Venting Instead of focusing on the root cause, real reasons, or driving factors for people CTB'ing...

[TAW122]

Instead of focusing on the root problems or cause for suicide, suicide preventionists (and pro-lifers, anti-choicers) only focus on the symptoms and also have this stupid belief that suicide is a result of mental illnesses and what not and then go down the line of reasoning that because suicide is a symptom of mental illnesses and because mental illnesses can be treated, therefore suicide is always wrong and never an option. However I disagree with that line of reasoning and popular belief (as well as most of us pro-choicers on here), so let's take a step back and look at why people CTB.

Most people don't just wake up one day and decide, well I just want to CTB. There is usually a cause(s) for it (and mostly it isn't due to mental illnesses, but rather external causes such as the people around them, their environment, and personal circumstances (including beliefs and philosophies on life, outlook on life in general)). With that said, suicide preventionists don't focus their efforts on the root causes or problems as to "why" someone would want to CTB, but rather the symptoms (wanting to CTB), therefore, not really solving the problem but only inconveniencing the suicidal and even potentially making things worse (pushing the suicidal over the edge, resulting in him/her then 'actually' following through, or worse). If instead, they focused on "why" the suicidal person would want to (external factors, personal circumstances, and more), then WORK to change, modify, or improve conditions that lead people to want to CTB, they would have more success in helping people recover and have overall less people CTB'ing, attempting to CTB, and/or cases. But the problem is they want to play dumb (ignorant) and point the blame at anything and everything but their system, the society, and the environment while sticking it to the suicidal person (by persecution, censorship, gaslighting, and even flagrant violation of human rights - most of which would be illegal under normal circumstances (kidnapping, violent force, forced drugging, excessive and predatory billing, violation of the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th, possible 8th amendment - due to the cruel and barbaric treatment, possibly worse than they treat convicted criminals. ).) Of course, changing the system would require everyone's effort but since it's too much and they enjoy the status quo (pretending to care but don't give a shit, while acting morally superior and sticking it to the person who is already down and push them over the edge), change is unlikely.

Now I get there are two counter-arguments (which deserve their own threads and topics if elaborating and discussing them further in greater detail but) I will briefly present them and address them here. The first one is the "suicidal people regret it" counter-argument towards pro-choice and for that, I will say that they don't regret the attempt but rather the consequences of failure which include the (potentially permanent) damage to their body, the psych ward and getting prisoner treatment, the social stigma and implications of their attempt, and of course, medical bills (applicable in the US at least). Then the second counter-argument pro-lifers use against pro-choicers is the "many attempted CTB'ers or would be CTB'ers (people who haven't attempted but planned and was stopped before they could act) don't go on to re-attempt and live good lives, they got better, etc.". This is loaded counter-argument and I'll dissect the main parts here. First off, it is presumptuous and arrogant to assume that all of them enjoy lives and things got better, then of course, there is a bias (selection, confirmation, positivity, whatever you call it, etc.) that excludes the sample size of those that did 'NOT' get better and/or went to reattempt. The thing is when you hear about many successes, there are (usually) many more failures before that and since it's bad news/negative news, and doesn't fit their 'agenda' of pro-life successes.

In another thread, I have suggested changes to the policy, procedure/protocol, and system that would be more beneficial to the patient and actually helping people who may otherwise be on the edge. It would also destigmatize and incentivize people who may otherwise not want help to then want help, especially if they know there is not the risk of being incarcerated or locked up for simply having a plan, means, and intention to CTB and is able to talk about CTB freely (similar to that of an open dialogue), without persecution, judgment, and censorship.

I'm sure there are a lot of us here that can relate to what I wrote here.

 

[UnluckyFew]

Well written!

It's all a bad farce. I'd laugh at it if it didn't cause so many horrendous consequences to the victims of this system. You're allowed to dislike a lot, but never life itself. Life is mandatory fun time. Mandatory and fun don't belong in the same sentence you say? Exactly.

 

[Worthless_nobody]

Very well said! I 100% relate. I feel like society doesn't focus on my situation and circumstances that lead me to my descision to ctb. Instead they chalk up to "mental illness" or a chemical imbalance. Drs ignorantly think an ssri will solve my problems but it's life, bad luck, trauma, grief and unobtainable dreams that have lead me to this point. If some of life's issues got fixed like free healthcare (US), a guaranteed job, a livable wage, safe affordable housing then that would go further to helping people instead of just slapping them in psych prisons. The blame is always laid on the suicidal person not the true causes like society or an un- sustainable life due to bad circumstances. No one just wakes up suicidal there was some bad event/s that pushed them there.

Society also acts like "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" ...bs. Its been life long for me this isn't temporary (for example I have Asperger's and repeated traumas). They just back us into a corner and ctb becomes the only option. It's cruel and ironic that I can get more things to ctb with than help myself live.

 

[Donk]

Instead of focusing on the root problems or cause for suicide, suicide preventionists (and pro-lifers, anti-choicers) only focus on the symptoms and also have this stupid belief that suicide is a result of mental illnesses and what not and then go down the line of reasoning that because suicide is a symptom of mental illnesses and because mental illnesses can be treated, therefore suicide is always wrong and never an option. However I disagree with that line of reasoning and popular belief (as well as most of us pro-choicers on here), so let's take a step back and look at why people CTB.

Most people don't just wake up one day and decide, well I just want to CTB. There is usually a cause(s) for it (and mostly it isn't due to mental illnesses, but rather external causes such as the people around them, their environment, and personal circumstances (including beliefs and philosophies on life, outlook on life in general)). With that said, suicide preventionists don't focus their efforts on the root causes or problems as to "why" someone would want to CTB, but rather the symptoms (wanting to CTB), therefore, not really solving the problem but only inconveniencing the suicidal and even potentially making things worse (pushing the suicidal over the edge, resulting in him/her then 'actually' following through, or worse). If instead, they focused on "why" the suicidal person would want to (external factors, personal circumstances, and more), then WORK to change, modify, or improve conditions that lead people to want to CTB, they would have more success in helping people recover and have overall less people CTB'ing, attempting to CTB, and/or cases. But the problem is they want to play dumb (ignorant) and point the blame at anything and everything but their system, the society, and the environment while sticking it to the suicidal person (by persecution, censorship, gaslighting, and even flagrant violation of human rights - most of which would be illegal under normal circumstances (kidnapping, violent force, forced drugging, excessive and predatory billing, violation of the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th, possible 8th amendment - due to the cruel and barbaric treatment, possibly worse than they treat convicted criminals. ).) Of course, changing the system would require everyone's effort but since it's too much and they enjoy the status quo (pretending to care but don't give a shit, while acting morally superior and sticking it to the person who is already down and push them over the edge), change is unlikely.

Now I get there are two counter-arguments (which deserve their own threads and topics if elaborating and discussing them further in greater detail but) I will briefly present them and address them here. The first one is the "suicidal people regret it" counter-argument towards pro-choice and for that, I will say that they don't regret the attempt but rather the consequences of failure which include the (potentially permanent) damage to their body, the psych ward and getting prisoner treatment, the social stigma and implications of their attempt, and of course, medical bills (applicable in the US at least). Then the second counter-argument pro-lifers use against pro-choicers is the "many attempted CTB'ers or would be CTB'ers (people who haven't attempted but planned and was stopped before they could act) don't go on to re-attempt and live good lives, they got better, etc.". This is loaded counter-argument and I'll dissect the main parts here. First off, it is presumptuous and arrogant to assume that all of them enjoy lives and things got better, then of course, there is a bias (selection, confirmation, positivity, whatever you call it, etc.) that excludes the sample size of those that did 'NOT' get better and/or went to reattempt. The thing is when you hear about many successes, there are (usually) many more failures before that and since it's bad news/negative news, and doesn't fit their 'agenda' of pro-life successes.

In another thread, I have suggested changes to the policy, procedure/protocol, and system that would be more beneficial to the patient and actually helping people who may otherwise be on the edge. It would also destigmatize and incentivize people who may otherwise not want help to then want help, especially if they know there is not the risk of being incarcerated or locked up for simply having a plan, means, and intention to CTB and is able to talk about CTB freely (similar to that of an open dialogue), without persecution, judgment, and censorship.

I'm sure there are a lot of us here that can relate to what I wrote here.

 

[Broken Chimera]

Well said! They never look at the real causes. Some people's lives have been destroyed. What's their response to someone trying to escape? Lock em up and dope em up, then force them to pay for their incarceration. Who would be grateful for that?

The only way the system will change is when enough forced lifers understand how flawed this system is first hand. It's not always a chemical imbalance. Some people literally lost everything and suicide is a rational decision to an irrational problem. No amount of drugs and platitudes will fix it.

 

[tireddreamer]

Then the second counter-argument pro-lifers use against pro-choicers is the "many attempted CTB'ers or would be CTB'ers (people who haven't attempted but planned and was stopped before they could act) don't go on to re-attempt and live good lives, they got better, etc.". This is loaded counter-argument and I'll dissect the main parts here. First off, it is presumptuous and arrogant to assume that all of them enjoy lives and things got better, then of course, there is a bias (selection, confirmation, positivity, whatever you call it, etc.) that excludes the sample size of those that did 'NOT' get better and/or went to reattempt. The thing is when you hear about many successes, there are (usually) many more failures before that and since it's bad news/negative news, and doesn't fit their 'agenda' of pro-life successes.

Another source of selection bias is the fact that some attempts are done on an impulse, or actually are a cry for help. These people tend to go with less lethal or poorly planned methods. People who spend time deliberating, planning, and truly want to die are much more likely to be successful. And of course we don't hear from them.

 

[Eren]

Completely agree, if psychiatry were to focus more on the motive and try to fix it instead of just giving medication, it would help the patient a lot.

 

[ithappens]

"many attempted CTB'ers or would be CTB'ers (people who haven't attempted but planned and was stopped before they could act) don't go on to re-attempt and live good lives, they got better, etc.".

Pro-Life Propaganda: "People who attempt suicide and survive usually regret it and go on to live happy, fulfilling lives!"
Also Pro-Life Propaganda: "One of the biggest signs that someone might commit suicide is prior attempt(s)."

???????


Also really cool that on a lot of suicide prevention sites they mention that there can be many causes for suicide, but then mention (usually) only depression or drug use as examples. Because god forbid we mention things like poverty, abuse, injustices, lack of kindness or compassion in our own communities, etc, etc.

 

[Halnas]

If the cause is that the world just isn't perfect and that some people just draw the shorter straw or just aren't as scared about death as others and see suicide as a legit option... how would you fight that? They are fighting symptoms because it is the easy way.

And Psychology is just nonsense, they are still in the stone age. They still have no idea and act by trial and error. Read about the believes of Freud and about how the ink blob test got declared bullshit but is still used by them as a reference. You have to be a psycho yourself to study that. Those are the people who believed that lobotomy can heal schizophrenia.

I do agree that the viewpoint that you have to be mentally ill to try to commit suicide is bullshit.
But here it is also not black&white, because suicide is against the law in some countries and declared as something that just mentally ill people do in order for the police or ambulance to actually act if they see a person that is about to jump off a bridge.
If that wouldn't be the case, you could in theory sue the person that forcefully stops you from suicide. That's a funny thought tbh.

Pro-Life Propaganda: "People who attempt suicide and survive usually regret it and go on to live happy, fulfilling lives!"

Oh god, how much i hate that statement.

If you say that you don't feel suicidal anymore, the Dr is happy because he accomplished something, you are happy because you are out of there, the mental hospital is happy because you don't occupy their room anymore and pro-lifers are happy because they saved a life and their theory is proven correct.
Everybody is happy, but everybody knows that you will attempt it again.

 

[JacobsCracker]

I don't blame people for platitudes etc as its all they can do past a certain point. I'm here mainly from abusively family and resulting Heath conditions. It's annoying how it's all down to me to fix it, that people are listening and offering solutions which were needed years earlier to prevent this. It's horrendous how good people get hurt and maggots can get away with things.

 

[Deleted member 14573]

Not to mention that if you attempt suicide and fail, you will be locked up in a psych ward with essentially all of your rights revoked until you are deemed safe to leave. This means that people like myself who plan their suicide will ensure they will not be discovered and saved just to avoid that outcome.

Everybody deserves autonomy over their own bodies, even if they are going to harm themselves.

 

[TAW122]

Well written!

It's all a bad farce. I'd laugh at it if it didn't cause so many horrendous consequences to the victims of this system. You're allowed to dislike a lot, but never life itself. Life is mandatory fun time. Mandatory and fun don't belong in the same sentence you say? Exactly.

I like your analogy, if something is mandatory, then it is no longer fun nor by choice but by obligation and requirement (for failure to meet that obligation or requirement carries some consequence(s) depending on who's in charge).

Very well said! I 100% relate. I feel like society doesn't focus on my situation and circumstances that lead me to my descision to ctb. Instead they chalk up to "mental illness" or a chemical imbalance. Drs ignorantly think an ssri will solve my problems but it's life, bad luck, trauma, grief and unobtainable dreams that have lead me to this point. If some of life's issues got fixed like free healthcare (US), a guaranteed job, a livable wage, safe affordable housing then that would go further to helping people instead of just slapping them in psych prisons. The blame is always laid on the suicidal person not the true causes like society or an un- sustainable life due to bad circumstances. No one just wakes up suicidal there was some bad event/s that pushed them there.

Society also acts like "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" ...bs. Its been life long for me this isn't temporary (for example I have Asperger's and repeated traumas). They just back us into a corner and ctb becomes the only option. It's cruel and ironic that I can get more things to ctb with than help myself live.

Very good quality post. I believe that the attitude and the way suicidal people are seen, handled, treated are no better than how disenfranchised people of the past were treated. It's sad that even the once disenfranchised minority in a society who were treated poorly are treated 'better' today than (genuinely) suicidal people.

Well said! They never look at the real causes. Some people's lives have been destroyed. What's their response to someone trying to escape? Lock em up and dope em up, then force them to pay for their incarceration. Who would be grateful for that?

The only way the system will change is when enough forced lifers understand how flawed this system is first hand. It's not always a chemical imbalance. Some people literally lost everything and suicide is a rational decision to an irrational problem. No amount of drugs and platitudes will fix it.

Exactly, and even some people IRL are so hard headed that they oppose anything that involves CTB'ing even in most dire circumstances (I had people who oppose assisted suicide or death with dignity even for people who are terminally ill, especially the religious).

Another source of selection bias is the fact that some attempts are done on an impulse, or actually are a cry for help. These people tend to go with less lethal or poorly planned methods. People who spend time deliberating, planning, and truly want to die are much more likely to be successful. And of course we don't hear from them.

True, especially the latter group of people, the ones who plan it carefully, have "actual" lethal methods, and go through with it 100% the way through. I think part of the reason may be due to bad public image for mass media and also unless the person is a celebrity, you just won't even hear it in the newspapers at all..

Pro-Life Propaganda: "People who attempt suicide and survive usually regret it and go on to live happy, fulfilling lives!"
Also Pro-Life Propaganda: "One of the biggest signs that someone might commit suicide is prior attempt(s)."

???????


Also really cool that on a lot of suicide prevention sites they mention that there can be many causes for suicide, but then mention (usually) only depression or drug use as examples. Because god forbid we mention things like poverty, abuse, injustices, lack of kindness or compassion in our own communities, etc, etc.

Yep that's the problem, they will point and blame everything and anything else but the obvious root causes. Until they acknowledge and start to work towards fixing that, sadly there will be just as many (perhaps even more) who actually CTB and instead of reaching out, they do it underground. I believe that these groups are mostly just for show and are virtue signaling though.

If you say that you don't feel suicidal anymore, the Dr is happy because he accomplished something, you are happy because you are out of there, the mental hospital is happy because you don't occupy their room anymore and pro-lifers are happy because they saved a life and their theory is proven correct.
Everybody is happy, but everybody knows that you will attempt it again.

Interesting point. So it seems like even the pro-lifers know that the suicidal will (inevitably die by their own hand, or at least reattempt and more seriously than before, and without warning) still CTB, but they act like they don't know or care perhaps? If what you said is true, then that means these pro-lifers may even be more malignant than before because they don't even support their own stance but their selfish motives.

I don't blame people for platitudes etc as its all they can do past a certain point. I'm here mainly from abusively family and resulting Heath conditions. It's annoying how it's all down to me to fix it, that people are listening and offering solutions which were needed years earlier to prevent this. It's horrendous how good people get hurt and maggots can get away with things.

In a sense, that is true. However, I only wished people were more frank and honest, but I guess to avoid sounding like asshole, people will rather lie about things so they don't have to deal with the truth. Also, yes, the world is indeed unfair and it's ironic how most pro-lifers and anti-choicers know and believe this, yet cling onto the notion that life is worth living, the latter, of course.

Not to mention that if you attempt suicide and fail, you will be locked up in a psych ward with essentially all of your rights revoked until you are deemed safe to leave. This means that people like myself who plan their suicide will ensure they will not be discovered and saved just to avoid that outcome.

Everybody deserves autonomy over their own bodies, even if they are going to harm themselves.

This is true and it's something that isn't mentioned in society, that people who attempt oftenly get locked up against their will (might be common knowledge?) and treated like (worse than) a criminal. I too have planned my CTB in great detail to avoid any room or chance for error, failure. Of course, nothing is a absolute 100% guarantee and one can only control so much that sometimes external factors are simply just going to be there to screw up our plans and efforts.

 

[Pryras]

Couldn't have said it better. No one wants to address the root cause or truly "help" I'm not mentally ill, I don't suffer from major depressive disorder, I'm just hurting.

I'm no expert or claim to be, but I'm studying to become a cognitive behavioural therapist. I want to help others, and I believe that I possess the empathy and understanding to do that without the patronizing having been through and experiencing my own pain

 

[Partial-Elf]

Instead of focusing on the root problems or cause for suicide, suicide preventionists (and pro-lifers, anti-choicers) only focus on the symptoms and also have this stupid belief that suicide is a result of mental illnesses and what not and then go down the line of reasoning that because suicide is a symptom of mental illnesses and because mental illnesses can be treated, therefore suicide is always wrong and never an option. However I disagree with that line of reasoning and popular belief (as well as most of us pro-choicers on here), so let's take a step back and look at why people CTB.

Most people don't just wake up one day and decide, well I just want to CTB. There is usually a cause(s) for it (and mostly it isn't due to mental illnesses, but rather external causes such as the people around them, their environment, and personal circumstances (including beliefs and philosophies on life, outlook on life in general)). With that said, suicide preventionists don't focus their efforts on the root causes or problems as to "why" someone would want to CTB, but rather the symptoms (wanting to CTB), therefore, not really solving the problem but only inconveniencing the suicidal and even potentially making things worse (pushing the suicidal over the edge, resulting in him/her then 'actually' following through, or worse). If instead, they focused on "why" the suicidal person would want to (external factors, personal circumstances, and more), then WORK to change, modify, or improve conditions that lead people to want to CTB, they would have more success in helping people recover and have overall less people CTB'ing, attempting to CTB, and/or cases. But the problem is they want to play dumb (ignorant) and point the blame at anything and everything but their system, the society, and the environment while sticking it to the suicidal person (by persecution, censorship, gaslighting, and even flagrant violation of human rights - most of which would be illegal under normal circumstances (kidnapping, violent force, forced drugging, excessive and predatory billing, violation of the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th, possible 8th amendment - due to the cruel and barbaric treatment, possibly worse than they treat convicted criminals. ).) Of course, changing the system would require everyone's effort but since it's too much and they enjoy the status quo (pretending to care but don't give a shit, while acting morally superior and sticking it to the person who is already down and push them over the edge), change is unlikely.

Now I get there are two counter-arguments (which deserve their own threads and topics if elaborating and discussing them further in greater detail but) I will briefly present them and address them here. The first one is the "suicidal people regret it" counter-argument towards pro-choice and for that, I will say that they don't regret the attempt but rather the consequences of failure which include the (potentially permanent) damage to their body, the psych ward and getting prisoner treatment, the social stigma and implications of their attempt, and of course, medical bills (applicable in the US at least). Then the second counter-argument pro-lifers use against pro-choicers is the "many attempted CTB'ers or would be CTB'ers (people who haven't attempted but planned and was stopped before they could act) don't go on to re-attempt and live good lives, they got better, etc.". This is loaded counter-argument and I'll dissect the main parts here. First off, it is presumptuous and arrogant to assume that all of them enjoy lives and things got better, then of course, there is a bias (selection, confirmation, positivity, whatever you call it, etc.) that excludes the sample size of those that did 'NOT' get better and/or went to reattempt. The thing is when you hear about many successes, there are (usually) many more failures before that and since it's bad news/negative news, and doesn't fit their 'agenda' of pro-life successes.

In another thread, I have suggested changes to the policy, procedure/protocol, and system that would be more beneficial to the patient and actually helping people who may otherwise be on the edge. It would also destigmatize and incentivize people who may otherwise not want help to then want help, especially if they know there is not the risk of being incarcerated or locked up for simply having a plan, means, and intention to CTB and is able to talk about CTB freely (similar to that of an open dialogue), without persecution, judgment, and censorship.

I'm sure there are a lot of us here that can relate to what I wrote here.

Another excellent post. Looking at the "why" for suicide and then working with the client to make necessary changes–in their material circumstances and not just in their outlook–is what therapy should be.

 

[TAW122]

Couldn't have said it better. No one wants to address the root cause or truly "help" I'm not mentally ill, I don't suffer from major depressive disorder, I'm just hurting.

I'm no expert or claim to be, but I'm studying to become a cognitive behavioural therapist. I want to help others, and I believe that I possess the empathy and understanding to do that without the patronizing having been through and experiencing my own pain

I think you would be a good therapist based on what you described. I wonder though, would you be straightforward with your future clients about confidentiality, risk, and mandatory reporting? Such as mentioning that if you have reasonable belief that someone may be a danger to themselves or others, then by law you may have to report them. I ask because I would like to believe that pro-choice therapists and mental health professionals would be more considerate to which they would draw a line between helping, being pro-choice, and yet also keeping their job while going in accordance with the law.

Another excellent post. Looking at the "why" for suicide and then working with the client to make necessary changes–in their material circumstances and not just in their outlook–is what therapy should be.

Exactly and many therapists and mental health professionals don't do that. Those that claim they do, well those are so far and few that it is just not practical for the average man/woman to have access to them.

 

[Partial-Elf]

I think you would be a good therapist based on what you described. I wonder though, would you be straightforward with your future clients about confidentiality, risk, and mandatory reporting? Such as mentioning that if you have reasonable belief that someone may be a danger to themselves or others, then by law you may have to report them. I ask because I would like to believe that pro-choice therapists and mental health professionals would be more considerate to which they would draw a line between helping, being pro-choice, and yet also keeping their job while going in accordance with the law.


Exactly and many therapists and mental health professionals don't do that. Those that claim they do, well those are so far and few that it is just not practical for the average man/woman to have access to them.

I also think that many of people's unmet needs are caused by the exploitative economic and political systems we live in. If people knew they had access to basic food, shelter, and medical care no matter what (and without too many bureaucratic hoops to jump through) they'd have the freedom to move to new places, retrain into careers they found more rewarding, leave abusive home situations, etc. There are many who would still be suicidal in such a situation, but I do think the number would be notably smaller.

 

[TAW122]

I also think that many of people's unmet needs are caused by the exploitative economic and political systems we live in. If people knew they had access to basic food, shelter, and medical care no matter what (and without too many bureaucratic hoops to jump through) they'd have the freedom to move to new places, retrain into careers they found more rewarding, leave abusive home situations, etc. There are many who would still be suicidal in such a situation, but I do think the number would be notably smaller.

Agreed with you, this is absolutely the root problem of society. Sadly, the people at the top in society, making laws, managing policy, corporations, and more, they don't give a shit and some could even argue that they "allow" these problems to persist just so they (the elite and the people at the top) can live fulfilling and rewarding lives, oftenly at the cost of the masses.

 

[Partial-Elf]

@thrw_a_way1221221 I recently came across the term "social murder" from Engels which describes this phenomenon. I sincerely tried to link to the Wikipedia page and copy and paste the definition, but somehow failed at both. If you're unfamiliar with it I'd recommend searching it up because it's exactly what we're talking about

 

[Deathbydemo]

Very well written!

 

[TAW122]

I just had a new idea to add to this, another problem with society refusing and failing to address the root cause, real reasons, and factors for why suicidal people end up doing what they do, they always try to find something to use against the suicidal person such as threat assessments, mandated reporting (for mandated reporters - but nowadays just about everyone is like a mandated reporter since people tend to report on anything they see as harmful). If suicidal people are able to talk freely IRL (similarly to what we have here), without stigma, censorship, threat of civil or involuntary action, or mhp's acting like they are interrogators (as shown in this thread), then there will be more people willing to open up and be honest. Sadly, that is not likely going to happen as this world is too pro-life and believe that no matter how bad life is, life is always inherently a positive thing, a positive experience. The real answer is that it isn't; and it's full of suffering, injustice, and many more evils, ills.

The irony is that these people expect suicidal people to open up, to speak up (confess about their intentions and suicidality), reach out, and things; only to take the information from the suicidal person to use against him/her, including but not limited to harassment, violation of privacy, violation of bodily and personal autonomy, and one of the worst things, is to threaten or use involuntary force to lock a suicidal person up (all without regards to WHY the suicidal person is suicidal to begin with).

These pro-lifers backtrack to the same old reasons of mental illness, a cry for help, and more while ignoring the circumstances of the situation. As a result, suicidal people then learn not to trust people, learn not to open up, and worst case, they take others out with them before they go (note: I do not advocate for such actions, but merely mentioned it as a potential consequence of the poor and abusive treatment of suicidal people as if they are 'criminals'). The irony is that despite having done nothing illegal nor have broken the law, suicidal people are treated just similarly to criminals, or worse, all without a say or some sort of due process during their detainment. Another thread I wrote described in detail of what could happen to some suicidal people as a result of said treatment by the poor around him/her IRL.

I do believe that if society has the capacity and capability of making such a change, respecting the rights and wishes of people who don't wish to be around to play this game of 'life' and has a way out of this 'game', without being invalidated, punished, treated like a criminal, then he/she would be less suicidal and better as well as less angry and hateful towards the world.

 

[x51391225x]

Even though I take medication and my severe mental illness is regulated, it's totally the mental illness. My brain feels like a prison that no one else relates to and that I don't have any control over. I do terrible things and hurt people and get hurt and a lot of it is due to symptoms of the mental illness. Knowing I have to live like this forever and this is "regulated" is unbearable to me and I feel anyone who lived a day in my life, would agree. There's just no quality of life being born like this and knowing you're like this forever.

 

[Suez]

I just had a new idea to add to this, another problem with society refusing and failing to address the root cause, real reasons, and factors for why suicidal people end up doing what they do, they always try to find something to use against the suicidal person such as threat assessments, mandated reporting (for mandated reporters - but nowadays just about everyone is like a mandated reporter since people tend to report on anything they see as harmful). If suicidal people are able to talk freely IRL (similarly to what we have here), without stigma, censorship, threat of civil or involuntary action, or mhp's acting like they are interrogators (as shown in this thread), then there will be more people willing to open up and be honest. Sadly, that is not likely going to happen as this world is too pro-life and believe that no matter how bad life is, life is always inherently a positive thing, a positive experience. The real answer is that it isn't; and it's full of suffering, injustice, and many more evils, ills.

The irony is that these people expect suicidal people to open up, to speak up (confess about their intentions and suicidality), reach out, and things; only to take the information from the suicidal person to use against him/her, including but not limited to harassment, violation of privacy, violation of bodily and personal autonomy, and one of the worst things, is to threaten or use involuntary force to lock a suicidal person up (all without regards to WHY the suicidal person is suicidal to begin with).

These pro-lifers backtrack to the same old reasons of mental illness, a cry for help, and more while ignoring the circumstances of the situation. As a result, suicidal people then learn not to trust people, learn not to open up, and worst case, they take others out with them before they go (note: I do not advocate for such actions, but merely mentioned it as a potential consequence of the poor and abusive treatment of suicidal people as if they are 'criminals'). The irony is that despite having done nothing illegal nor have broken the law, suicidal people are treated just similarly to criminals, or worse, all without a say or some sort of due process during their detainment. Another thread I wrote described in detail of what could happen to some suicidal people as a result of said treatment by the poor around him/her IRL.

I do believe that if society has the capacity and capability of making such a change, respecting the rights and wishes of people who don't wish to be around to play this game of 'life' and has a way out of this 'game', without being invalidated, punished, treated like a criminal, then he/she would be less suicidal and better as well as less angry and hateful towards the world.

I was reading your post and it made me think about something that happened to me when i was 15yrs old. I had been put into an adult Psychiatric Hospital by the courts initially for assessment but i ended up there for almost a year. In that time because i wouldnt talk to them (which could perhaps have something to do with me being fucking scared), they used a "treatment" called Narcoanalysis or something like that, which is essentially being injected with Sodium Pentothal (Yes, truth serum), which is designed to make a person talk. So every week i would be taken up to this room where I would be strapped onto a bed and injected with this shit so that they could ask me questions and i could answer them and that was my therapy. My mum unfortunately was unable to stop this from happening because at that time I had been made a ward of the state so she had no rights over me. The hospital could do whatever they desired and they did. At some point during my time there i managed to get hold of a razor and cut my wrists, I actually somehow knew the right direction to do it, but unfortunately in such a confined environment I was bound to be caught and I was but I made one hell of a mess in their bathroom which pleased me no end. But what kind of society makes it ok to forceably subject a teenager to a drug treatment like that, because they wont talk. How could they not have seen how terrifying that would have been for a15yr old being bought into an adult Psychiatric Hospital. As Mental Health experts would that not have seemed obvious to them? If I didnt talk to them straight away, would they not have considered perhaps trying to talk to me first before sticking a needle in my arm and forceably making me talk to them? I wonder what they learnt if anything from my drugged answers? I know that my mum was never told anything about the outcome of these "therapeutic sessions" No wonder i cut my fucking wrists.