Discussion In your opinion, is it propaganda that it's not okay to hurt others but okay to hurt yourself?

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Imagine if all your problems come from other people for example, why shouldn't you be able to take it out on them, why would that be possible only in an apocalyptic scenario where there are no rules, shouldn't the people who get angry at their peers for the suffering caused to themselves be taken more seriously because they lashed out in spite of the fact that there are rules and laws in place?

In your opinion does that mean they did the right thing by taking others out with them because they would have gotten no help regardless so at least ruin someone else's life before dying yourself just to prove a point?

I'm not really alligned with these views , I said multiple times, we either all go or no one goes , so if I had a button to kill everybody I would, but that's not the case so I won't bother hurting anyone because it's pointless to me.

But I still want to know what others think about this thinking, is it valid? is it invalid? why is it valid, why it is invalid? in their place would you have done the same or not? why and why not?

And if you don't care to answer this , answer the question in the title. Yes I think it's propaganda it's not how we should be normally; no I don't think it's propaganda , it's just how we are.

 

[whywere]

I have seen through the decades since the 1960's folks who for whatever reasoning or thinking that everything in their lives where not only of someone else's doing but that they did nothing to help either.

I have always been of the mindset that, yes, there is outside influence, BUT "look in the mirror" and see the problem, issues, be it good or bad.

I 1005 believe in karma, as I have through the decades seen it so VERY many times happen. Personally, I will give one example, back in 1983, the small town that I grew up in, I got a summer job there, so I moved there for the summer. One Saturday night 2 other guys that I got to know thought it was a great idea to go to the next town over, about 35 miles away for the evening and have a few beers and check out the ladies. When we stopped in a bar around 1:10am, I went to the bathroom in the back of the bar and told the other 2 lad that I would have the same beer that they were going to order.

When I got back to the front of the bar from the restroom, both of the guys were gone. I got a gut punch in my stomach and thought, I bet that they took off and dumped me in this town and that is why they mentioned coming to this town earlier this evening. I ran across the street, and YES, I was correct, they drove off and left me there. No cell phone in that day so I had 35 miles to walk back to my car.

I was about 1 mile out of town and a local cop pulled up behind me, I was walking on the gravel shoulder and asked me what I was doing out there. I told him and he was shocked that someone would do that "for laughs".

He drove me to the county line and radioed a cop from the town where I was living for the summer, and he gave me a ride to my car.

The one driving was busted for drunk driving a few weeks later and lost his driver's license for a long time and the other person was killed when he was going over 130MPH and lost control and crashed and died.

I have had since the 1960's other situations like this, and it ALWAYS comes full circle, ALWAYS.

We are OWN masters of our fate, HOWEVER, one aspect that I learned is to ALWAYS treat EVRYONE with respect, love helping others and if I get zinged because I am GULLIABLE, well in the end of things it always comes full circle, and the scales of life always balance

I make a tremendous number of mistakes, BUT I always take full responsibility and make amends and if someone wants to laugh at me, hurt me, whatever, it WILL balance, always does.

So hurt myself because of others, NEVER. I would never hurt anyone on purpose; it is NOT in my DNA.

Walter

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

I have seen through the decades since the 1960's folks who for whatever reasoning or thinking that everything in their lives where not only of someone else's doing but that they did nothing to help either.

I have always been of the mindset that, yes, there is outside influence, BUT "look in the mirror" and see the problem, issues, be it good or bad.

I 1005 believe in karma, as I have through the decades seen it so VERY many times happen. Personally, I will give one example, back in 1983, the small town that I grew up in, I got a summer job there, so I moved there for the summer. One Saturday night 2 other guys that I got to know thought it was a great idea to go to the next town over, about 35 miles away for the evening and have a few beers and check out the ladies. When we stopped in a bar around 1:10am, I went to the bathroom in the back of the bar and told the other 2 lad that I would have the same beer that they were going to order.

When I got back to the front of the bar from the restroom, both of the guys were gone. I got a gut punch in my stomach and thought, I bet that they took off and dumped me in this town and that is why they mentioned coming to this town earlier this evening. I ran across the street, and YES, I was correct, they drove off and left me there. No cell phone in that day so I had 35 miles to walk back to my car.

I was about 1 mile out of town and a local cop pulled up behind me, I was walking on the gravel shoulder and asked me what I was doing out there. I told him and he was shocked that someone would do that "for laughs".

He drove me to the county line and radioed a cop from the town where I was living for the summer, and he gave me a ride to my car.

The one driving was busted for drunk driving a few weeks later and lost his driver's license for a long time and the other person was killed when he was going over 130MPH and lost control and crashed and died.

I have had since the 1960's other situations like this, and it ALWAYS comes full circle, ALWAYS.

We are OWN masters of our fate, HOWEVER, one aspect that I learned is to ALWAYS treat EVRYONE with respect, love helping others and if I get zinged because I am GULLIABLE, well in the end of things it always comes full circle, and the scales of life always balance

I make a tremendous number of mistakes, BUT I always take full responsibility and make amends and if someone wants to laugh at me, hurt me, whatever, it WILL balance, always does.

So hurt myself because of others, NEVER. I would never hurt anyone on purpose; it is NOT in my DNA.

Walter

Well I agree, in your situation I wouldn't say it was really karma, you were "apprehended" and left in another town by two dumb idiots who were too "zesty" for their own good and since that's how they were and they thought themselves to be invincible, they ended up paying for it because of their own volition and way of living.

The text I first described honestly comes from a place of bias because I , many times forget that when you meet someone who is worth hurting (talking about average people; NOT an Epstein like evil or some evil CEO who I'd pounce on like a panther if I ever saw them); most of the time they'll end up doing the job for you because people who hurt will eventually get hurt themselves. What I dealt in my childhood was systematic abusers who are smarter and better and because of my own bias I couldn't see that most people, even on here, will obviously say "No, of course I wouldn't hurt others", of course they wouldn't they don't have internalized anger

When I wanted to talk about hurting others , I even said that it's either all of us or none of us because 99.999999999% of people did me no wrong (the all of us part comes from the fact that, even if I can't choose for others , I still think it would be better if there was no life at all and we all peacefully vanished one day), but the anger from the remaining 0.00000000000000000......1% of people still remains and it can, if left unchecked, manifest and seep into the lives of the ones who are undeserving of it, of course I personally noticed that happening years ago out of dumb luck honestly, I am surprised myself I didn't end up being a murderer; so now I'm fine and can control it to not hurt anyone around me, I can't make it go away.

But about 8-9 years ago I was really obsesed as a kid with revenge, with child killers who killed their abusers and took revenge, now after all this time, I saw news about a knife murder in germany and saw that the perpetrator was mentally ill and thought about it, I kind of projected maybe? used my own biases but I just wanted to see how others who were hurt and are hurting process their anger and if they find it justified to take it out on the ones that you hate and maybe even extend it beyond that or if they don't find it justified in any way shape or form;

And honestly, I don't find myself superior for getting to this conclusion or choosing not to act in anger, if you drop two of the exact same glass bottles, one can bounce and the other can break, that doesn't mean a bottle is superior to the other, it's just how you reacted to the world. Also, as a side note, the propaganda part is a true question, as in , I do believe that powerful people are "afraid" as they wouldn't build armies, guns, policeman otherwise. so they of course would want to keep us obedient and to pose no threat to them if push came to shove and we wanted to take out let's say an evil CEO or a rogue president that has many oligarchs at his side.

That's out of the question, as in, in my opinion it's just gaslighting made by powerful people so the person takes their lives in the end, instead of also taking the life of one evil bastard with them (as Luigi did, again I don't think of him as some sort of messiah but I do believe that for someone who killed another person, he did a fine job and while emotions were at play it was a justified outburst with no extra damage to anyone else, in fact it might have helped people, so I respect the way he went about it and honestly think he made a big breakthrough showing us that these people are not invincible and we can take them out if they make us normal folk suffer)

 

[kotonearisato]

Interesting topic.

shouldn't the people who get angry at their peers for the suffering caused to themselves be taken more seriously because they lashed out in spite of the fact that there are rules and laws in place?

Yes and also no. I don't think lashing out, in itself, is necessarily bad. Getting angry at others is a normal response to mistreatment. Hurting someone emotionally because they hurt you makes sense in some situations. Physically hurting another person is a completely different story, and I don't condone it in most situations. But people are only human - we've got to account for that. If, say, a victim of domestic violence kills their abuser and then themselves, I wouldn't have it in me to be angry about their abuse's death in the slightest. So, it depends on the actual situation. Take someone who is convinced that their problems are being caused by women not dating them, so they kill some women and then themselves... a thing that unfortunately has happened. Nobody has a right to being in a romantic relationship, and nobody has a right to force themselves on someone. In that situation nobody actually "hurt" this person, but they took it as such and acted on that unjustified emotional pain. Even in a lawless land I would still think very ill of that kind of person.

That being said, I don't agree with your title. I mean, even take this site, why it's being attacked so often in the media - people don't believe hurting yourself is okay. If they did, we wouldn't be here probably lmao. I also disagree that it's seen as not okay to hurt others. I hear what you're saying I think, where its seen as wrong to fight back essentially, yeah? But the question is too black and white and contradicts itself, as it implies the initial hurt is also seen as not okay, which is kind of the crux of this issue - too many people think it's okay to cause harm initially and then get angry when their victims fight back. The world would be a much better place if people didn't think that initial hurt was acceptable in the first place.

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Interesting topic.

Yes and also no. I don't think lashing out, in itself, is necessarily bad. Getting angry at others is a normal response to mistreatment. Hurting someone emotionally because they hurt you makes sense in some situations. Physically hurting another person is a completely different story, and I don't condone it in most situations. But people are only human - we've got to account for that. If, say, a victim of domestic violence kills their abuser and then themselves, I wouldn't have it in me to be angry about their abuse's death in the slightest. So, it depends on the actual situation. Take someone who is convinced that their problems are being caused by women not dating them, so they kill some women and then themselves... a thing that unfortunately has happened. Nobody has a right to being in a romantic relationship, and nobody has a right to force themselves on someone. In that situation nobody actually "hurt" this person, but they took it as such and acted on that unjustified emotional pain. Even in a lawless land I would still think very ill of that kind of person.

That being said, I don't agree with your title. I mean, even take this site, why it's being attacked so often in the media - people don't believe hurting yourself is okay. If they did, we wouldn't be here probably lmao. I also disagree that it's seen as not okay to hurt others. I hear what you're saying I think, where its seen as wrong to fight back essentially, yeah? But the question is too black and white and contradicts itself, as it implies the initial hurt is also seen as not okay, which is kind of the crux of this issue - too many people think it's okay to cause harm initially and then get angry when their victims fight back. The world would be a much better place if people didn't think that initial hurt was acceptable in the first place.

I agree , I worded it very poorly. You are right, in every case but self defense (which includes abuse to an extent in my opinion) , I think it's not justified, like you said, your own delusions don't automatically mean you are allowed to hurt people; but I still think the title is accurate in a way, it's not propaganda , that's a word I used badly, but it's somewhat internalized to not be able to lash out or express your anger, and honestly, as radical or out of the ordinary as this is, I wish I told my abusers that I could take them out while they sleep as a kid, it doesn't matter if I wouldn't go through with it , and it doesn't matter if they can't hurt me anymore, I needed them to know that they were not in control and now after all this time I think that no matter what I do, it will bring me no satisfaction because the moment where I needed it the most to be in control , I wasn't. And there was no one to teach me that I could take control or fight back, because the abusers were my family.

So I agree with you, we should strive for a place where people don't abuse or hurt in the first place. And about the people don't believe hurting yourself is okay, I agree, most people don't believe that, but those people are the least vocal and I feel no support nor peace because they could be as real as Santa for all I care, if I don't get any feedback from them, any message, anything really, how should I know that they care. But this might be because of my country of origin, we almost voted a russian alligned president so don't be surprised when I tell you that most people here don't give a shit about mental illness and that they are very religious and discriminatory against us.

 

[kotonearisato]

honestly, as radical or out of the ordinary as this is, I wish I told my abusers that I could take them out while they sleep as a kid, it doesn't matter if I wouldn't go through with it , and it doesn't matter if they can't hurt me anymore, I needed them to know that they were not in control and now after all this time I think that no matter what I do, it will bring me no satisfaction because the moment where I needed it the most to be in control , I wasn't. And there was no one to teach me that I could take control or fight back, because the abusers were my family.

Firstly - I am so sorry for what you went through, you absolutely did not deserve for them to hurt you. I, unfortunately, was in a similar boat as a child with an abusive parent, so I empathize strongly, and honestly agree with you in this. People being abused deserve to protect themselves, and sometimes protection looks like fighting back. That's an important distinction in my opinion, between lashing out in anger and taking anger out on someone uninvolved. I also understand what you mean - about it not bringing any satisfaction. The damage was already done, now it would just be responding to reverberations.

so don't be surprised when I tell you that most people here don't give a shit about mental illness and that they are very religious and discriminatory against us.

It's awful that this is so commonplace. I'm in a very "liberal" area, and even here the majority of "support" for mental illness is only skin deep. I long for the day where people stop turning a blind eye to things that don't affect them, and for the day when people stop hating others for being different than them.