Breadbfra

Breadbfra

Specialist
Jul 16, 2020
374
I support socialdemocracy but I have plenty of communist friends that I don't understand.
We live in a country where people hang themselves due to taxes, unemployement is at 13% because hiring someone is difficult and until 2015 you couldn't be fired for any reason. Everything can get solved, for them, apparently by establishing URSS again, or having a Cuba sized economy.
I don't understand how can someone blame capitalism on everything. Switzerland IS capitalist but has one of the wealthiest societies. Norway too. Sweden also, Denmark too. And they're fine!
J just got told today that since I wanted to own a bakery shop I would immediately become an exploiter.
Can you give me your opinions over this? I really can't get it.
 
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NumbItAll

NumbItAll

expendable
May 20, 2018
1,090
There is no perfect system. It is the catalyst for tremendous growth, but also has some problems such as negative externalities and inequality. Many people are looking for easy, simple answers, but they do not exist. Nuance is key!
 
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K

Kat!

Elementalist
Sep 30, 2020
838
The root of all unequal education is capitalism. The leaders don't want you knowing the truth because the truth will help you see through the veil.
No form of government is "best" only better, because all are tied to one person over another logic, no matter how equal a party claims to be, they are not.
Same reason why only rich and the politicians were allowed to leave the USSR.
 
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xLosthopex

xLosthopex

Tell my dogs I love them
May 29, 2020
1,135
Not every, but most imo
 
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Amumu

Amumu

Ctb - temporary solution for a permanent problem
Aug 29, 2020
2,624
I support socialdemocracy but I have plenty of communist friends that I don't understand.
We live in a country where people hang themselves due to taxes, unemployement is at 13% because hiring someone is difficult and until 2015 you couldn't be fired for any reason. Everything can get solved, for them, apparently by establishing URSS again, or having a Cuba sized economy.
I don't understand how can someone blame capitalism on everything. Switzerland IS capitalist but has one of the wealthiest societies. Norway too. Sweden also, Denmark too. And they're fine!
J just got told today that since I wanted to own a bakery shop I would immediately become an exploiter.
Can you give me your opinions over this? I really can't get it.
Someday there's going to be the final straw.
Taxes are going to be too high, debt is going to explode, so as unemployment, and money's going to be worthless.
And this day, people can blame whatever they want, this will be too late. Reality always comes back.
 
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WornOutLife

マット
Mar 22, 2020
7,164
I think human beings (most of them) are the source of every problem. Capitalism is just a part of it. Just look a what a cruel species we can be!
 
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S

Symbiote

Global Mod
Oct 12, 2020
3,101
Capitalism is simple, humans just make it more complex and troublesome, just like every other idea they've touched in history.
 
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KleinerWolf

KleinerWolf

Account Wipe.
Apr 30, 2020
2,700
I support socialdemocracy but I have plenty of communist friends that I don't understand.
We live in a country where people hang themselves due to taxes, unemployement is at 13% because hiring someone is difficult and until 2015 you couldn't be fired for any reason. Everything can get solved, for them, apparently by establishing URSS again, or having a Cuba sized economy.
I don't understand how can someone blame capitalism on everything. Switzerland IS capitalist but has one of the wealthiest societies. Norway too. Sweden also, Denmark too. And they're fine!
J just got told today that since I wanted to own a bakery shop I would immediately become an exploiter.
Can you give me your opinions over this? I really can't get it.
Owning a bakery shop is providing a service that helps community and make people happy and convenient their life,
What kind of nonsense is exploiting the people? Lol

communists are such nutheads..
 
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Breadbfra

Breadbfra

Specialist
Jul 16, 2020
374
Owning a bakery shop is providing a service that helps community and make people happy and confident their life,
What kind of nonsense is exploiting the people? Lol

communists are such nutheads..
Apparently if I hire someone I'm authomatically exploiting him
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
20,718
Any economic system is doomed to come with problems because of human nature. No matter how modest people claim to be the fact is we have infinite wants and finite resources. Capitalism feels the most "fair" to some people because it satisfies our competitive nature whereas anything else lacks any incentive to try any harder than anyone else. No system is perfect but I think the hardest part is getting humans to change from what they're used to.
 
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Fragile

Fragile

Broken
Jul 7, 2019
1,496
Long post, but this is how I see it, can't be concise with this complex topic.

It's very easy for some people to blame everything on capitalism when they haven't experienced the other side.

I get why some of them think that communism or heavy socialism would solve everything, it's an extremely seductive idea written in a way that makes total sense... then you implement it and realize that a single dictator can destroy a nation, and due to the nature of these systems, they will inevitably rise to power and subdue their countries. These systems require a level of control that allow such people to have such a firm grasp on every single aspect of a nation.

Capitalism is by no means perfect, but it is a more natural system that makes sense in the human context, right now it's under siege by sociopaths with their mega corporations, and those should be the ones to blame for its current state, not the system itself.

But in the end, no one weeps for their nations as much as the people who have experienced a revolution or the aftermath of communism, these ideologies trample over cultures, freedom and real progress. The fact that the perspective of people from ex-soviet nations, current china and cuba get completely ignored goes to show how privileged are westerners when they talk about installing communism.

Here in latin america we have a saying that goes something like "you know how we know that cubans are the best swimmers? because they are already in miami". there's a reason why it's so hard to get away from these countries, and why so many people are desperate to do it.

Venezuela is also a great example, we are experiencing the biggest migrant crisis in the americas due to starvation and failed socialism, and it all happened in a country that had the highest standards of living in all south america, described as a semi-european country at some point... now over 3 million venezuelans are trying to make a living in the streets of my country, they either had to starve at home or in shithole-colombia, and that somehow is not enough for some people to wake up and see the issues with these systems.
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
20,718
Besides, I'd wager that most people I know who say they want socialism or communism don't actually want what those systems really entail, they just want capitalism with free stuff.
 
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Good4Nothing

Good4Nothing

Unlovable
May 8, 2020
1,865
Capitalism is a problem because it puts too much power in the hands of people who are not elected by the public and do not serve our interests, but their own.
In the USA wealthy corporations have lobbyists that draft laws that benefit the corporation, and politicians in their pocket that pass those laws. Laws that exist for the people's benefit are often ignored, such as pollution laws and monopoly laws, which allow rich corporations to become richer, and thus more powerful.
Then there's the case of the media, where a corporation broadcasts it's personal propaganda and calls it news. And there are laws, drafted by media lobbyists, that protect their right to do that.
Or how about the case of Monsanto, a chemical company that is jockying itself into position to own a monopoly on literally all of the food that we eat.
Corporations are driving US politics, at the expense of the people the government is supposed to represent. And those few corporations swallow smaller businesses every day. Soon 3 or 4 corporations will own literally everything. Then 2 will merge into a super-corporation that the others eventually will not be able to compete with and they will be bought out, and one single corporation will own everything. Then we'll be living in a fascist dictatorship, under the illusion of democracy, but the dictator won't have a face, it will have a logo.
 
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K

Kat!

Elementalist
Sep 30, 2020
838
Idk about you but I'd rather be wagecucking for my whole life and exploited than starve to death or have to say "I love the communist party" every time I go to school or be executed.
 
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JustHeckinKillMe

JustHeckinKillMe

Cool I'm dead
Sep 26, 2019
122
Yes but no. Source of all problems is existence itself. Stop breeding.
 
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waived

waived

I am a sunrise
Jan 5, 2019
974
What lmao
You said you couldn't get it but then asked for opinions when there are answers to your questions that you might not find here. Like, "What about Switzerland's past led it to be the way it is today" and "does riches of a nation or individual mean capitalism is successful or not exploitative?". Imo that's going to be your best bet at answering your questions.
 
Breadbfra

Breadbfra

Specialist
Jul 16, 2020
374
You said you couldn't get it but then asked for opinions when there are answers to your questions that you might not find here. Like, "What about Switzerland's past led it to be the way it is today" and "does riches of a nation or individual mean capitalism is successful or not exploitative?". Imo that's going to be your best bet at answering your questions.
I do not think there's a universal answer to my questions, but since many people are here due to financial reasons I realized that I could find appropriate answers
 
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Puffinz

Puffinz

Member
Dec 7, 2020
94
I hate to say it but every system has it's flaws. Capitalism has a ton of problems but it also has benefits. Any system you come up with can have unforeseen problems and consequences. There will always be people trying to cheat the system or use it to their advantage unfairly. There have always been inequality and unfairness in the world and there always will be. That isn't to say that we should stop trying to improve things but it's unrealistic to think there's some perfect system out there that solves everyone's problems.
 
Green Destiny

Green Destiny

Life isn't worth the trouble.
Nov 16, 2019
862
Capitalism works very well, problem is that it only works well for the people at the top of the food chain. Not the grocery store workers, fast food employees or even video game developers getting crunched while making video games. Guys like Bezos, Musk and that bastard Bobby Kotick have made a fortune on top of even more fortunes during the pandemic while people have died from covid, lost their jobs and homes while facing starvation. I'm no supporter of communism far from it I hate it, but capitalism has and continues to be a bane of existence for regular everyday people.
 
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L

Life sucks

Visionary
Apr 18, 2018
2,136
Life is the source of all problems
 
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RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
2,133
I'm surprised so many people in this thread support capitalism. It seems that people opposing alternatives to the capitalist system don't really understand what capitalism or communism - which is always portrayed as the absolute opposite - means. For example, people seem to associate communism with authority and oppression (USSR style) but communism, according to Marx, was actually inherently anti-authoritarian and even anarchist. It describes a society in the absence of state, money and social classes with the common ownership of the means of production. There is no regime or authority to enforce certain laws. Obviously it's a very utopian picture of a perfect society without exploitation. I consider capitalism definitely an exploitative system, 1% of the richest people own twice as much wealth as the bottom 90% of world. In 2017, 82% of created wealth went to the top 1%. These are numbers that prove the current system isn't working, it's destroying the working class and people suffer all around the globe. First world countries are wealthy because we exploit the third world. An Iphone that's created for a few dollars in a Chinese factory under horrific conditions that violate any kind of human right is sold for over 1000 bucks in the modern world. Most of that profit goes to the rich. I'm a democratic socialist, that means we're trying to create a socialist system within a democratic society with political reforms, not violence.
 
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EmbraceOfTheVoid

EmbraceOfTheVoid

Part Time NEET - Full Time Suicidal
Mar 29, 2020
689
() for countless of hundreds of millions of years (maybe even more than that). With humans or without humans. With capitalism or without capitalism. Why? One of the laws of thermodynamics some people don´t know exist but maybe is one (if not **the**) most powerful in our universe is **entropy**. What is it? Well, it basically consists of the fact that it is easier to break something than fix something. It´s easier to create and spread a plague than cure it. It´s easier to write a corrupt law for your own benefits than to create a good one with no loopholes. It´s easier to take a good life than a evil life. You see this in action in our universe constantly because shit breaks contantly, but nothing **ever** miraculously improves. Have you ever noticed that?

This, collaborating with the existence of natural selection and game theory, has given birth to a psychopathic (evil) and psychotic (delusional, strongly prone to optimism bias, wishful thinking, false beliefs, etc) species. We enslave those weaker than thus, both [animals](https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?t=3315) and humans, the majority of which are forced to work shitty labor jobs, with a childhood involving neglect, trauma, ostracism, bullying, and a generally poor quality of life. This is the 'pulse' of our species, we abuse our children, teenagers and the weak and traumatize them to have the same evil, systematic nature we have. Note: this is **not** exclusive to humans; you can see this sort of behavior in lions, tigers, and other great predators that exhibit this kind of evil behavior, even if irrationally. And the worse is that I believe if another animal species raised to sentience and became "advanced", they would be the same as us.

Let us say, just imagine if having actual concern for humanity or life is even possible with the idea of extreme success as a CEO or high-ranking corporate figure. It's just complete fantasy. The degree to which this is a fantasy, is like someone saying "An antelope could be just as successful being a carnivore as a Lion can." You simply don't arrive at the positions in those places without being 'carnivorous' towards human beings. Because if you were, you would suffer from the same thing that natural selection punishes a Lion that sucks at killing things would suffer from-- you'd just starve and die, because this is a [**competition**](https://youtu.be/95c5GTp__AU). A kind, benevolent, caring, concerned, charitable CEO would just get eaten alive. The laws of biology(which, **reminder**: Human beings are subject to) and the laws of physics, **prevent** good people from becoming CEO's or high ranking corporate figures. It's simply the way the universe works.

Evil **always** works its way to the top in **any** system given enough time-- there's no other way for it not to, in a competition game which says, "The *sneakiest*, most *dominant*, selfish person climbs, while the most *honest*, most *humble* and *selfless* person gets climbed on."

Entropy constantly empowers that which is empowered by virtue of being the perfect distillation of evil, like the Lion, like the predator, like the apex psychopath who is, has always, and will always sit on the throne of all sentient systems in this block of spacetime moving towards greater entropy. Evil thrives once it achieves power because the powerless must work against entropy, where evil only plows forward exhibiting its nature effortlessly. Good must go *against* nature to be good. Evil does not need to do anything special to go *with* nature.


I know this is gonna be a long read, but it is needed to explain the hellish conditions we are in this universe. The problem is **not** capitalism, the problem is **not** humanity itself, the problem will **never** be what the majority of people tell you the true cause of all problems and all the suffering in this world the is nature and the laws of the universe we exist in. It uproots evil and gives it a way to conquer good and use it for its advantage. **This** is the reality that Disney and most media tries to obfuscate to you with systematically spread happy ending stories, even politics and other distractions are there to obfuscate the hellworld that we live in. People have always been trying to find a problem, when the problem is simple: we are in *Hell.*

Almost no one holds this reality up for examination daily. We are allergic. Most of us have near-zero understanding of the gravity, and those who have glimmers, ignore this fact about the quality of our reality because it's not conducive to living another day. Why must we live another day? Because genes which give rise to culture, all of which is determined by game theory which more or less says, "Psychopathy wins and holds dominion over this game". Natural selection is a game where evil wins, not good. Good is kept around for the purpose of evil wearing it's skin like a mask. Good is not adaptive, in the precise way that the cow in cow hell has no adaptive trait. It's alive. It will bear children. Those children will bear children. But nothing "adaptive" is going on. How? The fact of the matter is, a psychopathic species has kept the herbivore alive for its own gain. This is the precise relationship that evil has to goodness. Goodness is kept alive. Buddhism is kept alive. Any genuine benevolent religious idea, is kept alive. All because evil, which is powerfully [camouflaged](https://i.imgur.com/ri1sTPL.gifv),dominates reality and presses onto it in a way which goodness can never overcome.


There´s *even more* material that I could just keep elaborating on, but the true information is that this life is some kind of evil dystopian hell with no winning moves, because almost all of them empower evil. The worse is that we are delusional evil apes that evolved with brains to blind us to the true, *crushing* gravity of the situation we found ourselves into in this spherical concentration camp. If we were to take our delusional apes glasses off and truly take enough time to analyze our circumstances here on Earth, we would just yell **HOLY FUCKING SHIT** and jump off a window. If everyone was truly aware of *how* bad things are, suicide rates would skyrocket worldwide. Everyone would be killing each other, and everyone would be killing themselves. It would be a suicide epidemic of *biblical* proportions. And everyone would be doing it, not just the poor people, but the CEO´S and other powerful "kings" of Earth, because even **they** would be horrified with the revelation.

TL;DR: Life´s even worse than you think and we are in Hell.
 
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262653

262653

Cluesome
Apr 5, 2018
1,733
@EmbraceOfTheVoid I think I'm starting to really understand your habit of using quotes. This one is amazing. It all seem to be so obvious, and at the same time I couldn't imagine expressing myself so eloquently, not by a long shot! I can feel the huge gap between my understanding and what I'm able to put in words.
 
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NightmareTour

NightmareTour

Specialist
May 13, 2020
398
Capitalism is inherently anti-democracy. We live in a system where the select few can simply buy power over the population by controlling their access to basics like food, water and housing. Money determines your ability to shape the world in far more ways than the average person. With enough money, you can control the information others see, and transcend or even directly influence the law. How much money your family has determines how successful you will be in life far more than the effort you make- the education you have access to, the opportunities that are available to you, the way people see you, it all matters more to your future than your willingness to work hard. Money holds more power than any democratic result ever could. Have you ever seen a successful politician from a working class family?

People seem to have this weird misconception that a system has to be either capitalism or communism, or that any system that uses money is capitalism. Capitalism refers to the nature of the trade system, not the use of money itself. Democratic capitalism is an oxymoron, a system where you can buy power can never be democratic.
 
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