Discussion Intrusive vs accepted ideation.

[Forever Sleep]

Years ago, I was going through a particularly rough patch and went to see a college therapist. They referred me to my GP for some antidepressants (which did nothing.)

The doctor was actually very nice and sympathetic but something she said has always stuck in my head: That I was issolated and in a vulnerable state which put me at risk of acting on my thoughts and- 'Wouldn't that be a shame?' It struck me that she and maybe the majority of pro-lifers must think that we experience ideation as intrusive thoughts. Maybe some people do but I certainly don't and pretty much never have. I was certainly scared the first time I had them- I was only 10. But I never thought it would be a 'shame' if I died. Not for me anyhow! I recognise it would upset other people though- that's why I'm still here. I wanted to say- it wouldn't be a shame, it would be a relief but I didn't want to risk a trip to a psyche ward.

I had one of those welfare checks after the whole IC SN business. The police didn't want to leave before putting me in touch with a helpline. I agreed and they phoned me. I kept telling them I was fine- to get rid of them. Again- the first lady I spoke to was nice. But again- it was a case of- 'Don't you think we should talk about these disturbing thoughts you are having?' Well- no- because they aren't disturbing to me! The only thing that is disturbing is the difficulty in acting on them. I'm stuck here because I don't want to upset my Dad. Practicality wise- due to not being given the freedom to bodily autonomy, I'm stuck with some shady curing salt to perform some risky experiement with- with no idea on how it might actually affect me. That's disturbing definitely but- as needs must ultimately.

Anyhow- I wonder how many ways there are of experiencing ideation. And I wonder if pro-lifers ever register that some of us are completely at ease with these thoughts. I guess they think that percentage of us are simply crazy. It's an easy opt out really. Just call someone deranged and you don't have to argue with them anymore.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Funny how people who value other people's lives more than the ones those lives belong to love to impose their will.

There are terms in psychology for what you are describing: ego-dystonic and ego-syntonic

Definition of ego-syntonic: In harmony with or acceptable to the needs and goals of the ego, or consistent with a person's ideal self-image.

Ego-dystonic would entail the opposite of that.

People who work in MH don't generally understand ego-syntonic suicidal thoughts even though psychologists came up with the damn term themselves.

 

[SpiritualDeath]

It's kind of funny that I'm actually feeling better with suicidal ideation (compared with before).

When I "wanted to live" (the pro-lifer's way) I always felt that something was off. Like, I was living just like anyone else, "normally", but always felt that something was very wrong. Everything I was doing, every attitude I had towards life, was somehow fundamentally flawed. I didn't know what exactly was wrong at that time and I couldn't ignore the feeling. That was what's actually disturbing for me. It gave me quite a lot of anxiety, fear, shame, etc.

Pro-lifers (and therapists) did nothing but confusing me even more. I went to a therapist once and she always said things like "oh this is normal", "this is useful", "life's just like this", etc. I wasn't even suicidal at that time, but I already felt that she didn't know shit.

Now I understand that they're just too okay with the all the suffering in life, and with life itself. I've never really had this pro-lifer mindset, no wonder I get nothing from bs like "validating my feelings", "seeing how suffering is useful", etc.

Accepting death and suicidal ideation is like finding a missing piece. Nothing shameful and disturbing about that.

 

[FuneralCry]

In my case I see wanting to die as all that makes sense, those pro-life people just sound so deluded as ceasing to exist is actually something relieving. It comforts me the thought of eternally not existing, what disturbs me is the thought of suffering in this hellish existence instead, for me death means peace.

A lot of pro-lifers are so brainwashed into believing wanting suicide is "irrational" when in reality existence is the true problem rather than the thoughts of suicide. It's like those people forget that we are all just going to die anyway but of course there's so much anti-suicide brainwashing as the society needs slaves.

 

[リンさん]

Ideation in general isn't the way I would describe my suicidality.

It's just a way I exercise my right to die. Some people want to see it all and live till they die "naturally" - that's fine, I guess. I don't understand it, but whatever. The world we live in is objectively fucked, even if you don't have to be faced with the reality of war, famine and discrimination. It's not fit for me. That doesn't mean there's absolutely nothing to enjoy. If it was the case, I wouldn't be here typing this.

It's just that, I don't want to live a long life. I don't want to figure shit out when I'm 40, 50, 60 and so on. I don't want to age, become weaker than I already am, acquire even more diseases than I do now. What's the point of that? Occasional happy chemical release? Does that really outweigh all the struggles and stressors in one's life? Not at all, in my opinion.

I get that my judgement is clouded by having a mental disability, but I'm thinking perfectly clear. I've always thought this way. It's normal to me. I'm actually looking forward to dying. I can't be helped, and I don't want to be.

 

[Orange Cat]

I haven't found the thoughts themselves scary either. I've just accepted that I will always have these thoughts in the background. They are actually comforting on some level because I know that I have a way out if I need it.

One thing that MH professionals don't understand is chronic idealation. They don't understand that some people can have suicidal thoughts for months or even years and not act on it. They think that if someone doesn't act on it the thoughts either went away or else the person wasn't serious and was just seeking attention.

One time a crisis worker told me that she knows that having suicidal thoughts is very scary and distressing, When I told her that having these thoughts weren't scary to me, she was shocked. She told me that I must be exhausted trying to fight these thoughts off all the time. I told her that I wasn't trying to fight the thoughts. I had these thoughts for some time and just accepted that I would always have them. She asked me how long I had these thoughts for. When I told her that I have had these thoughts for several years, she didn't believe me. She insisted that no one could have constant suicidal thoughts for years. She said that there are studies that prove that suicidal thoughts are time limited and usually go away in an hour or so.

 

[Forever Sleep]

She said that there are studies that prove that suicidal thoughts are time limited and usually go away in an hour or so.

I wonder how many people they asked... Clearly no one from here! Some members have been on here for years! I've had ideation to varying degrees for 33 years. It certainly hasn't been to the same intensity all that time. Sometimes, it's been more passive ideation but other times it's been much more active. It's never entirely gone away though. She sounds like she had a very narrow view of what a suicidal person is. Bizarre when she must be dealing with people from all walks of life.

If I'm honest, it played into my favour. When I had the welness check, I was up to my neck in work. The police officers seemed reasured by that. That maybe they thought that truly suicidal people just sit in a corner rocking back and forth or something. I reckon there are loads of 'high functioning' depressives and suicidalists out there.

Again- I think it plays into the whole thing of- you have to be deranged and not functioning properly to think like this. That- having these thoughts should drive you crazy if you can't act on them. They are certainly incredibly frustrating to have and not feel able to act on. I reckon it depends on the person's circumstances though. Plenty of people who are suicidal are maybe more anhedonic rather than in intense pain. Seeing as suicide has the potential to be intensely painful and have terrible consequences if it fails- that can well be enough to put people off. In which case, we just get ourselves stuck in this weird limbo- sometimes for years or even decades.

 

[Ksmиda]

Exactly, these thoughts aren't intrusive. They're more like feelings - for example, when you're hungry, you think of eating. It's almost the same as this - when you want to ctb, you think of death. It's hard to explain unless you experience it.

 

[ayb]

Years ago, I was going through a particularly rough patch and went to see a college therapist. They referred me to my GP for some antidepressants (which did nothing.)

The doctor was actually very nice and sympathetic but something she said has always stuck in my head: That I was issolated and in a vulnerable state which put me at risk of acting on my thoughts and- 'Wouldn't that be a shame?' It struck me that she and maybe the majority of pro-lifers must think that we experience ideation as intrusive thoughts. Maybe some people do but I certainly don't and pretty much never have. I was certainly scared the first time I had them- I was only 10. But I never thought it would be a 'shame' if I died. Not for me anyhow! I recognise it would upset other people though- that's why I'm still here. I wanted to say- it wouldn't be a shame, it would be a relief but I didn't want to risk a trip to a psyche ward.

I had one of those welfare checks after the whole IC SN business. The police didn't want to leave before putting me in touch with a helpline. I agreed and they phoned me. I kept telling them I was fine- to get rid of them. Again- the first lady I spoke to was nice. But again- it was a case of- 'Don't you think we should talk about these disturbing thoughts you are having?' Well- no- because they aren't disturbing to me! The only thing that is disturbing is the difficulty in acting on them. I'm stuck here because I don't want to upset my Dad. Practicality wise- due to not being given the freedom to bodily autonomy, I'm stuck with some shady curing salt to perform some risky experiement with- with no idea on how it might actually affect me. That's disturbing definitely but- as needs must ultimately.

Anyhow- I wonder how many ways there are of experiencing ideation. And I wonder if pro-lifers ever register that some of us are completely at ease with these thoughts. I guess they think that percentage of us are simply crazy. It's an easy opt out really. Just call someone deranged and you don't have to argue with them anymore.

This quote sums up my feelings to a tee. I've had suicidal ideation since I was a child. It's never bothered or disturbed me to be honest. I find it immensely comforting to know I can kill myself at any time I want to.