Is life evil/wrong?

[Darkover]

We have a finite lifespan that is full of suffering. Yes we can pass our stories on to future generations but why? What's the point? How do we deal with the burden of a meaningless existence? Would we be better off not existing so as to spare ourselves from such meaninglessness? Would the universe be a better place without life?

livings things kill each other competing for food, competing for a mate, or simply out of unreasoning rage. The human race is supposed to be "intelligent," but we are the cruelest most degenerate species of them all. This simple fact is so awful and horrible that many people don't believe in God because of it. And, of course, all living things wear out and die eventually. Even those who claim to have hope don't really have hope because of the inevitability of Death.

 

[BrokenJesus]

Life is good - for some. For those that are thriving, winning at our expense, stealing our food, our mates, unleashing their rage at us when they see fit... life is likely a wonder. Here, on the losing side, all we can do is dream of the success they enjoy everyday.

Life, and nature as a whole, is beyond good and evil, right or wrong. It existed before we come up with these ideas. Life is more like a great darwinian funnel, ceassesly working to set apart wheat from weed, grinding mercilessly the uncapable to dust and sparing those that adapt to the constant selective pressure

 

[AkaRed]

I really struggle to understand the point of anything. In the grander scheme, this is a cruel, cruel world.
Sure it isn't always all horrific but it feels like the mentioned 'good' things about existence are mere temporary distractions to cope and survive as we were designed to do.

Ignorance truly is a bliss, and many people within our population are thriving in it.

I feel that it's people who break free from their ignorance, and begin to take in the scope of their reality- come to these places to seek solace and others who are the same. Because truthfully, it is a heavy burden to hold.

Everyone's situation has its unique aspects, but we are binded by the fears we hold of what surrounds us- and the inevitability of our demise. How meaningless it all is, and how captive we are in this reality so long as we open our eyes.

<3

 

[TotallyTerrible]

This video has an eloquent way of explaining it.

 

[UKscotty]

Depends on perspective I guess. For most people, life is amazing and to he cherished.

When we have depression it makes it impossible to see anything good and we wrongly assume all life is suffering.

 

[NeverGonnaEscape]

Life isn't really wrong or evil it's just a complicated chemical process. Consciousness is what leads to suffering, and consciousness itself is probably just an accidental emerging property of having brains that process and connect lot of data. Even then, it's not hard to imagine a conscious species that is completely impervious to suffering. If your brain wasn't capable of a mode that says "Suffering is going on" then you could never suffer no matter what was happening externally.

I don't think this question really has an answer on the larger scale, and that you have to take some subset of living organisms capable of suffering, a subset small enough that you can maths things out, and figure out whether there is too much suffering to justify continued existence.

 

[Darkover]

For most people, life is amazing and to he cherished.

so you think people with mental health problems think life is amazing which accounts for 16 percent of the population 1.28billion people
or do you think people who go hungry each day think life is amazing which accounts for 12 percent of the population 1 billion people
or do you think people who have cancer which is 6 percent of the population think life is amazing 480 million people
i could go on listening even more things the population has to deal with on a daily basis but for now at least 34 percent of the population
don't think life is amazing

how many people in the world have a physical disability i am willing to guess at least 6 percent which is another 480 million people to add to the list that don't think life is amazing

 

[Eudaimonic]

consciousness itself is probably just an accidental emerging property of having brains that process and connect lot of data.

Somewhat doubt this. Firstly, because consciousness, subjectivity, and phenomenal binding are wholly different than anything we know of; phenomenal properties arise from discrete non-phenomenal physical structures and somehow cohere. And secondly, because consciousness appears to have causal efficacy. Epiphenomenalism is wrong, IMO. If consciousness lacks causal efficacy, why are we not all p-zombies?

I don't think this question really has an answer on the larger scale, and that you have to take some subset of living organisms capable of suffering, a subset small enough that you can maths things out, and figure out whether there is too much suffering to justify continued existence.

I don't think one can do hedonic calculus or something akin to that even on a small scale. It's not clear how pains and pleasures can be added.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Not sure the absence of life would be experienced as being 'better'. It wouldn't be experienced at all. But, I can completely understand the desire to end a life full of suffering.

Really though, we won't entirely know whether we will experience suffering until we actually live. I can't predict what will happen for any of us next week. For some, maybe something good will happen that makes them grateful to experience life. More likely the reverse in our cases but, who knows?

As to whether the universe would be better off without life, I have no idea. Do you suppose the universe is capable of having feelings or emotions? Do you suppose there's an end goal to all of this? Is it aiming for something by having life here?

I get the sense more that it's all unconscious and motivated by chance. It's sentient creatures that assign 'good' and 'bad' descriptions to things and- we can't even agree on that! 'One man's nightmare is another man's dream.'

Life and especially sentient life is simply the arena in which these things play out. It probably depends on just how good or bad your life is as to whether you think it should even be allowed.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

We humans overthink too much. We don't know why we became so much conscious. We could use the consciousness wiser but we don't - yet, we don't.

To fight for the right to live is natural that's nothing, it's a natural instinct. Probably we humans are sth in between what we (using our consciousness) would consider wise how we should act but we don't yet. We simply a product of what is possible in the universe.

If such thoughts about or existence drives us crazy we should not really think about it bc we cannot change it in any way.

Whether life is evil/wrong may forever be unanswered. It's obviously a necessary thing that can happen in our universe - and probably this happened at least once in each existing galaxy. But due to the physics we will never know! Perhaps for a reason.

 

[Time4Peace]

My take is that this is some sort of a simulation / dream like state. Basically, someone went full retard, thinking there is MOAR GAINZ. Never go full retard.

Look around you and tell me if you really see love or cruelty.

 

[FuneralCry]

Yes, existence is an abomination that is evil as it's the source of all suffering. It's a horrific tragedy to me how life exists when nobody can suffer at all from the absence of everything. Existing truly is just nothing more than meaningless and unnecessary suffering and in my case I'd certainly always prefer to not exist.
I'd see it as better that existence is erased, life never should have existed at all, existence serves no purpose other than to create immense harm and torment existing beings all while they are just waiting to die anyway. The amount of unnecessary and senseless cruelty, agony and torture in this reality is simply beyond comprehension.

 

[mrnamoshi]

Anything causing suffering is evil

 

[Time4Peace]

See you on the other side, where there is ego and everything is love! <3

 

[OCDsufferer]

I believe life to be inherently morally neutral. Some suffer, some don't. Some things can be controlled by the individual, other's can't. Tons of problems are because of rules people believe to be set in stone when they aren't. You yourself mention finding a mate, what that means to anyone reading it depends on their background but to me it means to find someone to pro-create with, that's something that's no inherent to humans and to those that do wish to find a "mate" how they go about it can be evil in your eyes or not. Therefore life in it's basest form is morally neutral.

 

[Darkover]

I believe life to be inherently morally neutral

yeah like a predator food chain is neutral, not evil at all forcing everything to kill to survive is completely neutral

 

[OCDsufferer]

yeah like a predator food chain is neutral, not evil at all forcing everything to kill to survive is completely neutral

You do not have to kill to survive however, we have very much proven humans can be vegetarian or even vegan. To insistitute morals on things that change faster than the wind is a faux pas in my opinion.

 

[Time4Peace]

yeah like a predator food chain is neutral, not evil at all forcing everything to kill to survive is completely neutral

True. This is just physics, survival of the fittest. Lust masked as love, lies masked as honesty. I wish ppl would be just honest that they are complete shit, instead of faking and excusing themselves.

 

[thenamingofcats]

yeah like a predator food chain is neutral, not evil at all forcing everything to kill to survive is completely neutral

The reason why it's seen as neutral is because the animals in the system lack self awareness and act on impulse, not cruelty or maliciousness.
Some believe don't believe in god because they're not wired to believe and started out that way. It's not always people losing their faith because of bad things in the world.

 

[LevUwU]

Evil is such a broad concept. To put simply, I define evil as anything which outputs more pain than pleasure, give or take with other factors. So, life is chaotic neutral, able to be good for some and evil for others. Like a animal choosing to bite or purr.

 

[Darkover]

The reason why it's seen as neutral is because the animals in the system lack self awareness and act on impulse, not cruelty or maliciousness.

a neutral universe wouldn't force animals to kill each other to survive,

 

[thenamingofcats]

a neutral universe wouldn't force animals to kill each other to survive,

I don't see how this would be possible.

 

[Alexander Neumann]

I think the universe wasn't suppose to create life. Before life existed, the objects in the universe felt completely "detached." What I'm trying to say is that the actions an object did amounted to zero. They would come into existence, and then disappear, without having instincts or cognitions. Life on the other hand, took so much more resources to maintain. Unlike a star, it wouldn't just need a bunch of matter to bunch up from gravity, they would actually seek out food for their entire lifespans—something that definitely was strange compared to the rest of the universe.

 

[fleshgarden]

only if a person is forced to live when they don't want to. honestly, I can't see anything positive about this world and the life system and everything.. but some people don't have a problem with it, and they don't seem to feel bothered about living so then it wouldn't be evil because they are happy. death is a solution when you aren't happy in life. life can be a gift or a curse depending on the person. to myself, it is wrong.

I think the universe wasn't suppose to create life. Before life existed, the objects in the universe felt completely "detached." What I'm trying to say is that the actions an object did amounted to zero. They would come into existence, and then disappear, without having instincts or cognitions. Life on the other hand, took so much more resources to maintain. Unlike a star, it wouldn't just need a bunch of matter to bunch up from gravity, they would actually seek out food for their entire lifespans—something that definitely was strange compared to the rest of the universe.

this is something i've thought a lot about before.... I'm glad you put it into words

 

[DEATH IS FREEDOM]

I think that you are smarter than most people who slave away for decades. These people don´t have time to philosophize. Everything is time limited. If you are unlucky in life, you should be able to shorten your life.

 

[Leiden]

Yes, very.

 

[untothedepths]

idk anymore i just want to be gone. i hate living

 

[Lady Laudanum]

Life is not inherently evil or wrong but the things that happened to us and brought us to this forum are definitely evil and wrong.