Imagine an instant, painless suicide was available to everyone...

[Darkover]

Wouldn't that put a lot of pressure on our quite dystopi, capitalistic system to make itself worth living for everyone?

People like to choose the path of least resistance, or the path of least suffering. If you remove the barrier to a painless suicide, it would not mean that everyone would instantly choose that option because, you know, "life is suffering". People are still attached to loved ones, pleasures, dreams and goals, or alive for religious reasons etc. And it doesn't change the scariness of death for many, because making dying painless doesn't solve the question if there is more suffering to come on the other side or if blissful nothingness awaits you.

Still, it would probably cause a chain reaction of suicides affecting many families, but it would quickly balance itself out, leaving alive the people that may suffer, but not unbearably, and there are enough people that love and affirm life. Depending on how dystopi our world is, the greater or lesser the percentage of people that leave this world.

 

[dolemitedrums]

It would sure be nice but I guess there's no point at least for me in daydreaming about Nembutal fantasyland.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I don't think that a majority would press the button (or drink N, if it was provided instead). That is simply the case bc for the vast majority people life is ok for them - average. SI is the best protection.

 

[SNastablesalt]

Wouldn't that put a lot of pressure on our quite dystopi, capitalistic system to make itself worth living for everyone?

People like to choose the path of least resistance, or the path of least suffering. If you remove the barrier to a painless suicide, it would not mean that everyone would instantly choose that option because, you know, "life is suffering". People are still attached to loved ones, pleasures, dreams and goals, or alive for religious reasons etc. And it doesn't change the scariness of death for many, because making dying painless doesn't solve the question if there is more suffering to come on the other side or if blissful nothingness awaits you.

Still, it would probably cause a chain reaction of suicides affecting many families, but it would quickly balance itself out, leaving alive the people that may suffer, but not unbearably, and there are enough people that love and affirm life. Depending on how dystopi our world is, the greater or lesser the percentage of people that leave this world.

this site wouldn't have to exist aha…

 

[UKscotty]

There isn't really an instant painless suicide method out there.

Pentobarbital (N) is way over hyped by the profiteersat the PPH, it is slow and liable to throwing up and failure.

To be instant and painless.. it would need to be something IV like fentanyl or morphine, administered by a professional, unless you have IV drug use experience. Without being IV it will be liable to failing no matter what it is.

 

[Darkover]

There isn't really an instant painless suicide method out there.

i said imagine there was

 

[Justnotme]

I would have run towards a peaceful death the minute it became available, because I would have been afraid that access to a peaceful death might suddenly be canceled. And I would have missed my chance.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Freud was right on the concept of tension and relief, suffering is needed to force people to seek relief, but why do most people choose this cycle rather than nonexistence even if we provide them with a painless method of suicide. Visually, people prefer the pleasure of relief and tolerate suffering. But I personally believe that what really makes death or suicide, even a painless one, undesirable is embedded in our unconscious mind and the architecture of the cosmos. death is an instant event where metabolic activity ceases, resulting in a drop in the rate of entropy generation, which I believe is contradictory to the increasing rate of entropy in the universe

So, in other words, entropy isn't merely a "condition", or an "end", but it's in control of everything, having sway in everything that occurs?¿

 

[divinemistress36]

I imagine 20% of the population would use it

 

[kinderbueno]

I think there'd be quite a few people using it impulsively without thinking about if they actually wanna die or not beforehand

 

[kyhoti]

It would be regulated to uselessness. But following the fantasy thinking route, I'd like to also imagine a mental health and public aid system that wasn't total shite.

If it was a magic button, I'd push it like Groot.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Ofc

Hmmmm.......so entropy is really "god-like" then, or even actually GOD, for those who believe in that kind of thing?

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Based on the second law of thermodynamics, entropy has to increase or be constant, the more complex a system becomes, the more entropy it generates. In this sense, entropy is like a god because it pushes us to resist it by creating order "complex system" and devolving and, at the same time, creating more entropy.

Yeah, I know what entropy is. I've just never heard it likened to having "god-like" qualities.

 

[DarkRange55]

Based on the second law of thermodynamics, entropy has to increase or be constant, the more complex a system becomes, the more entropy it generates. In this sense, entropy is like a god because it pushes us to resist it by creating order "complex system" and devolving and, at the same time, creating more entropy.

Order, entropy and disorder aren't what people claim in common parlance: high entropy doesn't mean low order in the way that most people think. If you look at a coffee cup with some milk and you create some turbulence that looks completely disordered and then when you stir it, then it looks uniform, it looks ordered but that actually has the highest entropy.

 

[Cress]

Wouldn't that put a lot of pressure on our quite dystopi, capitalistic system to make itself worth living for everyone?

People like to choose the path of least resistance, or the path of least suffering. If you remove the barrier to a painless suicide, it would not mean that everyone would instantly choose that option because, you know, "life is suffering". People are still attached to loved ones, pleasures, dreams and goals, or alive for religious reasons etc. And it doesn't change the scariness of death for many, because making dying painless doesn't solve the question if there is more suffering to come on the other side or if blissful nothingness awaits you.

Still, it would probably cause a chain reaction of suicides affecting many families, but it would quickly balance itself out, leaving alive the people that may suffer, but not unbearably, and there are enough people that love and affirm life. Depending on how dystopi our world is, the greater or lesser the percentage of people that leave this world.

Yeah it would eventually balance itself out. It would very likely take Probably 100,000 years but eventually it would balance out. Evolution would also start to take effect Traits in the brain that result in depression would be greatly reduced through evolutionary pressure. As the people with suicidal tendencies would be passing on their genes less and less.

That's of course assuming that society does absolutely nothing at all to alleviate everyone's suffering to the degree that they never think about taking themselves out. I think with the advent of AI and potentially self sustaining manual labor robots in the future A world where it's feasible to keep everyone suffering down enough where they wouldn't off themselves could be possible. At present our current level of technology doesn't seem like it would be enough. We simply relied too much on resources that are finite.

This is also going pretty deep into the topic But we are an incredibly productive society. At least from the perspective of Capitalistic shareholders And keeping our first world country GDP up. The main reason Economists consider creating debt and printing money is good is because it always puts the pressure on people to continue working. Most economists agree that inflation is good and the fundamental reason why Is so that you can't pass down generational wealth.

Unfortunately this inflation pressure is so intense that almost no first world country maintains a positive birth rate and we basically don't have anytime to raise children. Society is literally an overdrive mode. So if you have this perspective and you don't have time to raise children because it'll cost shareholder profits then you almost certainly won't bother putting in time to make sure everyone is mentally stable.

So the two outcomes would be our technology improves enough to sustain everyone's mental well being or evolution takes the wheel and forces those traits out of the gene pool for people.

 

[DarkRange55]

No, high entropy means low order but is not necessary to the object itself but also to the environment. When stirring instead of just causing turbulence, it generates more entropy to the environment through energy dissipated and, at the same time, increases the complexity and order of the mixture, making it have less entropy.

I'll respond to this tomorrow when I'm less drowsy

 

[AmberianDawn]

Without a doubt, I would get into Nitschke's sarco with a big smile

 

[DarkRange55]

No, high entropy means low order but is not necessary to the object itself but also to the environment. When stirring instead of just causing turbulence, it generates more entropy to the environment through energy dissipated and, at the same time, increases the complexity and order of the mixture, making it have less entropy.

No.
In thermodynamics, entropy is a measure of the number of possible microscopic configurations (microstates) that correspond to a system's macroscopic state. The macroscopic state of a system is defined by its observable properties, such as temperature, pressure, and volume. Many different microstates can correspond to the same macroscopic state.
Entropy S is a measure of the number of possible microstates \Omega that correspond to a given macroscopic state. The relationship is given by Boltzmann's formula: S=kBlnΩ

Boltzmann's entropy formula - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A higher entropy means that there are more possible microstates for a given macroscopic state. For example, when coffee and milk are thoroughly stirred and mixed, there are many more ways to arrange the individual molecules while still maintaining the appearance of a uniform mixture. This results in higher entropy compared to the initial, separated state (which is what I said).

An ordered system has low entropy, while a disordered system has high entropy. High entropy doesn't imply low order; rather, it reflects the overall randomness or disorder in a system. Stirring a coffee cup, may make it appear ordered, but it actually increases entropy due to increased to mixing and randomness. (Again, which is what I said).

Concentrations dissipate, but the total is constant (AFAWK).
The most dissipated is averaging the same amount per degree of freedom, with the amount per degree of freedom being proportional to temperature.
Individual molecules each have several degrees of freedom, and are so numerous that they dominate dissipated energy*, and we call their energy "heat". * at low enough energy and low enough density the microwave background becomes significant.

In the grand block-omniverse, time is an illusion (and entropy is a statistical measure of state density). Time is an illusion caused by the limitations of our consciousness, which can only experience one slice of one thread of the multiverse (that we call the present and call reality).
Time, and entropy, are driven by our consciousness's effort to make sense of that slice, and it is a lot simpler to treat time as if it does exist and that there is only one reality that flows from slice to slice.

https://isaacphysics.org/concepts/cc_entropy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clausius_theorem

https://sciencenotes.org/what-is-entropy-definition-and-examples/#google_vignette

Ideal gas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No, high entropy means low order but is not necessary to the object itself but also to the environment. When stirring instead of just causing turbulence, it generates more entropy to the environment through energy dissipated and, at the same time, increases the complexity and order of the mixture, making it have less entropy.

Entropy can be calculated using different formulas depending on the context.

1. Statistical Mechanics (Boltzmann's Entropy Formula)

2. Thermodynamics (Clausius' Entropy Formula)

3. Entropy Change for Ideal Gases

4. Entropy Change for Phase Transitions

I have attached the formulas bow but I can explain them in detail if you'd like.

Apologies for my sloppy handwriting

 

[DarkRange55]

But what is the relationship between entropy of certain system and environment?

View attachment 145980

1. Negative Entropy (Negentropy):

- Entropy is a measure of disorder or randomness in a system. High entropy means high disorder, and low entropy means low disorder.
- Negative entropy, or negentropy, refers to order or the reduction of entropy. Essentially, it means the opposite of disorder.

2. Organisms Feed on Negentropy:

- Schrödinger suggests that living organisms sustain themselves by consuming or extracting negentropy from their surroundings. This is a way of saying that organisms take in order from their environment to maintain their own order.

3. Maintaining Orderliness:

- Living organisms are highly ordered structures, which contrasts with the natural tendency of the universe towards increasing entropy (disorder).
- To sustain their low-entropy state (high level of orderliness), organisms must continually import energy and matter from their environment.

4. Sucking Orderliness from its Environment":

- This phrase metaphorically describes how organisms interact with their environment. By absorbing nutrients, energy, and other resources, they are effectively taking in low-entropy materials.
- For example, plants absorb sunlight (a source of low entropy) through photosynthesis, and animals consume plants or other animals to gain energy and materials that help maintain their biological order.

We can fight entropy, but nobody's won yet!
And all life fights entropy the same way we do (locally, with an energy input).

So what context are you using the word "entropy" to mean?
Thermodynamics states that, the entropy of an isolated system undergoing spontaneous evolution cannot decrease over time. Consequently, isolated systems progress towards thermodynamic equilibrium, where the entropy reaches its maximum.

On a quantum level, everything appears to be reversible.

In thermodynamics, entropy quantifies the number of possible microscopic configurations that correspond to a system's macroscopic state. Higher entropy means greater disorder and less energy available to do work.

What is Entropy? | ChemTalk

In this article, we discover the meaning and equations of entropy and its importance, in both the universe and within a system.

chemistrytalk.org

The term has found far reaching use

 

[Zebulon]

I dream of such a method. The last act, even how small, is so so hard. I wanna CTB, but the depression and anxiety make it so hard to do the last step