Discussion Is ctb egoistic?

[B3rry]

I've had a discussion with a friend of mine about suicide. And we came to the conclusion that ctb is the most selfish thing you can do.
We thought that suicide will hurt everybody around you and that it is a wish to fulfill your dream. Rather more we came to the conclusion that every relationship is egoisitic, because you are in a relationship to feel yourself better.
But what are your opinions on that?

 

[therhydler]

One could argue that everything we do is egoistic because we always ultimately do things to feel better... But I don't think specifically suicide is a selfish act. I know I will cause tremendous suffering to my loved ones but I just cannot bear the suffering I am in. And I cannot do anything to end it. My mind is completely out of control and it is destroying me. It is a choice between two hells: causing loved ones suffering or living on myself.

Though honestly if they could step into my head for a while they would wish I were dead and at peace.

 

[therhydler]

Death is and never has been my dream but it is my only choice

 

[15dec]

One could argue that everything we do is egoistic because we always ultimately do things to feel better... But I don't think specifically suicide is a selfish act. I know I will cause tremendous suffering to my loved ones but I just cannot bear the suffering I am in. And I cannot do anything to end it. My mind is completely out of control and it is destroying me. It is a choice between two hells: causing loved ones suffering or living on myself.

Though honestly if they could step into my head for a while they would wish I were dead and at peace.

I feel the same. I cause my loved ones pain being alive so I may as well ctb and do one last cruel thing instead of many more over the years

 

[YukiFox]

The "egoistic" aura about suicide it´s only a social convention.Some cultures are more openly to them, yes, they have grief too, but they respect the decision of the deceased.
My opinion are: we must fight against that opinion. It hurts a lot of people and they suffer more and more and they have an dead end. I think that opinion is based that the humans does not be prepared for the grief in any circumstance, and blame for the deceased about their incapacity of handle and accept the death as a reality for everyone. Yes, it hurt a lot when a loved one CTB, but I put on the shoes of some people who has made that decision.
The only exception that I have about the CTB are with the criminals who killed or raped another one(s) and then kills theirself to avoid the law enforcement.

 

[Anima]

Yes, I believe it is. It is putting my own needs/pain/suffering before everyone else and this is driving me crazy ....

 

[therhydler]

Yes, I believe it is. It is putting my own needs/pain/suffering before everyone else and this is driving me crazy ....

We are only human... we do not want to suffer. If we do not have any prospect of being happy before us at all it is natural to consider suicide. Although its driving me crazy too

 

[B3rry]

One could argue that everything we do is egoistic because we always ultimately do things to feel better... But I don't think specifically suicide is a selfish act. I know I will cause tremendous suffering to my loved ones but I just cannot bear the suffering I am in. And I cannot do anything to end it. My mind is completely out of control and it is destroying me. It is a choice between two hells: causing loved ones suffering or living on myself.

Though honestly if they could step into my head for a while they would wish I were dead and at peace.

I see where you're coming from.
I feel like I'm caged in my thoughts.
And I have am urge to ctb. But I also get the pov that suicide is egoisitic.
If anyone could step in my mind for one day they'd experience ctb as peaceful way to end it all.
But do you think ctb is an urge, wish or maybe something else?
I feel like it's an urge and I don't know whether it is right or not. But I know I'll eather hurt me and anybody else or keep on suffering.
And I'll keep rather keep suffering.
Because i can't hurt anybody else.
You know and when I ctb I'll ultimately will fulfill my wish to ctb and end my suffering. But I let everyone In my close vicinity suffer.
And I'm scared of this.


EDIT//
Sorry if it doesn't make sense.
English isn't my mother tongue.
If I said something wrong just let me know.

 

[therhydler]

I see where you're coming from.
I feel like I'm caged in my thoughts.
And I have am urge to ctb. But I also get the pov that suicide is egoisitic.
If anyone could step in my mind for one day they'd experience ctb as peaceful way to end it all.
But do you think ctb is an urge, wish or maybe something else?
I feel like it's an urge and I don't know whether it is right or not. But I know I'll eather hurt me and anybody else or keep on suffering.
And I'll keep rather keep suffering.
Because i can't hurt anybody else.
You know and when I ctb I'll ultimately will fulfill my wish to ctb and end my suffering. But I let everyone In my close vicinity suffer.
And I'm scared of this.

I understand... I think in every case it is a bit different because we are all so different. Some people have an almost philosophical yearning for death even when they are not suffering do much. In my case I would give anything in the world to be able to live on, even with suffering, but not this suffering. I have absolutely no moments of rest. But I do not want death and I'm terified of it. I am stuck but I know that in the end ctb will be the answer. Even though it makes me sick

 

[Anima]

We are only human... we do not want to suffer. If we do not have any prospect of being happy before us at all it is natural to consider suicide. Although its driving me crazy too

You are right and it still feels so wrong. Yet none of those around me would ever do something like that. They keep going no matter how much they are suffering. For those around them. I feel weak and unworthy of their love and care.

 

[MsM3talGamer]

It doesn't feel egoistic to me. No one has ever cared about me enough to alleviate my suffering or to help me. I'm leaving this world giving most people I know the middle finger. I won't be their emotional punching bag or Scapegoat any more.

 

[Nobodyanywhere]

I told my husband I wanted to do it. He thought it was extremely selfish.

The truth is, I really don't want to be with him. I can't leave him though because he has a chronic illness and will someday need a kidney transplant. I retired from the military so I have excellent medical benefits, and because of that, so does he. If we divorce, he looses them and my pension. If I die, he keeps the benefits and half the pension. All the debt in my name goes away too because we don't live in a community property state.

I'm also a shitty person, a shitty mother, I have mental illnesses. I haven't worked in a while.

There won't redemption in my cbt, but I truly believe it will be fore the greater good. I'm a toxic person. I've done just about everything I can to try to be better and I've gotten nowhere. I know I'll cause irreparable harm, but I think the fact that I won't be there will ultimately outweigh the harm.

 

[Empty Smile]

And we came to the conclusion that ctb is the most selfish thing you can do.

Ctb is the most selfish thing we can do???

I'm sorry, but IMO, forcing me to live when I would rather be dead is making you the selfish one. No one asked to be brought into this world, so no one should force us to stay in this world if we choose not to.

All these naysayers saying "think about the pain you're causing others to suffer when you ctb." How bout they think of all the pain I'm suffering while alive?

Ever see the commercials where a depressed person is holding up a happy face sign in front of their sad face? I hold that sign up every damn day when I am around people. I am tired of acting happy just to please everyone else. It's time for me to do for me, regardless of the suffering it causes.

They like to say time heals all pain. Time hasn't healed my pain. My pain has been going for more than 20 years, when does my healing start?

 

[tommyhalpinkelly]

Is it selfish for a homeless kid who has been kicked out to end his life?

 

[CFLoser]

It is selfish. It is incredibly selfish and it's a shitty thing to do. But so is having kids, and nobody bats an eye at that.

For me, cutting down my potential future contacts with people to 0, is really a good thing.

 

[Jodes]

It is selfish. It is incredibly selfish and it's a shitty thing to do. But so is having kids, and nobody bats an eye at that.

For me, cutting down my potential future contacts with people to 0, is really a good thing.

Im gettin there

 

[ArtsyDrawer]

I present the same argument I presented to a Muslim coworker when discussing his potential in assisting me to ctb: is it not more haram (evil) to keep one alive but in suffering than to end his life, but grant them peace?

 

[Didymus]

In my suicide letter I mention a lot of me being selfish, a coward and a weakling to face life. I literately write to my mother that I love her so much but my action shows the opposite. And ask her to try and forgive me.

 

[Empty Smile]

In my suicide letter I mention a lot of me being selfish, a coward and a weakling to face life. I literately write to my mother that I love her so much but my action shows the opposite. And ask her to try and forgive me.

You are not selfish, nor a coward, nor a weakling. Everyone goes through hardships in life, no matter how well they have it. The most happiest person in the world is brought to their knees every once in a while.

 

[ArtsyDrawer]

You are right and it still feels so wrong. Yet none of those around me would ever do something like that. They keep going no matter how much they are suffering. For those around them. I feel weak and unworthy of their love and care.

In rocky 3 (I think) Stallone gives this huge speech about how "...it's not how hard you can hit, it's how hard you can GET hit and keep moving forward..."
There is also that picture of a small puppy with an arrow in his back protected by a larger wolf with like twenty in his.
While the former is all powerful and motivational and stuff, and the latter is used by various life gurus, both accidentally showcase a part of life that I would go as far as saying 99.9999% of the world really doesn't want to think of. Not everyone can be the big protecting wolf or getting battered in the face for six hours and keep moving forward and win the big match or whatever.
Sure, nobody wants to lose the big match, but not everyone can win either.
For roughly twenty nine years I genuinely believed it to be a bad thing. Not everyone can be a hero.
This site showed me, in the largest concentration, at least, that while we're all heroes of our own story, on the grand scheme, there's only one story that we're all taking part in. It's ok to not be the big hero.

 

[Arvinneedstodie]

My prolonged meaningless existence is selfishness. If i commit suicide, it will be the most selfless thing i can do right now. I am a burden to my family right now. They support me financially, but don't understand or care enough to support me emotionally. My family are realists, and deep down we have an understanding that i am a burden, and we all know i am broken beyond repair. If i kill myself, i can free up this apartment for my brother who just got married. This also means my mother can finally retire and move back to her home country and enjoy her retirement.

Suicide is selfish? Depends. For me, it's the right thing to do.

Also i forgot to mention that there is a decent life insurance on me.

 

[pole]

I've had a discussion with a friend of mine about suicide. And we came to the conclusion that ctb is the most selfish thing you can do.
We thought that suicide will hurt everybody around you and that it is a wish to fulfill your dream. Rather more we came to the conclusion that every relationship is egoisitic, because you are in a relationship to feel yourself better.
But what are your opinions on that?

I definitely believe that it isnt a selfish act or egoistic. Isnt it in our human nature to do whats right and best for us? We want to CTB to be at peace or pursue the peace of mind that we aren't getting right now in life. Would you say its selfish for us to do anything for that peace and rid ourselves of being in pain everyday? Isnt it selfish in itself to put yourself through the pain of living everyday for the sake of fighting because you dont wanna hurt others by your death? And lastly, its an individuals own choice. Suicidal people deserve more than just guilt trips of how there death is gonna affect others, but deserve peace and love. Giving suicidal people another guilt trip, something they already deal with in their life is already awful. And those who think suicidal people are egoistic and selfish by not thinking of others when committing their act of suicide are just as selfish for not thinking of the peace that suicidal people are dying for.

 

[Lifeisatrap]

No forcing people who have no desire to live is egotistical. In fact one of the few barriers holding me back is the damn egotistical self preservation instinct ingrained in all of us. But mostly it's a manic self preservationalist society standing in my way.

 

[Anima]

In rocky 3 (I think) Stallone gives this huge speech about how "...it's not how hard you can hit, it's how hard you can GET hit and keep moving forward..."
There is also that picture of a small puppy with an arrow in his back protected by a larger wolf with like twenty in his.
While the former is all powerful and motivational and stuff, and the latter is used by various life gurus, both accidentally showcase a part of life that I would go as far as saying 99.9999% of the world really doesn't want to think of. Not everyone can be the big protecting wolf or getting battered in the face for six hours and keep moving forward and win the big match or whatever.
Sure, nobody wants to lose the big match, but not everyone can win either.
For roughly twenty nine years I genuinely believed it to be a bad thing. Not everyone can be a hero.
This site showed me, in the largest concentration, at least, that while we're all heroes of our own story, on the grand scheme, there's only one story that we're all taking part in. It's ok to not be the big hero.

I'm not crying ... someone must be cutting onions somewhere.

Thank you.

 

[wishfulthinking]

I don't think so, altohough many people suicide is egoistic. If you suffer the most time of your life with an illness, you can't live for other people anymore.

 

[bigj75]

People have limits. Its egotistical to think otherwise. At some point people reach their limit to continue to function at the best of their capability. Once that threshold is reached nature, natural selection, your own body, and mind will continue to falter on you and give you signs that you aren't able to handle shit anymore no matter how bad other people want you to continue living and no matter how hard you try. People really believe will power alone will be enough to accomplish anything. That alone is far more egotistical than wanting to ctb.

 

[Misanthrope]

I don't agree with that conclusion. The most selfish thing you can do is abuse another human being for your own self gratification to the point their self will dies leaving them a hollow shell.

I could also point out the egoistic nature of you posting this in the first place as on some level you are getting gratification from it. That does not necessarily make it selfish or wrong or something you should stop doing though. We are bags of brain chemicals after all, predominantly driven to seek pleasure and mitigate our pain. Even if it comes at the expense of something else. That is just default survival for you.

Stick a burger in your gob you are selfishly endorsing the horror show of the meat industry and the slurry that winds up contaminating fresh water. Putting petrol in your car because you would rather not walk in the rain. Selfishly supporting corrupt oil barons and foreign wars.

If we stopped doing things because they were selfish and result in harm in some form we wouldn't actually do anything at all. Even owning pencils would be selfish. Don't even get me started on fiat currency or chocolate.

Being driven to suicide is also the equivalent of me setting you on fire beside a swimming pool that people happen to be playing in. The immediacy of seemingly inescapable pain will compel you to jump in that pool regardless of how disruptive it is to those people playing.

For the most part the suicidal consider the feelings of those they will leave behind. For many they willingly choose remaining on fire solely not to disrupt the people playing in the pool. At great expense to themselves. That demonstrates consideration of an intense nature. Which is the complete opposite of the definition of selfish. The selfish won't even ponder it or register it as a question in the first place.

Even seasoned marines break to pain eventually, with techniques more focused on delaying that inevitability whilst under torture, while they hold out hope for rescue. So what chance do average people have, who are being tortured by their own minds and bodies over a span of a lifetime? Who have exhausted avenues of escape and realised there is no rescue?

 

[Johnnythefox]

I don't agree with that conclusion. The most selfish thing you can do is abuse another human being for your own self gratification to the point their self will dies leaving them a hollow shell.

I could also point out the egoistic nature of you posting this in the first place as on some level you are getting gratification from it. That does not necessarily make it selfish or wrong or something you should stop doing though. We are bags of brain chemicals after all, predominantly driven to seek pleasure and mitigate our pain. Even if it comes at the expense of something else. That is just default survival for you.

Stick a burger in your gob you are selfishly endorsing the horror show of the meat industry and the slurry that winds up contaminating fresh water. Putting petrol in your car because you would rather not walk in the rain. Selfishly supporting corrupt oil barons and foreign wars.

If we stopped doing things because they were selfish and result in harm in some form we wouldn't actually do anything at all. Even owning pencils would be selfish. Don't even get me started on fiat currency or chocolate.

Being driven to suicide is also the equivalent of me setting you on fire beside a swimming pool that people happen to be playing in. The immediacy of seemingly inescapable pain will compel you to jump in that pool regardless of how disruptive it is to those people playing.

For the most part the suicidal consider the feelings of those they will leave behind. For many they willingly choose remaining on fire solely not to disrupt the people playing in the pool. At great expense to themselves. That demonstrates consideration of an intense nature. Which is the complete opposite of the definition of selfish. The selfish won't even ponder it or register it as a question in the first place.

Even seasoned marines break to pain eventually, with techniques more focused on delaying that inevitability whilst under torture, while they hold out hope for rescue. So what chance do average people have, who are being tortured by their own minds and bodies over a span of a lifetime? Who have exhausted avenues of escape and realised there is no rescue?

I would definitely vote for you if you ever considered running for prime minister! But you're too honest for that shit.

 

[lukaszz12]

No. What's egoistic is pricks like you telling people to keep suffering just because of your feelings. And making them feel even worse by saying shit like that

 

[stellabelle]

I've had a discussion with a friend of mine about suicide. And we came to the conclusion that ctb is the most selfish thing you can do.
We thought that suicide will hurt everybody around you and that it is a wish to fulfill your dream. Rather more we came to the conclusion that every relationship is egoisitic, because you are in a relationship to feel yourself better.
But what are your opinions on that?

It depends. I think it can be rather selfless in a lot of scenarios, and that people are often upset because of their own selfish reasons for wanting that person to stay alive. Some acts and methods are more selfish than others, but really it's a matter of opinion. It is egotistic to a point. But then again so is living.