Discussion Is it possible to be pro-choice while trying to give people hope to live?

[jodes2]

I don't want to be accused of being a pro-lifer! But I don't want to be pro-death either!

 

[Someone123]

Of course, you just need to be careful about it. If you respect your choice to ctb or not but you see signs of hope it can be worth it to carefully encourage them to check into this- SI will always big a big factor if they have doubts about ctb.

 

[jodes2]

Thank you

 

[leeloosnow]

excluding any sort of 'should live' or 'should ctb' nonsense talk....
i would recommend anyone to consider their situation and weigh their possible outcomes as carefully, thoroughly as possible- not just ctb, but any significant decision.
ctb the most significant, consequential choice one can make, so yea, i'm good with ^approach.

 

[jodes2]

excluding any sort of 'should live' or 'should ctb' nonsense talk....
i would recommend anyone to consider their situation and weigh their possible outcomes as carefully, thoroughly as possible- not just ctb, but any significant decision.
ctb the most significant, consequential choice one can make, so yea, i'm good with ^approach.

Thank you!

 

[Someone123]

There are a fair number of people on this site who posted about considering ctb, but who had doubts, who later posted about being recovered, with encouragement from people on this site being a big part of it. Of course some of these have relapsed, it's a tough struggle.

 

[Rounded Agony]

Yes, but there is a time and place.

I wonder if you're referring to the reaction you got in aladdin's sn thread earlier, or whatever other one you mentioned there (which I didn't see). Honestly I don't think the former conveyed the most appropriate energy; since they didn't seem unsure or faltering at all, I don't think the post warranted the shocked tone you replied with. The exclamation marks. Wishing peace at the end of the message instead of the beginning. Obviously someone will try for help if they change their mind. This is the energy I got from what you wrote, maybe not what others would see.

Just my take.

 

[jodes2]

Yes, but there is a time and place.

I wonder if you're referring to the reaction you got in aladdin's sn thread earlier, or whatever other one you mentioned there (which I didn't see). Honestly I don't think the former conveyed the most appropriate energy; since they didn't seem unsure or faltering at all, I don't think the post warranted the shocked tone you replied with. The exclamation marks. Wishing peace at the end of the message instead of the beginning. Obviously someone will try for help if they change their mind. This is the energy I got from what you wrote, maybe not what others would see.

Just my take.

Thanks for your honesty! I guess that makes sense. I'll try harder to be a bit less tone deaf in future!

 

[Need2BFree]

Honestly I hate labels.
Hey! you're not alone I don't want to be accused of being a pro-lifer, but I'm not pro-death either. You see I understand the reasons for people being a pro-lifer, I understand people's reasons for being pro-choice.
I'm the same about abortion I'm not for it and not against it. Who am to judge and condemn others.

Sorry for sounding selfish but I feel at a loss in what to say! When I read a post that they've made a decision to ctb today/tonight.
I do wholeheartedly respect their decision, but a part of me wishing there was a better alternative for them.
I guess I have more hope for others than what I have for myself. There's a strong part of me wanting to reach out to that person who's about to ctb, No, I am not trying to be a hero in anyway. I most definitely don't want to prolong anyone's suffering. I'm aware some people here they really want to ctb, but there's some people who aren't really sure and they are doubtful in their decision. To which ctb might not be the option for them, maybe they need a hug, maybe they need to heard, maybe they need to hear someone cares about them. Maybe they are having last minute doubts.

 

[jodes2]

Thaestly I hate labels.

Hey! you're not alone I don't want to be accused of being a pro-lifer, but I'm not pro-death either. You see I understand the reasons for people being a pro-lifer, I understand people's reasons for being pro-choice.
I'm the same about abortion I'm not for it and not against it. Who am to judge and condemn others.

Sorry for sounding selfish but I feel at a loss in what to say! When I read a post that they've made a decision to ctb today/tonight.
I do wholeheartedly respect their decision, but a part of me wishing there was a better alternative for them.
I guess I have more hope for others than what I have for myself. There's a strong part of me wanting to reach out to that person who's about to ctb, No, I am not trying to be a hero in anyway. I most definitely don't want to prolong anyone's suffering. I'm aware some people here they really want to ctb, but there's some people who aren't really sure and they are doubtful in their decision. To which ctb might not be the option for them, maybe they need a hug, maybe they need to heard, maybe they need to hear someone cares about them. Maybe they are having last minute doubts.

Thanks for your thoughtful response

 

[Onw9]

Also is it possible to be pro choice while giving consolation about the persons choice. Like not encouraging just helping them be less nervous about it

 

[BillyBob]

Some people who have needed help I have talked to them and helped them. Most of the time it is just listening to them and including suggestions if they ask for some.
Put no words in their mouth and just be mindful of your own words that could come of callous or inappropriate to the situation.

My sister OD'd one night and she rung me up since she knew I had been through it all and would not judge. Just talked to her like a normal everyday person while taking her to the hospital. I think that the main thing most people want in a time in need is to be treated like a human.

 

[willitpass]

i understand the wish to not come across as pro-death on here, as the line between pro-choice and pro-death can be very blurry. however i think a lot of it comes down to time and place, and how you phrase your words. excluding the situation from aladdin's goodbye post because that was distasteful on the other persons part and not yours, i think the issue has been many people getting frustrated because they are hearing the same stuff that they come here to avoid. many of us here have been through significant amounts of treatment already and are very sensitive to toxic positivity and come here to avoid it. sometimes we just want someone to be a listening ear and are not looking for solutions one way or another. we just want a place where someone can say that they understand that we're in pain. we aren't looking for a way to feel better and unless specifically asked we aren't looking for advice on how to end it, we are simply putting out our feelings in a place where we can't put them anywhere else. i think this is where you've been finding yourself in trouble is because people here don't necessarily always want a solution when they vent

 

[jodes2]

i understand the wish to not come across as pro-death on here, as the line between pro-choice and pro-death can be very blurry. however i think a lot of it comes down to time and place, and how you phrase your words. excluding the situation from aladdin's goodbye post because that was distasteful on the other persons part and not yours, i think the issue has been many people getting frustrated because they are hearing the same stuff that they come here to avoid. many of us here have been through significant amounts of treatment already and are very sensitive to toxic positivity and come here to avoid it. sometimes we just want someone to be a listening ear and are not looking for solutions one way or another. we just want a place where someone can say that they understand that we're in pain. we aren't looking for a way to feel better and unless specifically asked we aren't looking for advice on how to end it, we are simply putting out our feelings in a place where we can't put them anywhere else. i think this is where you've been finding yourself in trouble is because people here don't necessarily always want a solution when they vent

Thanks for the advice - I will try to be more considerate of what people are expecting

 

[willitpass]

Thanks for the advice - I will try to be more considerate of what people are expecting

people in the recovery section are much more open to suggestions on how to feel better. the suicide forum is a lot more of a down space unfortunately. however as people said above me, if it seems someone has not put in much thought at all into what they are doing and states that it is a recent decision to ctb i sometimes do think it can be good to inquire on what treatments they have tried. i think it becomes a much more sticky situation when someone has made it clear they have made many attempts at recovery, at which point they may well not want to continue trying for a wide variety of reasons

 

[Exact Change]

Wouldn't everyone prefer to be alive while happy? I for one, find comfort to have contact with others here who struggle between giving up on the hope of a better existence, and having the faith that there is happiness somewhere on the horizon. I read the one comment regarding your response on a thread. I think you were completely supportive and appropriate. I hope you aren't doubting your words. You are right when saying pro-choice rather than pro-death. I understand anyone's choice to leave, but I'm not celebrating the sadness of it either.

 

[jodes2]

Wouldn't everyone prefer to be alive while happy? I for one, find comfort to have contact with others here who struggle between giving up on the hope of a better existence, and having the faith that there is happiness somewhere on the horizon. I read the one comment regarding your response on a thread. I think you were completely supportive and appropriate. I hope you aren't doubting your words. You are right when saying pro-choice rather than pro-death. I understand anyone's choice to leave, but I'm not celebrating the sadness of it either.

Thank you

 

[Per Ardua Ad Astra]

people in the recovery section are much more open to suggestions on how to feel better.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...ter-3rd-disability-denial.103164/post-1772056

@jodes2

 

[tokapi]

Of course, you just need to be careful about it. If you respect your choice to ctb or not but you see signs of hope it can be worth it to carefully encourage them to check into this- SI will always big a big factor if they have doubts about ctb.

agree - what's SI? I know it as 'suicide ideation' but it seems to be used the opposite way here

 

[Someone123]

agree - what's SI? I know it as 'suicide ideation' but it seems to be used the opposite way here

SI actually means Survival Instinct here- this prevents attempts oftentimes even when people really want to leave.

 

[tokapi]

SI actually means Survival Instinct here- this prevents attempts oftentimes even when people really want to leave.

ah, yes makes sense, cheers

 

[FuneralCry]

The problem with this, is that saying things like 'it will get better' doesn't help anything. People don't come on here wanting to hear forced optimism and to have their feelings invalidated. The truth is that you don't know what people are really going through and how they experience life. Like one example is that a lot of people on here suffer debilitating health conditions that mean that they have no choice but to ctb. And many others simply despise life. It's insensitive to say in that case 'things will get better'. People don't want to have life valuing statements forced on them, not everyone sees life as being valuable and something that should be prolonged at all costs. People are tired and frustrated and I get that even if you mean well I understand why people would label those as 'pro lifers', who spread forced positivity. This site isn't facebook or whatever and it's the one place that we can be open about our wish to die without all of the stigma associated with the subject of suicide.

Saying those platitudes could never remove why people wish to ctb in the first place or fix any of their problems. This is meant to be a suicide forum for people to vent, as already said above. I mean if you have lots of hope then good for you, but toxic positivity doesn't even qualify as 'advice'. It just makes people feel more alone and isolated. I think that people wish to be supported, have their choice respected and receive understanding and communicate with like minded people rather than to be told 'It gets better'. I think that is what being pro choice means at least to me. Those who wish to die get their decision respected while those who wish to live get their decision respected.

 

[jodes2]

The problem with this, is that saying things like 'it will get better' doesn't help anything. People don't come on here wanting to hear forced optimism and to have their feelings invalidated. The truth is that you don't know what people are really going through and how they experience life. Like one example is that a lot of people on here suffer debilitating health conditions that mean that they have no choice but to ctb. And many others simply despise life. It's insensitive to say in that case 'things will get better'. People don't want to have life valuing statements forced on them, not everyone sees life as being valuable and something that should be prolonged at all costs. People are tired and frustrated and I get that even if you mean well I understand why people would label those as 'pro lifers', who spread forced positivity. This site isn't facebook or whatever and it's the one place that we can be open about our wish to die without all of the stigma associated with the subject of suicide.

Saying those platitudes could never remove why people wish to ctb in the first place or fix any of their problems. This is meant to be a suicide forum for people to vent, as already said above. I mean if you have lots of hope then good for you, but toxic positivity doesn't even qualify as 'advice'. It just makes people feel more alone and isolated. I think that people wish to be supported, have their choice respected and receive understanding and communicate with like minded people rather than to be told 'It gets better'. I think that is what being pro choice means at least to me. Those who wish to die get their decision respected while those who wish to live get their decision respected.

Instead of saying things will get better, I sometimes say things can get better. Things sometimes get better. I think that's accurate? Without knowing much more detail? I don't just spout toxic positivity platitudes, I try to be thoughtful and considerate, but I'm not perfect, I do make mistakes. But I've given out my sources to like 100 people so I feel to be pro choice I need to balance things out a little bit. I certainly never intend to force positivity - people can take or leave it and I'll accept it. I do try to be selective about what I say and when, both so I don't encourage suicide, but also so I don't force positivity down people's throats. I really try to embody the pro-choice philosophy in a balanced, respectful way

 

[anxiousguineapig]

The idea that any and all hope or positivity must be "toxic" is honestly one of the biggest problems with this site.

I believe people should have the right to a peaceful death under circumstances of their choice if they choose, but I also believe we as a society should do everything possible to dissuade people from choosing that by making their lives better and finding ways to help them, on their terms. I suspect in any society a small number of people will always be suicidal, but the majority of suicides are preventable at some point; not necessarily by the time someone is so hurt that they feel it's their only option, but all the little things that led up to that point.

Also, when we say depression and anxiety are mental illnesses, it means they literally alter your perception. Many people attempt suicide, survive, and feel glad that they did. And many people's lives do eventually get better if they can hang on long enough, but mental illness can make it virtually impossible to see and recognize those possibilities. None of that means that suicide shouldn't be an option for anyone, but it is objectively true that almost anyone's life can improve (with a few exceptions for things like terminal illness) and ruling out that possibility and making decisions based on that is just as irrational as deciding to stay alive because somebody told you "it gets better."