Discussion Impact on others

[Shewaitsforme]

Youre the one who called me uneducated. I never insulted you, coming across as a hypocrite.

You imploed that unless i have one of your 3 issues oh wise one than i must be lying or not serious! That my dear is insulting in itself

 

[Limbo]

You imploed that unless i have one of your 3 issues oh wise one than i must be lying or not serious! That my dear is insulting in itself

I said lying to yourself. There is a huge difference. Read properly first then get upset. That is also my general opinion, it wasnt targeted directly at you.

 

[Morbidreality]

I said lying to yourself. There is a huge difference. Read properly first then get upset.

Can't you just shut up already?

 

[Gainax]

im against any method that causes trauma to other innocent people, methods like train, jump from building, gunshot, because making other people see your dismembered/crushed body is too cruel

 

[406blue]

People don't call suicides selfish because of the methods chosen... otherwise they wouldn't discourage and disparage all of it. A suicide that affects almost nobody is still considered selfish for many reasons, plenty of which aren't valid. People who are suicidal are selfish insofar as they can't tolerate pain for the sake of others further and take what they judge to be the best actions for themselves - usually after many attempts to bear suffering for others, and often while having to live with the idea that they are a burden regardless of whether they're alive or dead. I wish people would reconsider before coming on here and regurgitating those kinds of truisms.

I agree people should seek to minimise their impact on others, but as long as suicide must remain a furtive and difficult act, there are always going to be people who struggle to find a way to do this. And I think loss will always be an emotional response to love; suicide, like any death, will be painful, and right now it is especially so because of what it represents. But I strongly believe that some (not all) of the unique trauma of suicide is induced by the fact that the suicidal must become fugitives to succeed, and what that means for their behaviour, their feelings, their methods, and the circumstances of their death, as well as people's understanding of them and ability to come to terms with it.

I see very few people on here who actively want to cause pain with these methods; there are so many threads on here where it's obvious people are living purely for others or torn up about the impact they will have that it seems preposterous to me to call the suicidal more selfish than anyone else. The harm caused by a suicide is not all harm caused by the individual; it is also harm that was done to the individual to start with. It may be instinctive to recoil from death, but it is also instinctive to make suffering stop.

There is special contempt for people who do it by train due to train driver PTSD - train drivers, at least in my country, are serious agitators for mental health reform, because their suffering is induced by others' suffering. (Of course, it's not just the mentally ill who suicide!) Society has failed train drivers; it denies them rights as workers and alienates them in the same way, it denies them the same treatment other people with PTSD also need (and may even be possible already!), and it fails the mentally ill at every level, then leaves them as the first response to the worst parts of it. Some problems- some intolerable illnesses, some pain, some philosophical issues - are not remediable and not preventable, but those people have no recourse; many situations could be remedied or prevented but are instead exacerbated by people's circumstances.

I feel really, truly bad for train workers - I've read quite a lot about their experiences with suicide - and I think most people do, but I also feel really bad for the people who choose such a method because they feel there is no better way. In the case of an impulsive suicide carried out in blind agony, I feel even worse for them for various reasons. I don't know of anyone who isn't aware that they involve others when they die this way. And finally, if people don't have access to another method that's as reliable as train decapitation or aren't capable of it (whether for psychological reasons or due to their life circumstances), then that's sad too.

I strongly encourage people who are considering this method to do deep reflection within themselves why they can't do something different - if they have particular hangups, maybe those could be overcome. An important part of end of life planning is reflecting on and acknowledging what will likely happen as a result of your actions, and coming to terms with it - including who will be affected and whether one can change that or not. (It's not just the train that can traumatise random people) But also, it's not evil to need a way out of a trap.

I have the impression that people in this forum are in the majority sensitive people, which is why they are stuck, in a world that is less than sensitive. And so why wouldn't they feel especially closely for this kind of issue about the impact of their actions on others. I think if we are intent on ending our lives as decently as possible, we have to try to minimise the impact on others.

 

[Limbo]

Can't you just shut up already?

no one is talking to you. Mind your own business.

 

[Morbidreality]

no one is talking to you. Mind your own business.

Lololololol. Troll mode on

 

[Susannah]

People don't call suicides selfish because of the methods chosen... otherwise they wouldn't discourage and disparage all of it. A suicide that affects almost nobody is still considered selfish for many reasons, plenty of which aren't valid. People who are suicidal are selfish insofar as they can't tolerate pain for the sake of others further and take what they judge to be the best actions for themselves - usually after many attempts to bear suffering for others, and often while having to live with the idea that they are a burden regardless of whether they're alive or dead. I wish people would reconsider before coming on here and regurgitating those kinds of truisms.

I agree people should seek to minimise their impact on others, but as long as suicide must remain a furtive and difficult act, there are always going to be people who struggle to find a way to do this. And I think loss will always be an emotional response to love; suicide, like any death, will be painful, and right now it is especially so because of what it represents. But I strongly believe that some (not all) of the unique trauma of suicide is induced by the fact that the suicidal must become fugitives to succeed, and what that means for their behaviour, their feelings, their methods, and the circumstances of their death, as well as people's understanding of them and ability to come to terms with it.

I see very few people on here who actively want to cause pain with these methods; there are so many threads on here where it's obvious people are living purely for others or torn up about the impact they will have that it seems preposterous to me to call the suicidal more selfish than anyone else. The harm caused by a suicide is not all harm caused by the individual; it is also harm that was done to the individual to start with. It may be instinctive to recoil from death, but it is also instinctive to make suffering stop.

There is special contempt for people who do it by train due to train driver PTSD - train drivers, at least in my country, are serious agitators for mental health reform, because their suffering is induced by others' suffering. (Of course, it's not just the mentally ill who suicide!) Society has failed train drivers; it denies them rights as workers and alienates them in the same way, it denies them the same treatment other people with PTSD also need (and may even be possible already!), and it fails the mentally ill at every level, then leaves them as the first response to the worst parts of it. Some problems- some intolerable illnesses, some pain, some philosophical issues - are not remediable and not preventable, but those people have no recourse; many situations could be remedied or prevented but are instead exacerbated by people's circumstances.

I feel really, truly bad for train workers - I've read quite a lot about their experiences with suicide - and I think most people do, but I also feel really bad for the people who choose such a method because they feel there is no better way. In the case of an impulsive suicide carried out in blind agony, I feel even worse for them for various reasons. I don't know of anyone who isn't aware that they involve others when they die this way. And finally, if people don't have access to another method that's as reliable as train decapitation or aren't capable of it (whether for psychological reasons or due to their life circumstances), then that's sad too.

I strongly encourage people who are considering this method to do deep reflection within themselves why they can't do something different - if they have particular hangups, maybe those could be overcome. An important part of end of life planning is reflecting on and acknowledging what will likely happen as a result of your actions, and coming to terms with it - including who will be affected and whether one can change that or not. (It's not just the train that can traumatise random people) But also, it's not evil to need a way out of a trap.

Very well written and thoughtful reflections.

 

[hunter_lewis]

I understand people want to use various methods but what i dont get is why wouldnt you want to minimise the impact your suicide wpuld have on others. For instance, the train method. What about the person driving that train, what is gonna happen to them, will they have the nerve to go back to work and if they dont then that will have an impact on maybe family they have. I know all suicide will have some impact on someone but really, jumping off a bridge over a motorway, running into traffic no wonder people call suicides selfish.

P.S sorry for the long post im alittle wired in my head today

I think jumping in front of a train is very selfish and a bad method to die. In my country, people jump in front of trains all the time-it traumatizes the train driver, passengers have to wait for hours until blood and flesh is scraped from the tracks. It poses an inconvenience to all.

 

[Rex]

Lololololol. Troll mode on

Oh pity, I caught you before you could harass more and start trolling. You were on thin ice anyway, the comments in this thread have got you a well deserved ban with a public warning to others regarding insults.

 

[406blue]

It's good to see that mods are on the ball in here and keeping some control over input.

 

[sumbumedguy]

im against any method that causes trauma to other innocent people, methods like train, jump from building, gunshot, because making other people see your dismembered/crushed body is too cruel

what about like antagonizing a Hitman? I agree with you for the most part when someone has the capacity to feel responsible.no trains cars airplanes but like that stops with if there was a security guard who opens the roof for me with out realizing my int ion like I wouldnt Wan get murdered by pissing someone off Cuz I'm kinda insecure and like to be liked couldn't hire one either Cuz dontlike talking 2 ppl bout my problems

 

[sumbumedguy]

suicide is selfish But most people have given enough back to there community for it to be justified whether you donated a couple of cans every couple months or did community service hours. Evan if you waved to someone when you saw them you helped make thier day a bit better and you ve earned your peace and if you don't think that's enough. there is nothing wrong with being selfish on things that affect you in a major way l. a monogoms relationship is selfish, so is eating food, Evan if you are starving (literary) and there is nothing wrong with that we are allowed certain selfish things suicide is one of them