Discussion Is depression an illness?

[Forever Sleep]

How do you feel about depression as an illness? So- presumably, all people experience depressed mood sometimes. It wouldn't be natural to feel jubilant after the loss of a loved one or a redundancy. So- when does it become depression? When you can't shake it off? When it starts to affect things like eating and sleeping patterns? When it gets so bad that you want to kill yourself? When it isn't related to things that are happening in your life?

Is that REALLY illness though? I guess there are scientific studies that show that there are physiological changes in the brain.

Still- what I'm trying to get at is- in this world- where there are so many difficulties to overcome and people may be feeling less rewarded at the end- of course people are depressed. What are they supposed to be looking forward to? They probably aren't making enough money to live on. Everything can feel like a chore. Maybe they're too tired and stressed to enjoy any time off they do have. What's the proper or normal way to experience this life? Isn't it more crazy to love that kind of life? I guess maybe it is irrational not to want to get better. I think depression can do that.

I guess I'm thinking about mild, situational depression here. The one I would imagine the majority of people suffer with. It's not to say that something like bipolar isn't real- that has very clear and I'm guessing irrational high and low periods. That to me does strike me as an illness- as I imagine it can function independantly from outside stimuli. What do you think though? Do you think depression (especially mild- moderate) is over diagnosed as an illness?

 

[Tesha]

I must admit, I've not put too much thought into your particular question, but my immediate response is around the difference between stress response and depression. There is interconnectivity and interdependence between the two. I think the initial stress response, if left untreated and allowed to develop in an unhealthy way can lead to initial symptoms of depression. Again if these are left untreated, or more stress occurs, then the depression gets worse.

Everyone needs some stress to function; stress can even be healthy. But, when it becomes unhealthy it can morph into depression. when the depression starts to impact on your ability to function it becomes an illness (in my opinion). Unlike most of the animal kingdom, we really haven't evolved into being robust life forms. In fact, we're pretty useless and destructive to other living things…

 

[NumbItAll]

I think it is more of a symptom than a cause itself, though it can create a negative loop. I have come to this conclusion after microdosing psilocybin, which has an antidepressant effect, and realizing the unbearable pain that my depression normally protects me from feeling. I prefer the comfortable fog of depression over facing a horrible reality and feeling things.

Here is an interesting perspective that might help explain why conventional treatment doesn't work.

Edit: I do think the idea of depression as an illness or defect with someone starts with the assumption that life is inherently good and happiness is the default state, something I reject. The phenomenon of depression is of course very real though.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Depression as a mental illness Is most clearly discerned when someone by their own admission has everything they would want and feels no void in their life, yet still is unable to feel consistent euthymia (the average daily positive sense of well-being). It is less clear when people have more concrete problems and a tangibly poor quality of life. That probably describes most people who end up here, which is why they bristle so much at the idea that their suicidal feelings are a function of "mental illness".

Having become acquainted with your thinking I'm not sure I would consider you mentally ill as such. I think you just have an aberrant emotional neurotype by which you feel less attachment to and derive less reward from living. Given that there are over 8 billion people out there, it's to be expected that there will be substantive differences in how we experience life.

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

I like the analogy of depression being like a fever. When your body cranks up the temperature, it's a sign that there is something going wrong that triggered that response. You go to see the doctor, and they try to figure out what the underlying problem is to treat it. They might give you something to reduce the fever, but the treatment doesn't focus on the fever itself. "Fever" is not an illness, but a word we use to describe a situation where our body temperature is higher than normal.

Similarly, "depression" is not a thing-in-itself but an umbrella term to describe certain psychological symptoms. It's meant to enable mental health professionals to communicate in fairly concrete terms what a patient is experiencing—e.g., per the DSM-5, depressed mood, loss of interest, weight changes, sleep disturbances, fatigue, suicidal ideation, etc., for a period of at least two weeks. Nowhere does it say what is causing the symptoms, which is what the mental health professional should try to find out and help the patient address. The person isn't having a tough time because of their depressed mood or loss of interest or shit quality of sleep; they're experiencing those things because of some underlying problem that needs to be looked at.

Still- what I'm trying to get at is- in this world- where there are so many difficulties to overcome and people may be feeling less rewarded at the end- of course people are depressed. What are they supposed to be looking forward to? They probably aren't making enough money to live on. Everything can feel like a chore. Maybe they're too tired and stressed to enjoy any time off they do have. What's the proper or normal way to experience this life? Isn't it more crazy to love that kind of life?

Pretty much this. Modern life boils people down to how much they produce, how much money they have, what they consume... it is, at its core, an unnatural and inhuman system. It is no surprise that, as time goes on, more and more people burn out and start suffering emotionally and mentally from the inhumane treatment they put up with every day. And that is to say nothing of all the various horrible situations people can find themselves in throughout life. Even living a blessed normie life will wear you down eventually. Things get even harder if you're an inquisitive, introspective sort, because the blessing of normiehood don't mean much of anything to you to begin with, and so you find yourself staring down the void of modernity, wondering what you're missing because surely there's more to life than this bullshit, right? Right?

 

[Scythe]

Personally, I think it's about time to rephrase the medical requirement to be diagnosed with depression. To make it so only people with horomome inbalance will be diagnosed with depression.
It is not a mental disorder to react apporiately to your surroundings. If someone works in a factory where their personal safety is always at risk and have insane hours and low wages. They cannot realistically be happy. Sure, people get by living that life without suicide idealation, but it's reasonable to live that life and be depresses all the time. Depression can just be a reaction to life, therefore should not be considered a mental illness unless caused by hormone inbalance.
Main thing, right now the label of mentally ill on depressed people is not great. People treat us as something below them, something that might break easily, a criminal, you name it. It's just a bad label to have and to humanize people like us and popentially normalize suicide. Depression caused by life has to be removed from the mental disorder category.

 

[Unattainable666]

This is my opinion. Depression is no different than diabetes, heart issue, whatever medical issues there are. The difference is that doctors dont really care about mental illness. People figure you're either (1) looking for someone to feel sorry for you; (2) just need to get over it; (3) don't pray enough - you get what I"m saying people who have no clue what mental illness is are fucking clueless and prefer to stay that way. The only people who understand mental illness are the ones who are suffering with it.