've discussed the purpose and meaning of suffering many a time and the conclusion is simple. There's is none. Life is simply suffering. My question is how long must we be made to suffer. And what is so immoral about wanting to end the suffering? I did not choose this life. Sure I have chosen what to do with it. But alas I've come to a point when all I feel is pain and sadness. It feels immoral to allow such suffering to continue. I guess the morality lies in what you leave behind. The people left to suffer your absence?

Very well put. And does the suffering of the people left behind compare to your own suffering? That's the question which there's no answer to. We will never feel exactly what someone else feels.

 

[whytry]

Life is surely more than suffering, although it is suffering also. I understand why you feel this way, but this is your current experience clouding your perceptions. To be honest we must admit that there is both beauty and suffering, good and bad. I'm sorry you are in that place, though, but it will pass eventually.it passes only to retu

It passes, only to return again. I'm exhausted.