Can you be too young for suicide?

  • Yes

    Votes: 61 61.6%
  • No

    Votes: 28 28.3%
  • Other (comment)

    Votes: 10 10.1%

  • Total voters
    99
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T

ThatStateOfMind

Enlightened
Nov 13, 2021
1,052
I'm aware this is a divisive topic here and I'm kind of curious what the general consensus is here. Obviously, there's young people here who want to feel validated on one side, and on the other, there is a logical argument to be made on the developing brain.

Would love for people to vote and share your reasoning if you want in a comment
 
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willitpass

willitpass

Don’t try to offer me help, I’ve tried everything
Mar 10, 2020
2,633
Suicide should be rationally and reasonably thought out beforehand in my opinion. Someone of sound mind who can calmly explain why they wish to die. Ideally they will have made valiant attempts to rectify the situation. By this logic, young children are obviously excluded as they lack the ability to truly think critically. Yes, I know many of us experienced trauma at a young age and grew up too fast, but none of us, no matter the trauma, were truly capable of critical reasoning on that level at 6.

By this logic I would also exclude teenagers, at least until the age of 18. This is where it gets tricky because I had my first attempt at 13 and honestly things haven't changed much at all since then, and I'm ultimately in a worse off state. However at that time I had not tried everything to get better, and my thought process behind what I did was much more blinded by emotion. Teenagers think highly emotionally, and while there is nothing wrong with that, it prevents the ability to logically think through the decision. I am now old enough to be able to sit with you and calmly explain a very rational explanation for why I want to CTB.

I fully acknowledge that teenagers can be in a horrible state, and I am living proof that it does not always get better once the hormones die down. But I just could never justify a minor being old enough to make that decision despite being suicidal by age 10. I attempted and had many near attempts as a minor and wish I had succeeded back then to spare myself, but I know for many they look back and are glad they lived. I think everyone should wait until they are an adult and able to think with a more level head.
 
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H

Hollowman

Empty
Dec 14, 2021
1,226
I wish I would've ctb at 12 years old.
 
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absolutelyyou

absolutelyyou

peaceful
Jul 26, 2023
140
Yes I think there are absolutely ages that I too young. Not to say that someone that is very young cant actually be suffering and strongly desire to not be in their situation by any means necessary but realistically someone needs to have a developed enough brain to understand what "death" really means. When you hear tale of young young kids taking their own lives there is no way they can fully grasp the finality of death. A seven year old is just starting to get a firm grasp on time and how hours and minutes work and getting good at the skill of holding a pencil and writing their own name. Many have experienced no major familial or friend deaths- they are too young to take their own lives because they cant actually understand what that really means.
 
Alexei_Kirillov

Alexei_Kirillov

Missed my appointment with Death
Mar 9, 2024
805
I'm one of the few who voted no, as I don't believe there's anything wrong with impulsive/emotional suicide, nor do I believe in the value of hypothetical future experiences that were "missed out on." Life is not for everyone.
 
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nir

nir

26/F/Canada
Aug 18, 2024
135
Unpopular opinion, but I don't think people should ctb before age 25. Wait until your brain fully develops before making such a drastic decision. But again, very unpopular opinion.
 
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locked*n*loaded

locked*n*loaded

Archangel
Apr 15, 2022
7,264
Sorry if any young people are offended by my beliefs, but there's ample scientific data to suggest that the human brain is not fully developed until around the age of 25, or thereabouts, so my beliefs strongly fall on the side of no one under that age should be taking their life, *possibly* with the exception of extreme physical disability, and I'm even uncomfortable with that to some degree.
 
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SonicFan1994

SonicFan1994

Member
Jun 17, 2024
78
Unpopular opinion, but I don't think people should ctb before age 25. Wait until your brain fully develops before making such a drastic decision. But again, very unpopular opinion.

Lol I said this exact thing in another thread and all the people under 25 came out the woodwork to try to start arguments trying to be as edgy as possible
 
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Just_Another_Person

Just_Another_Person

Student
Sep 16, 2024
131
Yes, no way a 17yo should take their own life (without exceptions like high chronic pain, cancer, etc). The suicide success rate of kids is almost 10 times lower than adults, in most cases they just wanted to "stop the pain" and didn't receive proper support from parents/teachers/friends. About ppl under 25, there is still waaaaay too many chances to turn things around. Will always work? No. But forfeiting your life extremely easy when there are many chances to improve things shouldn't be considered "acceptable" (not blaming the people who ctb) and is extremely sad.
 
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Noct

Noct

L'appel du vide
Sep 1, 2024
15
Personally, I chose other, but because of my complex personal experience/situation.

I'm 19 M (FTM) and while maybe there is 'hope' if I wait things out till my 20's, but that also means forcing myself to miserably live in a body the I can't stand for atleast that many more years while facing possible hate crimes, more slurs and bigotry and more. Not to mention, I may not ever get the money or support to transition for a long time. Worst of all is the possibility that with my unlucky genetics I will never be happy in my body, In which there is no point forcing myself to suffer just for unknown 'happiness' just because I'm a very young adult or don't have a 'developed enough mind' (another statistic use by my somewhat-transphobic parents to dissuade my transition or refuse to acknowledge me).

So my answer is, it 100% depends.
 
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lamargue

lamargue

sleepwalker
Jun 5, 2024
464
well as per site rules, anyone below 18 would be considered a minor. so i believe that is the accepted cutoff

don't really understand why an 18-year-old shouldn't be given that right. discrediting the legitimacy of their decision requires too many assumptions and, moreover, is often quite condescending; it's always yoked up as a competition in which the degree of pain must meet a certain threshold in order for your decision to be respected by the community. even those who are clearly competent enough to rationally deliberate over their decision to commit suicide are simply waved off as incompetent by those who still spit out the same insipid spiel about the 25-year-old brain
 
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Just_Another_Person

Just_Another_Person

Student
Sep 16, 2024
131
Personally, I chose other, but because of my complex personal experience/situation.

I'm 19 M (FTM) and while maybe there is 'hope' if I wait things out till my 20's, but that also means forcing myself to miserably live in a body the I can't stand for atleast that many more years while facing possible hate crimes, more slurs and bigotry and more. Not to mention, I may not ever get the money or support to transition for a long time. Worst of all is the possibility that with my unlucky genetics I will never be happy in my body, In which there is no point forcing myself to suffer just for unknown 'happiness' just because I'm a very young adult or don't have a 'developed enough mind' (another statistic use by my somewhat-transphobic parents to dissuade my transition or refuse to acknowledge me).

So my answer is, it 100% depends.
I'm sorry, this world is way too cruel to trans people and dysphoria is one of the worst things to have. I'm honestly without words on how to try to make you feel better, so I'm just gonna wish that good things happens to you. Not that you need me saying this but I'm gonna say either way: you are who you are, not what others think/say. You are valid and always will be.
 
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po1sentree

po1sentree

ᠭᠤᠨᠢᠭᠲᠠᠢ
Sep 14, 2024
64
No one is ever "too young" to experience feelings of intense despair, sadness, or hopelessness that might lead to thoughts of suicide. These thoughts can affect anyone at any age.
 
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Noct

Noct

L'appel du vide
Sep 1, 2024
15
I'm sorry, this world is way too cruel to trans people and dysphoria is one of the worst things to have. I'm honestly without words on how to try to make you feel better, so I'm just gonna wish that good things happens to you. Not that you need me saying this but I'm gonna say either way: you are who you are, not what others think/say. You are valid and always will be.
I appreciate the sentiments regardless 💙 You've said kinder things to me than almost all of my family ever have
 
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SmallKoy

SmallKoy

Aficionado
Jan 18, 2024
194
Suicide should be rationally and reasonably thought out beforehand in my opinion. Someone of sound mind who can calmly explain why they wish to die. Ideally they will have made valiant attempts to rectify the situation. By this logic, young children are obviously excluded as they lack the ability to truly think critically. Yes, I know many of us experienced trauma at a young age and grew up too fast, but none of us, no matter the trauma, were truly capable of critical reasoning on that level at 6.

By this logic I would also exclude teenagers, at least until the age of 18. This is where it gets tricky because I had my first attempt at 13 and honestly things haven't changed much at all since then, and I'm ultimately in a worse off state. However at that time I had not tried everything to get better, and my thought process behind what I did was much more blinded by emotion. Teenagers think highly emotionally, and while there is nothing wrong with that, it prevents the ability to logically think through the decision. I am now old enough to be able to sit with you and calmly explain a very rational explanation for why I want to CTB.

I fully acknowledge that teenagers can be in a horrible state, and I am living proof that it does not always get better once the hormones die down. But I just could never justify a minor being old enough to make that decision despite being suicidal by age 10. I attempted and had many near attempts as a minor and wish I had succeeded back then to spare myself, but I know for many they look back and are glad they lived. I think everyone should wait until they are an adult and able to think with a more level head.
Thanks for this well written response. I 100% agree. I think everyone should be an adult, and be able to make the level headed decision before suicide. While for lots it's different, plenty of people will get better and find that they still do want to be alive.
No one is ever "too young" to experience feelings of intense despair, sadness, or hopelessness that might lead to thoughts of suicide. These thoughts can affect anyone at any age.
I don't think the question was about experiencing those thoughts and feelings, but rather if someone can be too young to kill themselves.
I'm one of the few who voted no, as I don't believe there's anything wrong with impulsive/emotional suicide, nor do I believe in the value of hypothetical future experiences that were "missed out on." Life is not for everyone.
This is a really interesting take. Why do you take no issue with impulsive suicides? Curious to hear more about your thoughts.
 
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Darkover

Darkover

Angelic
Jul 29, 2021
4,375
well i became suicidal at 18 after a relationship breakup then learning the fact we are just nothing forever made life seem completely pointless i would of absolute made the right choice to ctb because my life never did get any better just worse after 18 all downhill

i think anyone should be allowed ctb all those that want to be free can leave at any time of our choosing
 
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-nobodyknows-

-nobodyknows-

Experienced
Jun 16, 2024
229
I don't know. I was fairly young when I first attempted
 
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EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
2,793
Unpopular opinion, but I don't think people should ctb before age 25. Wait until your brain fully develops before making such a drastic decision. But again, very unpopular opinion.
*Please note that I'm not a neuropsychologist or a neurologist, just some dumbass, so this post might be all over the place*

Development of the prefrontal cortex can continue past the age of 25 and up into your late 20s. 25 is not a magical number. Adult-like decision-making skills (being able to make rational decisions in a way that is comparable to that of an adult) can develop as early as 14 years old. The main issue pertains to the dual decision-making system within the brain: the socioemotional system, which is composed of the limbic and paralimbic structures, and the cognitive-control system, composed of the prefrontal cortex and the parietal cortico structures.

The socioemotional system tends to involve more automatic and quick decision-making that might be more intuitive and impulsive in nature. It plays a major role in reward processing, along with the processing of emotional and social stimuli. The cognitive control system is involved is more deliberate and requires more time and conscious effort. It's involved in self-regulation and planning. The integration between the two systems continues into adulthood, with the socioemotional system developing earlier (during puberty) than the cognitive-control system (extending through late adolescence). The difference in decision-making between adults and adolescents is thought to be due to the developmental gap between these two systems, making adolescents more vulnerable to things, such as peer influence. With that in mind, those under 25 are still technically capable of making rational decisions comparable to adults. It's just that they may have trouble engaging with the more rational parts of the brain under certain conditions.

The whole "Sigma 25 = fully developed brain that can make rational decisions" vs "beta 24-year-old and under brain" is a huge simplification of what is a complex discussion. I think that an 18 is to be given the right to die, but that might be my own biases showing as a 21-year-old. Still, in theory, if assisted dying was legal and accessible to everyone, there would likely be steps taken to ensure that people are making the right decision. These steps would probably aid in deterring those wanting to based on impulse and extra measures could be taken to ensure that those under 25 or 30 are under the right conditions to rationally think through their decision.


Anyway, here is some stuff on the matter of brain development in adolescents and decision-making if you want to read up on it:


 
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R

Roseate

Arcanist
Mar 24, 2021
456
As someone under the age of 25, I think you can be too young for suicide. Now I'm not saying the brain needs to be developed, because let's face it, if we used this argument for suicide, we need to use it for marriage, babies and plenty of other things. Since we will not be doing that, it doesn't work for this argument. I do think some issues can get better with time and others simply don't but it's hard to differentiate between the permanent issues and the temporary issues at certain ages for certain people, so it is safer this way. It doesn't take away from their/our pain or their/our situation or their/our emotions/feelings.
 
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T

Trav1989

Student
Jun 2, 2024
172
As someone under the age of 25, I think you can be too young for suicide. Now I'm not saying the brain needs to be developed, because let's face it, if we used this argument for suicide, we need to use it for marriage, babies and plenty of other things. Since we will not be doing that, it doesn't work for this argument. I do think some issues can get better with time and others simply don't but it's hard to differentiate between the permanent issues and the temporary issues at certain ages for certain people, so it is safer this way. It doesn't take away from their/our pain or their/our situation or their/our emotions/feelings.
I'd say that by 16 you are old enough to know the trajectory your life is likely going to head in. Your nearly done with school and about to head into the workforce and it doesn't really get much better from that point onwards.

I wish I would have CTB back then, could have avoided a lot of trauma to say the least. Sure, I'd lack many experiences I have now but I honestly don't think that's a bad thing because most of them ended badly.

If I could have succeeded in CTB back then I could have left while I was still somewhat intact before the world completely annihilated me.

Would have been nice, now I'm here over twice as old as back then and I can honestly say I'm at the lowest point of my life. I failed at basically everything I ever set out to do and even when I was successful for a time that just made things worse once the inevitable collapse occurred.

The human brain isn't capable of sustained happiness, even if you do everything "right" for years you'll eventually let your guard down and say/do something wrong and then your glass castle comes shattering down far quicker than you could have ever imagined and your left picking up the pieces... again... and again... and again... as you rebuild and it is destroyed ad infinitum until one day you realize something.

"Why do I keep doing this to myself, why do I hold on to false hope, why do I allow myself to suffer by definition of insanity?" and then your at the point in which you can take a left or a right turn because the way ahead is blocked and you can take the path that leads to years or possibly decades of recovery that may or may not pan out or you can take the path that leads to the end of your story and avoid the potential payoff for a few years/decades until you end up in the same place anyways.

I can honestly say that I haven't enjoyed life in years and yeah... I have a couple slivers of hope (we almost always do) because of potential possibilities but what are the odds of them paying off?

I'll have to deal with other people to bring them to fruition. I know that I can manage on my half if need be because I'm a great talker, reasonably attractive, and fairly intelligent but what about the other party/parties involved?

I already know that I'm never going to even have a chance at happiness being alone and having potential one night stands which means I'll need to find a woman (I am a straight male) who is loving, kind, honest, and patient and what exactly are the odds of that? I've dated over a dozen women in my life and all of them have lacked one or more traits needed for a happy and healthy marriage. My ex-wife was uncouth, which I could deal with and accepted and I knew that would be an issue but she hid the fact that she was unfaithful for a long time, which I couldn't deal with as I hadn't known she was a prostitute prior and blatantly lied to me saying she only had been with a handful of guys which I accepted as nobody is perfect. Had I known she slept with well over 100 different men prior to our marriage and would continue doing so during it I would have never accepted her hand in such.

I also acknowledge that I'm not perfect by any means and have a plethora of flaws ranging from being too honest, vanity, not being down to Earth, being a thinker instead of a doer, and i tend to turn every small thing into rocket science unnecessarily.

But on a positive note I can connect the dots and notice correlations rather quickly which may lead to me being "paranoid" but more often than not that "paranoia" isn't paranoia whatsoever.

All of us humans are vastly flawed and we'll never be happy for longer than the blink of an eye and we'll always be chasing the next high regardless of what it is. Contentedness is a foreign concept to us as human, the moment we manage to claim what we desire we want more and more until there is nothing left to take or we make a single misstep which leads to an inevitable collapse.

How many times must we do things over? Many say we must do whatever it takes and pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, I disagree personally.


Nothing in relation to the human condition changes much from your teens all the way through your advanced years other than you'll become more used to successes and failures at the cost of nostalgia clouding your judgement and developing a generalized "numbness" as you mark more and more off of your figurative bucket list.

Oh, and you'll be in more and more physical pain and discomfort as the years progress while your outer AND inner beauty fade and your left with fading memories and stories related to them that you can tell others who most likely do not honestly care and are just listening to placate you, pass the time, or out of familial obligation/friendship upkeep.

. So I can honestly and without a shadow of doubt digress that at 16 I was more than valid in regards to my reasoning leading to my failed decision(s) to CTB no less than I was now at 35.

If anything my decision was more valid back then because I could have avoided many years of suffering but I chose to listen to elder people who claimed "things will get better".

Well, I paid infinitely more taxes so I guess that things id get better some entities so there is that.
 
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permanently tired

permanently tired

I know you're laughing
Nov 8, 2023
174
You can do everything except drink at 18 (in america at least) so 18. I think people are getting too technical with this brain development jargon.
 
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A

athiestjoe

Member
Sep 24, 2024
75
18 is probably is a good threshold age just due to the still developing brain function. In some EU and other countries the age to drink/consent/or do other "grown up" things is as low at like 16 though.. In the US the drinking age is 21 just because of nationwide goals but for everything else from military service, voting, consent etc is 18. Somewhere in that range is probably sufficient using the same thinking for making other life critical decisions such as voting or serving in armed forces I feel.
 
F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
8,786
It's a very tricky subject. Are you refering to assisted suicide- as in- it should be available to all? Or, are you refering to effectively judging someone for taking their own life at a young age?

I was a suicidal minor. I began having ideation aged 10. I'd make one argument that- many people here have had ideation from early childhood. Did it really benefit us to stick around?!! That's not to say no one will get better but, I think suicidal thoughts tend to lodge in our brains once they're there. Is someone with a life so problematic that early on that they consider suicide, all that likely to be a care free adult? I'm not sure...

In terms of a child taking their own life, I think of it as heart breaking and tragic more than wrong or illogical. That's not to encourage it. I would say that we may not have quite the same capability to deal with situations when we are young. Maybe not quite the same cognitive skills to fully work out how we can solve our problems. But still- it's undoubtable they must have been suffering greatly to do that. So- I wouldn't point and call it/ them stupid for instance. Suicide to me is the most extreme reaction to very likely an extremely painful circumstance.

It's kind of belittling to more or less suggest that a child is incapable of feeling that much pain. Clearly they are. The worry is that they may be having too extreme of a reaction I suppose but- surely, we can apply that to adults too? Not everyone here will be able to fully comprehend another's motives for wanting to go.

I would say that with a child being suicidal, it seems possible that at least part of the problem will be either home and family life or early school life. In which cases- both could potentially be escaped from if the person is able to move away as an adult. So, I suppose that is one argument for them holding on.

When it comes to assisted suicide though, I think there does need to be regulation. Unless there are extenuating circumstances- eg. an incurable medical condition, I think 18+ is a suitable age. Maybe the brain still won't have fully grown by that stage but, we're allowed to make most life changing decisions by then. So, if we're trusted to be able to do that, I feel like assisted suicide should be the same.

Just in terms of practicality too. I think people are being massively naive if they really think families would support an assisted suicide programe that would kill their children with or without their knowledge. It just wouldn't be sustainable.
 
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enduringwinter

enduringwinter

flower, water
Jun 20, 2024
301
Where I'm from there was a middle school student who jumped to his death and the overwhelming sentiment was sympathy for his circumstances. In China too there was a kid who jumped out of his mom's car into the Huangpu river and people were sympathetic. Sometimes it's just bad enough that people understand the children who choose to opt out.
 
Alexei_Kirillov

Alexei_Kirillov

Missed my appointment with Death
Mar 9, 2024
805
This is a really interesting take. Why do you take no issue with impulsive suicides? Curious to hear more about your thoughts.
The way I see it, the only grounds for being against impulsive suicide is the belief--whether you're aware of it or not--that life has an innate, positive value. From this perspective, it makes sense to discourage impulsive suicide, because it amounts to prematurely robbing someone of something valuable, ie. a good life, or even the possibility of a good life.

But if you take that assumption away, if you don't believe that death deprives anyone of anything because it's simply a state of harmless nothingness, then what reason is there to oppose a choice someone made in the heat of the moment to end their pain? Clearly they must've been experiencing a great deal of suffering. When the cost of death is zero but the cost of intense suffering, however temporary, is extremely high, I'm certainly not going to be the one to tell you to choose the latter. I may have a personal preference for being very deliberate with my own CTB, but that's all it is: a personal preference, not to be imposed on anyone.

That's the gist of my argument but there are some other more minor points, like the fact that I don't believe in any "true self" that would've made a different decision; the decision to kill yourself in that moment is as much your own decision as the decision not to would be a week later. It's all you. Or the fact that a lot of so-called "impulsive suicides" are moreso a situation of a straw breaking the camel's back, ie. the decision to CTB had been building over a long time and did not come out of nowhere. What may appear to us as an impulsive decision might have actually been long premeditated, you can't know unless you can get inside their brain.
 
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finallydone

finallydone

Member
Aug 18, 2024
27
no is my answer, for the simple reason that i was in a car accident when i was 12, and can't even count the times i wished to die back then afterwards
 
Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
20,662
Well babies aren't usually able to move their hands and feet well until they're at least a few months old. That and the fact that they are also probably unable to even form complete thoughts let alone suicidal ones means that there is such a thing as too young to commit suicide.
 
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Soph

Soph

Lost Citizen
Sep 9, 2024
11
Terminal illness kids with pain should be free to choose. Above that only when reach the 16/17 were the maturity normaly is reached.
 
Talvikki

Talvikki

Warlock
Nov 18, 2021
772
In the country where I live, anyone aged 12 and older can request euthanasia including for mental suffering (psychiatric conditions).

Last year, I saw a 17-year-old girl on Dutch TV who got euthanasia because of mental suffering.

When the psychiatrist asked her what she would say to people who think she is too young, her response was that it's not about age, but about the suffering.
 
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ham and potatoes

ham and potatoes

Just some hillbilly
Mar 27, 2024
341
Unpopular opinion, but I don't think people should ctb before age 25. Wait until your brain fully develops before making such a drastic decision. But again, very unpopular opinion.
Im with ya there.
Wait til your brain is developed, and youve actually experienced life as an adult, as maby you just had a shitty childhood, and things might get better after you get away from your family
Unless, you know, you have some awful disease or something
 
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