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Andro • Ανδρομέδα

Andro • Ανδρομέδα

Member
Nov 12, 2022
54
I got to say, society, people outside the forum, have done their worst and led us places of complete isolation when it comes to suicide. However, there's some reform needed around here with moderation. This should be a place of discussion about death, not a cult to it. I am making threse remarks to see if I actually belong here, it's too often I see sided, quite hostile responses to criticism to the forum, and I guess that's an instinct of a group so maginalized as suicidals; but while we must make sure to keep the conversation going, there's a lot to work on, and i'm not sure if there's someone I can hold accountable when we go in the wrong directions.
I hope y'all still value, not life itself idc about that, but the life of the individuals around here. No philosophy should make you want somebody dead, I hope this is stilll about suffering, and there are ways we should discuss suffering less without making the assumption the only way for everybody is to ctb. There's very little effort, as a community, in trying to help people while alive.
 
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Q

Quandary

Member
Jan 24, 2023
5
Personally I haven't encountered many scenarios where people diminished the lives of others - or worse, encouraged others to CTB before they considered it to be an option, although I certainly agree with your point. This forum should be a safe place for people to discuss death, and respect the choices people make. The hostile response from the community to criticism against the forum is, like you mentioned, understandable to an extent. But despite that we should refrain from completely isolating ourselves from other perspectives. I've seen quite a few people almost deem people who don't share the exact same norms as the forum malevolent. In the end, most people who do deliver criticism against the forum are just as human, and rarely have ill intentions. They almost always have the best interest of people in mind, something which people in this community tend to forget.
 
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jodes2

jodes2

Hello people ❤️
Aug 28, 2022
7,736
Hostile responses to what kind of criticisms to the forum?

Compared to Reddit, this place is incredible. I'm planning on starting my own small social media come discussion site pretty soon, and I only wish I knew how to foster the kind of behaviour here there, instead of the bitterness, hostility, aggression and awful echo chambers of Reddit. I'd love to know SSu's secret. Yes, sure, it's a pro-choice echo chamber. But as echo chambers go, it's got a pretty good balance of views, and remarkably little hostility. Even in the most emotionally charged debates, people here usually find ways of expressing themselves without the need for downvotes/angry faces, reporting, name calling, belittling, witch hunting, you name it. People try to stay on topic, understand context, keep rational, and measure their responses proportionately, trying to stick to facts.

I do agree though, that "pro-life sentiments" or attitudes or anything geared towards keeping someone alive can be met with hostility, and that's an incredibly irresponsible reaction. But people, I guess, are possessive over this sanctuary, being perhaps the only one of its kind, where they can potentially seek almost encouraging sentiments to die, although meant from a good place, the overall drift is somewhat irresponsible without an equal, balanced opposing force. Otherwise it becomes pro-death, doesn't it? We're pro-choice. That should mean encouraging life, but accepting a firm choice of death if that's how someone feels. If we encouraged death, which we don't, we'd be exactly what the pro-lifers label us as. Pro-death. But also, if we negect to encourage life, that has a net drift of being pro-death too, given how suicidal people think. We want to be pro-choice, we say we're Pro choice, so let's be pro-choice by making sure we give encouraging prompts to live, as well as accepting when someone firmly wants to die and has explored recovery.
 
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W

whywere

Illuminated
Jun 26, 2020
3,397
Oh boy, here it goes! The 1 thing that I ask of everybody is too be nice, thoughtful and considerate, with those aspects said here it is.

As far as for me, SS is a place for folks to come and figure things out. Too many times in the past, it is all about what method, goodbye and the like, without stopping to think.

I am pro-choice, no matter what anybody says or thinks. I am pro-choice about life, abortion, absolutely everything. It is NOIT up to me to influence anyone on anything ever and I never will.

I LOVE to help folks sort things out and make sure that they are thinking as rationally as possible, then go for it, whatever that may be.

This site has gathered some. in my viewpoint, not a lot but some attention because sometimes someone uploads a post about that they are going to ctb. I try, and am NOT anything but a normal average soul, to read between the lines and see if they are hurting and looking for a hug or validation that they are important in life.

Some comments are grossly one-sided as to what method and the like. It always interests me to see folks who always are go for it no matter what and they are still here, and have been of a longer period of time, hummm????

Like I said before being constructive in one's criticism of me but not personal as that does not advance this site at all.

For once since I have been on here, I have to finally get this off my chest as it has bugged me for so long.

Ctb us fine but makes sure one has their ducks in a row and it is one and done. where sometimes folks maybe just need a hug and take a step back and think then if after that ctb is on the deck so be it.

Walter
 
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Andro • Ανδρομέδα

Andro • Ανδρομέδα

Member
Nov 12, 2022
54
Personally I haven't encountered many scenarios where people diminished the lives of others - or worse, encouraged others to CTB before they considered it to be an option, although I certainly agree with your point. This forum should be a safe place for people to discuss death, and respect the choices people make. The hostile response from the community to criticism against the forum is, like you mentioned, understandable to an extent. But despite that we should refrain from completely isolating ourselves from other perspectives. I've seen quite a few people almost deem people who don't share the exact same norms as the forum malevolent. In the end, most people who do deliver criticism against the forum are just as human, and rarely have ill intentions. They almost always have the best interest of people in mind, something which people in this community tend to forget.
I believe there's too much fear of this getting destroyed by political moralism, and well, I guess being reactionary to those people won't help. I wish spaces like this were given the opportunity of being candid.
 
LastFlowers

LastFlowers

the haru that can read
Apr 27, 2019
2,170
In the end, most people who do deliver criticism against the forum are just as human, and rarely have ill intentions. They almost always have the best interest of people in mind, something which people in this community tend to forget.
Well that is most definitely not the case.

Idk how high of a bar you have for "ill intentions" but everybody has their own agenda and moving forward with "the best interest" of the individuals on this site is clearly not one of them.

Nothing to forget, because it was never the case to begin with.
Actions speak louder than words and some words contradict and supersede other words.
The benefit of the doubt is not something these outsiders deserve, sadly not even at face value.
Most of them are pretty transparent and proud in their ignorance or wicked complexes.
 
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Andro • Ανδρομέδα

Andro • Ανδρομέδα

Member
Nov 12, 2022
54
Hostile responses to what kind of criticisms to the forum?

Compared to Reddit, this place is incredible. I'm planning on starting my own small social media come discussion site pretty soon, and I only wish I knew how to foster the kind of behaviour here there, instead of the bitterness, hostility, aggression and awful echo chambers of Reddit. I'd love to know SSu's secret. Yes, sure, it's a pro-choice echo chamber. But as echo chambers go, it's got a pretty good balance of views, and remarkably little hostility. Even in the most emotionally charged debates, people here usually find ways of expressing themselves without the need for downvotes/angry faces, reporting, name calling, belittling, witch hunting, you name it. People try to stay on topic, understand context, keep rational, and measure their responses proportionately, trying to stick to facts.

I do agree though, that "pro-life sentiments" or attitudes or anything geared towards keeping someone alive can be met with hostility, and that's an incredibly irresponsible reaction. But people, I guess, are possessive over this sanctuary, being perhaps the only one of its kind, where they can potentially seek almost encouraging sentiments to die, although meant from a good place, the overall drift is somewhat irresponsible without an equal, balanced opposing force. Otherwise it becomes pro-death, doesn't it? We're pro-choice. That should mean encouraging life, but accepting a firm choice of death if that's how someone feels. If we encouraged death, which we don't, we'd be exactly what the pro-lifers label us as. Pro-death. But also, if we negect to encourage life, that has a net drift of being pro-death too, given how suicidal people think. We want to be pro-choice, we say we're Pro choice, so let's be pro-choice by making sure we give encouraging prompts to live, as well as accepting when someone firmly wants to die and has explored recovery.
I am not used to reddit, I've read what you said about it though. Well, how do people here get to be moderators anyway? I'm not sure what to ask of them if I don't know them, and to what extent what can they ask of me if we the forum don't actually have some way of making policy for our own good. Idk if the mods here are going to keep doing good/mediocre job, you know?
 
jodes2

jodes2

Hello people ❤️
Aug 28, 2022
7,736
I am not used to reddit, I've read what you said about it though. Well, how do people here get to be moderators anyway? I'm not sure what to ask of them if I don't know them, and to what extent what can they ask of me if we the forum don't actually have some way of making policy for our own good. Idk if the mods here are going to keep doing good/mediocre job, you know?
I have a lot of confidence in the mods. I just wish there was a more balanced approach to pro-lifism than witch hunting people as pro-lifers who dare to encourage someone to try recovery. It's not received well in the suicide section, it would be nice if mods could calm that witch hunting down. But that's my take, what are your views on "mediocre moderation"? What exactly would you like the mods to do differently?
 
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LastFlowers

LastFlowers

the haru that can read
Apr 27, 2019
2,170
Oh boy, here it goes! The 1 thing that I ask of everybody is too be nice, thoughtful and considerate, with those aspects said here it is.

As far as for me, SS is a place for folks to come and figure things out. Too many times in the past, it is all about what method, goodbye and the like, without stopping to think.

I am pro-choice, no matter what anybody says or thinks. I am pro-choice about life, abortion, absolutely everything. It is NOIT up to me to influence anyone on anything ever and I never will.

I LOVE to help folks sort things out and make sure that they are thinking as rationally as possible, then go for it, whatever that may be.

This site has gathered some. in my viewpoint, not a lot but some attention because sometimes someone uploads a post about that they are going to ctb. I try, and am NOT anything but a normal average soul, to read between the lines and see if they are hurting and looking for a hug or validation that they are important in life.

Some comments are grossly one-sided as to what method and the like. It always interests me to see folks who always are go for it no matter what and they are still here, and have been of a longer period of time, hummm????

Like I said before being constructive in one's criticism of me but not personal as that does not advance this site at all.

For once since I have been on here, I have to finally get this off my chest as it has bugged me for so long.

Ctb us fine but makes sure one has their ducks in a row and it is one and done. where sometimes folks maybe just need a hug and take a step back and think then if after that ctb is on the deck so be it.

Walter
Yea, there have been times that I've openly questioned whether someone's plan was really a good idea or not, usually only if it's clear that it's going to cause them more problems than they might have bargained for.
Or if they willingly express trepidation.

It's more tricky when it's a goodbye thread because their minds apparently have been made up and they just want their decisions and reasons why to be respected.
(Which is part of why I will not be making a goodbye thread of my own, when the time comes. I will not be open to other input and I also want the decision/date to be on my own terms, as much as humanly possible.
I don't want to have to worry about the logistics of a post/thread.)

Unfortunately I think some people use the opportunity for "constructive criticism" to project their own demons or to push their own goals onto the other person, even though they are not the ones who have to live that other person's life.
And said other person may rightfully question the naysayer.
Wondering if they're really worried about them, or if they've got their own motives that ultimately will never align with the other person's intentions for themselves.
(Having this site open to the public and so many other factions or sectors of the internet, is only adding to the "paranoia". )
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
43,359
I don't understand what the point of this thread is. If you have a problem with this site then nobody is forcing you to come on it, it's as simple as that.
 
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whywere

Illuminated
Jun 26, 2020
3,397
I don't understand what the point of this thread is. If you have a problem with this site then nobody is forcing you to come on it, it's as simple as that.
I do NOT have a problem with this site at all, it serves a very useful aspect, what I have a problem with is the fact that instead of looking beyond the words of a post and trying to understand sometimes, it seems to be easier for a few to just to say either what method or this life is nothing but suffering and those same folks are here forever.

Makes one think does it not?

Walter

I care about folks a hell of a lot and if someone, there in again ctb's, fine, but not constantly see no compassion or trying to understand, just a quick fantastic you are ctbing no more suffering!!, maybe look beyond a bit 1st.

That is why in my thoughts this site has come under attack so much, as we ALL should work together, and if it is suicide for someone so be it, BUT darn it anyway, feel for the poor soul and not be so blatant about it. Then we are nothing but a lightning rod.
I will lay it all out there. I LOVE each and every person here I would love to see us pull together and help people one way or the other and try to understand them, NOT be so Nilly willy and say goodbye with trying to feel for them.

No pity party here but lay it on the line. Till I had my growth spurt at around 12 or so, my "dad" beat the hell out of me. After I got way over 6 feet tall, he stopped, gee I wonder why? He never laid a hand on my older brother or sister.

When I got 18. I was kicked out and having grown up on a dairy farm, I had ZERO money and was homeless for a while and thank GOD there where folks who had pity on me and feed me.

Went to college at 24, after I had saved up enough money, my sister went, and my "parents" paid for everything including a new car.

When my "parents" died they left my younger sister a hobby farm and cash and my older brother got 4 million U.S. dollars and I got ZERO.

Yep, I made it on my own bootstraps, never ever in my life have I been given anything ever.

Fast forward to 2014 and never drank, smoked nor did street drugs and bang Gall Bladder cancer. Chemo was NOT fun at all. In 2015 cancer free, the best words in my life.

Then 1 month latter I was driving South and a person in their twenties was driving East, and he blew through the stop sign and I t-boned him. It tore part of my spinal column out of the base of my brain and now I have 24/7 chronic pain and am losing the functioning on the right side of my body. Of course, the lad who blew through the stop sign did not get a scratch AND he tried to claim that there was a "mystery driver " behind him who forced him out into the lane of traffic. Other words he did NOT want to take responsibility for it of course.

I mention my life for 1 reason and 1 reason alone. I HAVE been through the mill of life and yes, I have life experiences and with that said that is why I care about everyone and want the best for them no matter what it might be.

The reason for my posts is that the author of this post so wisely asked if trust is here. For me the resounding answer is YES.

Walter
 
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SamTam33

Warlock
Oct 9, 2022
763
Regardless of what we do or what we say - outsiders aren't ever going to look upon this place in a favorable light.

So why all the hand-wringing in an effort to obtain their approval. Why are other people's opinions so effin important?

This forum doesn't need "some work."

What's the blueprint. What do the final plans look like? How will you know when it's been sufficiently revamped.

Just because it leans heavily towards ctb doesn't make it a death cult. And so what if it was.

Seriously. So what? How does the label change anything.

If someone decided to label us The Mighty Minions of Satan, does that make it true? Should we set about enacting changes in hopes that they'll stop calling us that?

Just abide by the rules. Give advice when asked. Offer support when able. Talk about your own struggles. Commiserate.
 
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WorthlessTrash

WorthlessTrash

Worthless
Apr 19, 2022
2,431
Well, the section that you posted this in (suicide discussion) is mainly for and should be assumed that anyone posting here has reached the conclusion that their life isn't worth salvaging (Unless otherwise stated). I think most people including myself post here to have our feelings validated and understood.

There is a recovery section to encourage solutions other than CTB where anyone is free to post if they so desire.

That being said, I do not believe it is wrong to offer advice to someone in the suicide discussion and discourage CTBing without trying other solutions provided that the poster in question hasn't expressed or implied they are absolutely sure of their decision to CTB.

I don't think anyone here actually "wants" another poster dead. I do think we are just empathetic of the other's feelings and letting the choice be in their hands. I also think that you are subconsiously allowing tenta's video and all of the recent drama trick you into believing that some users want others "dead".
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
43,359
it seems to be easier for a few to just to say either what method or this life is nothing but suffering and tose same folsk are here forever.
This is a suicide discussion though for people to vent and post about suicide related topics. Like what are you expecting. If people want to discuss "recovery", then there is a whole section for that. If people find this forum too pessimistic or whatever then they can just go off the site and enjoy life instead. I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure that people don't come on suicide discussions to have unsolicited advice forced on them when they just wanted to vent, have their suffering invalidated by someone who cannot experience life the same way, and be treated like a child who cannot make decisions for themselves. To be pro choice means to respect people's decisions about whether they choose to live or die, not to push life valuing beliefs onto someone.

There's nothing wrong with what this site stands for and anyway people aren't being told that they must die, and nobody is being forced to ctb, instead people who want to die get their decision respected. So therefore there is no problem.
I don't know if the OP is trying to make people feel paranoid or something but I get bad vibes from threads like this. It's like I don't know what they are trying to achieve by posting this, but anyway if people want to spend their time posting about non existent problems then good luck to them. Respecting someone's decision to ctb when they want to die is compassionate by the way.
 
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blackwidow

blackwidow

Road to nowhere
Aug 12, 2022
231
I don't understand what the point of this thread is. If you have a problem with this site then nobody is forcing you to come on it, it's as simple as that.
Your opinion... But rude.
I understand the op thread, so do others.. So maybe if you have nothing constructive to say, don't say anything.. Simple.
..
 
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livingdeadgrl

livingdeadgrl

Member
Jan 23, 2023
24
I guess it's really hard to draw a line that divides exacly what's right and what's wrong, I ask myself this a lot and I still don't come to a conclusion. You look like you have some sugestions and I would love to hear it, for real. The problem you pointed out exists and is very fair to discuss about it, but I'd like to see you elaborate on that a little.

Also, I really think this forum is so full of kind people, based of course on what I saw. I never felt so free to talk about my personal experience, fears, thoughts so freely in any cyberspace like in here, without judgment. Because we know that if you made this so far that you are here, we know that you already suffer enough outside. Have you already been on Twitter? I MEAN!!
 
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whywere

Illuminated
Jun 26, 2020
3,397
I guess it's really hard to draw a line that divides exacly what's right and what's wrong, I ask myself this a lot and I still don't come to a conclusion. You look like you have some sugestions and I would love to hear it, for real. The problem you pointed out exists and is very fair to discuss about it, but I'd like to see you elaborate on that a little.

Also, I really think this forum is so full of kind people, based of course on what I saw. I never felt so free to talk about my personal experience, fears, thoughts so freely in any cyberspace like in here, without judgment. Because we know that if you made this so far that you are here, we know that you already suffer enough outside. Have you already been on Twitter? I MEAN!!
You, my good friend is a shining example of why I love being on here. Having folks like YOU, who are loving kind and thoughtful makes my life so much better.

Hand in hand, shoulder to shoulder and caring and love for all, with me trying to have a deep understanding of helping folks.

Have a great week and lots of well wishes to you.

Walter
 
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A

absolomonisgone

Specialist
Jan 23, 2023
322
This is a suicide discussion though for people to vent and post about suicide related topics. Like what are you expecting. If people want to discuss "recovery", then there is a whole section for that. If people find this forum too pessimistic or whatever then they can just go off the site and enjoy life instead. I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure that people don't come on suicide discussions to have unsolicited advice forced on them when they just wanted to vent, have their suffering invalidated by someone who cannot experience life the same way, and be treated like a child who cannot make decisions for themselves. To be pro choice means to respect people's decisions about whether they choose to live or die, not to push life valuing beliefs onto someone.

There's nothing wrong with what this site stands for and anyway people aren't being told that they must die, and nobody is being forced to ctb, instead people who want to die get their decision respected. So therefore there is no problem.
I don't know if the OP is trying to make people feel paranoid or something but I get bad vibes from threads like this. It's like I don't know what they are trying to achieve by posting this, but anyway if people want to spend their time posting about non existent problems then good luck to them. Respecting someone's decision to ctb when they want to die is compassionate by the way.
Thank you
 
locked*n*loaded

locked*n*loaded

Archangel
Apr 15, 2022
8,901
I agree with @FuneralCry in that I don't understand the point of this thread, either. If you want to end your so-called suffering, get some therapy. SS is not a group of therapists. Also, there is a Recovery section if you feel you are moving away from the CTB urge. There's nothing wrong with that. I really don't see encouragement for people to go and CTB on here. I see respect for people to make their own decisions about what is best for them. There are as many opinions in this world as there are people, and SS is no different. If you don't like someone's opinion, just ignore it if it doesn't jive with your own philosophies.

Your opinion... But rude.
I understand the op thread, so do others.. So maybe if you have nothing constructive to say, don't say anything.. Simple.
..
Who made you the opinion police? Either everyone's opinion is valid, or NONE are valid.
 
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LastFlowers

LastFlowers

the haru that can read
Apr 27, 2019
2,170
I have a lot of confidence in the mods. I just wish there was a more balanced approach to pro-lifism than witch hunting people as pro-lifers who dare to encourage someone to try recovery. It's not received well in the suicide section, it would be nice if mods could calm that witch hunting down. But that's my take, what are your views on "mediocre moderation"? What exactly would you like the mods to do differently?
But how are you supposed to embark on a balanced approach to something that, itself, is not balanced. And never will be.
It's a pro-choice board, it's not going to completely cater to the far end of either spectrum, especially the "pro-lifism" end that already has its hands in every other pot in existence.
What's wrong with leaving this one alone?


If somebody takes issue with this place, they quite literally have everywhere else on planet earth and the web, to go.
They're not hurting for a space like many here were…and will be again, if people continue to justify hacking away at its current state.
Enough already I say.
It's like yanking a bloody and battered individual from their deathbed and shoving them into an arena with a vigorous opponent whilst demanding "fight them, fight them and only then will I concede that you have any right to an expedited death".
Even though that poor person has probably already fought a million battles and is just plain tired. They just want some peace before they go. The very least they could hope for.
But everyone and their brother thinks they're the first, thinks they're the one, they're the savior that will change a person's mind.
They think they have the answer to someone else's miserable existence.
Those people need to get the fuck over themselves and pay attention to their own damn lives.
Ask themselves how and why they even have the time & energy to push their nose into somebody else's business.

Unfortunately..again..I think this site becoming easier to find since having been blasted by dubious parties, has resulted in diluting the usual crowd with people who probably shouldn't even be on here, people who can afford an extremely flippant handling of the conversation because they have an "I could take it or leave it" attitude.
When I first came here, you had to dig to find this place. You really had to want it.
You really had to need it.
(Including those who stuck around and didn't end up committing suicide.)
And so you weren't going to risk its existence once you found it, you weren't going to play games with your only respite and gathering of kindred spirits.
But now?
Too many here are just fucking around.
They don't take the necessity of this site seriously.
And so they're fine with jeopardizing it for everyone else and searching for supposed weak spots to criticize, to pass the time and shoot the shit.
Forgetting that their self-described critical eye would best be employed elsewhere, the rest of society possessing far more faults in need of addressing.


Encouragement to continue on can be harmful in and of itself.
Because it can equate to prolonging or even compounding the current level of suffering.
Sometimes pushing people past their known limit and timeline to the point/degree that they actually become impulsive.
Holding someone back doesn't always make them question things, it could just as often heighten their fear or aggression or fervor, so once you finally let go, they spin out of control and just look for the nearest sharp object.
I have actually begun to take issue with the term "recover" because some people here take it and run with it to the point that they assume every detriment can be "recovered" from and it is somehow their civic duty to interrogate members about their predicaments, always letting their own biases bleed through.

I've accidentally ended up on the recovery forum before because I peruse the "what's new section" and don't always look where the fuck I am going.
When I do end up giving my two cents and realize my mistake, I do take a step back and have an "oh, well shit" moment.
Although a lot of the time I realize that my words could be interpreted more than one way and aren't even a deterrent to "recovering" so I leave them.
Do other people implement such hesitation or regret when stepping all over the suicide discussion forum?
No, apparently not.
They think it's perfectly within their rights to cause a fuss and be thoughtlessly contrarian.
The respect and discretion never goes both ways.
To me, that's a problem.
Why does that problem deserve less acknowledgment than the opposite?
 
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absolomonisgone

Specialist
Jan 23, 2023
322
I agree with @FuneralCry in that I don't understand the point of this thread, either. If you want to end your so-called suffering, get some therapy. SS is not a group of therapists. Also, there is a Recovery section if you feel you are moving away from the CTB urge. There's nothing wrong with that. I really don't see encouragement for people to go an CTB on here. I see respect for people to make their own decisions about what is best for them. There are as many opinions in this world as there are people, and SS is no different. If you don't like someone's opinion, just ignore it if it doesn't jive with your own philosophies.


Thank you
 
S

SamTam33

Warlock
Oct 9, 2022
763
...If somebody takes issue with this place, they quite literally have everywhere else on planet earth and the web, to go.
They're not hurting for a space like many here were…and will be again, if people continue to justify hacking away at its current state...
This really resonates with me.

Practically every other space is already designed to be exactly what some want this site to turn into.

I swear conformity/uniformity is a god-damned disease.

God forbid, there's ONE place on the entire internet that isn't exactly like the rest. Let's band together and force it to be just like all the others!

It's the downside of the movement where "everyone needs to be heard" and "everyone deserves a voice."

Sometimes that's just not true. Not everything needs to be perfectly balanced with an equal amount of yays and nays.

This isn't a neutral forum. Not every pro-suicide post needs to be met with a pro-life rebuttal.

But that's what I think some want. It bothers them that the ctb voice is getting too loud.

So they want to neutralize it and squash some of the support.

Fuck off and leave us alone in our misery. If we want to be saved, we'll send for you.
 
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jodes2

jodes2

Hello people ❤️
Aug 28, 2022
7,736
But how are you supposed to embark on a balanced approach to something that, itself, is not balanced. And never will be.
It's a pro-choice board, it's not going to completely cater to the far end of either spectrum, especially the "pro-lifism" end that already has its hands in every other pot in existence.
What's wrong with leaving this one alone?


If somebody takes issue with this place, they quite literally have everywhere else on planet earth and the web, to go.
They're not hurting for a space like many here were…and will be again, if people continue to justify hacking away at its current state.
Enough already I say.
It's like yanking a bloody and battered individual from their deathbed and shoving them into an arena with a vigorous opponent whilst demanding "fight them, fight them and only then will I concede that you have any right to an expedited death".
Even though that poor person has probably already fought a million battles and is just plain tired. They just want some peace before they go. The very least they could hope for.
But everyone and their brother thinks they're the first, thinks they're the one, they're the savior that will change a person's mind.
They think they have the answer to someone else's miserable existence.
Those people need to get the fuck over themselves and pay attention to their own damn lives.
Ask themselves how and why they even have the time & energy to push their nose into somebody else's business.

Unfortunately..again..I think this site becoming easier to find since having been blasted by dubious parties, has resulted in diluting the usual crowd with people who probably shouldn't even be on here, people who can afford an extremely flippant handling of the conversation because they have an "I could take it or leave it" attitude.
When I first came here, you had to dig to find this place. You really had to want it.
You really had to need it.
(Including those who stuck around and didn't end up committing suicide.)
And so you weren't going to risk its existence once you found it, you weren't going to play games with your only respite and gathering of kindred spirits.
But now?
Too many here are just fucking around.
They don't take the necessity of this site seriously.
And so they're fine with jeopardizing it for everyone else and searching for supposed weak spots to criticize, to pass the time and shoot the shit.
Forgetting that their self-described critical eye would best be employed elsewhere, the rest of society possessing far more faults in need of addressing.


Encouragement to continue on can be harmful in and of itself.
Because it can equate to prolonging or even compounding the current level of suffering.
Sometimes pushing people past their known limit and timeline to the point/degree that they actually become impulsive.
Holding someone back doesn't always make them question things, it could just as often heighten their fear or aggression or fervor, so once you finally let go, they spin out of control and just look for the nearest sharp object.
I have actually begun to take issue with the term "recover" because some people here take it and run with it to the point that they assume every detriment can be "recovered" from and it is somehow their civic duty to interrogate members about their predicaments, always letting their own biases bleed through.

I've accidentally ended up on the recovery forum before because I peruse the "what's new section" and don't always look where the fuck I am going.
When I do end up giving my two cents and realize my mistake, I do take a step back and have an "oh, well shit" moment.
Although a lot of the time I realize that my words could be interpreted more than one way and aren't even a deterrent to "recovering" so I leave them.
Do other people implement such hesitation or regret when stepping all over the suicide discussion forum?
No, apparently not.
They think it's perfectly within their rights to cause a fuss and be thoughtlessly contrarian.
The respect and discretion never goes both ways.
To me, that's a problem.
Why does that problem deserve less acknowledgment than the opposite?
You don't want this place to turn into a pro-death echo chamber full of people ushering others to their death with no regard for life. That would be both unethical and criminal. I like to try and balance things in a similar way to hoe euthanasia clinics might. Help people who are easier to help to recover, and those that aren't, help them to die peacefully. You can't have you cake and eat it. Banishing any forms of support to live would make this place a place of extremism, with an echo chamber filled with spiralling death chants and god knows what. I promise, that's what happens in echo chambers with no balancing forces. Both sides need to learn to cooperate and communicate to maintain rationality. Just like pro-life subs on Reddit are not balanced and harmful for people who really have no choice but to kill themselves, a pro-death site would be extremely harmful to everyone involved with a person who could be helped with one tablet and just a few bloody hours of therapy. It's hardly asking much. You need to be rational about this. Both sides need to give and take. I've had this battle in my mind a lot, I've done plenty of giving and taking from both points of view, I'm very comfortable that I know where a comfortable middle ground is that I can sit without feeling guilty one way or the other.

I've been suicidal and regretted it, I've been suicidal and not regretted it. I've been suicidal a lot. I really o get it. Sometimes I needed to be helped whether I liked it or not. At other times, it would have been better to help me die. It's a difficult but important judgement call that needs moderation and self control and reflection and deep consideration and empathy while applying.

If someone wants help from me to kill themselves, I'm not gonna hand out the tools to someone I think is close to a breakthrough in recovery. End of story. I have principles. But it's not my position to stop others from doing it, however much I might disagree with that they're doing. That's just the nature of this site, and maybe life. But I think in a suicide clinic my approach might be considered reasonable, if still a little lax. I give out help on dying still when I probably should think harder! Try harder to help someone consider recovery more first. But I guess that's the effect on me of being on a site that leans more towards pro-death, I'm susceptible to peer pressure too. That's the danger of this site. It's kinda toxic because it defeats rational thought to some degree.

A lot of the time, when I see excessive pro-death sentiments, I just have to shake my head and walk away. I don't have the power to change such strong currents as one Pro choice individual. It saddens me when people enter that cult mentality. But I just have to let it be. So yes, it certainly does happen on the suicide section. You need a reality check. A great deal of consideration is given at every stage as to what's appropriate.
 
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SamTam33

Warlock
Oct 9, 2022
763
...a pro-death site would be extremely harmful to everyone involved with a person who could be helped with one tablet and just a few bloody hours of therapy.
This is the problem with anti-suicide sentiment in a nutshell.

The sheer absurdity that brains can be re-engineered with a tablet and a few hours of therapy.

As if a lifetime of trauma can be undone with a pill and some conversations.

It's like some kind of savior complex, not uncommon with pastors and priests. Eat these crackers and sip this grape juice (take these pills and talk to this therapist). Then you'll be saved.

Unfortunately SS has been chosen as their congregation.
 
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jodes2

jodes2

Hello people ❤️
Aug 28, 2022
7,736
One negative thought can be identified in 20 inutes, replaced in 20 minutes and practiced over a couple of weeks. I've done it myself. Fact. A number of times over years. It can be that quick if you have a good therapist. Imagine. Being 35. Having suffered tremendously with thoughts for 30 years. To have one eliminated like that. Miracles happen. You just need a competent therapist trained in what you need who understands your problem and can communicate and get on with you effectively. I never had much luck with pills myself, but my girlfriend has. It changed her in the space of one to two weeks. It was the third one she had to try. Unfortunately that took years because the mental health service here is painfully slow and they denied her treatments for a year at a time. But the eventual change was nothing short of fucking miraculous. It had been causing regular very stressful arguments. Then she goes on the third antidepressant and after 10 days, bam, it was like she was another person.

Listen to the wisdom of experience my young friend.


It's not some voodoo shit. Often it needs hard work and a lot of patience. But then you get some luck, happen to find the right meds, or happen to find the right therapist, shit gets done.
 
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SamTam33

Warlock
Oct 9, 2022
763
One negative thought can be identified in 20 inutes, replaced in 20 minutes and practiced over a couple of weeks. I've done it myself. Fact. A number of times over years. It can be that quick if you have a good therapist. Imagine. Being 35. Having suffered tremendously with thoughts for 30 years. To have one eliminated like that. Miracles happen. You just need a competent therapist trained in what you need who understands your problem and can communicate and get on with you effectively. I never had much luck with pills myself, but my girlfriend has. It changed her in the space of one to two weeks. It was the third one she had to try. Unfortunately that took years because the mental health service here is painfully slow and they denied her treatments for a year at a time. But the eventual change was nothing short of fucking miraculous. It had been causing regular very stressful arguments. Then she goes on the third antidepressant and after 10 days, bam, it was like she was another person.

Listen to the wisdom of experience my young friend
Are there any pills that can pay my house note? I need those.
 
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livingdeadgrl

livingdeadgrl

Member
Jan 23, 2023
24
This is the problem with anti-suicide sentiment in a nutshell.

The sheer absurdity that brains can be re-engineered with a tablet and a few hours of therapy.

As if a lifetime of trauma can be undone with a pill and some conversations.

It's like some kind of savior complex, not uncommon with pastors and priests. Eat these crackers and sip this grape juice (take these pills and talk to this therapist). Then you'll be saved.

Unfortunately SS has been chosen as their congregation.
Let me see if I understood what you are saying: therapy and medication really helps and that is scientifically proven, are you desagreeing with that?
If is that what you mean, it's not the same as saying it's work for everybody. It work in some cases, and may work for someone who is in this site. Can we agree on that point?
Because if we can't, you're just proving OP's point.
 
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SamTam33

Warlock
Oct 9, 2022
763
Let me see if I understood what you are saying: therapy and medication really helps and that is scientifically proven, are you desagreeing with that?
If is that what you mean, it's not the same as saying it's work for everybody. It work in some cases, and may work for someone who is in this site. Can we agree on that point?
Because if we can't, you're just proving OP's point.
Sure it might work for some, and that audience is in The Recovery Forum. That way ➡️

As if no one has ever suggested a pill and a therapist to us before...

Like Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on your door with little pamphlets. Because if they don't come to your house and tell you about God, you'll never know.
 
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LastFlowers

LastFlowers

the haru that can read
Apr 27, 2019
2,170
Let me see if I understood what you are saying: therapy and medication really helps and that is scientifically proven, are you desagreeing with that?
If is that what you mean, it's not the same as saying it's work for everybody. It work in some cases, and may work for someone who is in this site. Can we agree on that point?
Because if we can't, you're just proving OP's point.
So we automatically prove points by disagreeing with them?
Never heard of that one before.
I must've proved a lot of points in my day.
Didn't realize until now that they weren't my own.

Sounds like a set up.
Reminds me of the "discoveries" of supposed psych diagnoses and the biased studies surrounding meds and therapy techniques, basically set up to be proven in favor of the field's paradigm, no matter the outcome, with absolutely abysmal attempts at establishing falsifiability- a cornerstone of legitimate science.

And regardless of what I have to say, @SamTam33 already stated why it doesn't matter either way..even if you admit the present methods "work" for some people, it's absolutely besides the point where the current thread discussion is concerned.



But the eventual change was nothing short of fucking miraculous. It had been causing regular very stressful arguments. Then she goes on the third antidepressant and after 10 days, bam, it was like she was another person.

I am sorry but I cannot help but notice how it sounds like it helped you more than it helped her.
This is eerily evocative of old time lobotomies.
AKA: Did it really solve her problems or did it just make her shut up about them?
Obviously I'm being hyperbolic, but altering, sedating or suppressing the systems via medication usually has more to do with making a patient agreeable to their situation, rather than making a situation agreeable to the patient.
Having an appreciable effect doesn't mean the effect was a true solution.

Anyway, that's awful fast, especially for a type of drug they say usually takes longer to build up in the system.
The placebo effect could be at play.

And again, most people in the suicide discussion forum have "been there, done that".
 
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SamTam33

Warlock
Oct 9, 2022
763
...If you have a serial killer that tortured and killed 100 humans then no one would defend them and say look at this good that they did. But life has tortured and killed tens of billions of humans and trillions of other animals and sentient beings. But then people say look at this "good" thing in life...
Life is the original serial killer.

You start dying from the moment you're born.

You can stick around and wait for death to come to you. Or you can go find it and get it over with.

If you're having fun and want to wait it out, more power to you. But get the hell out of my way and stop blocking my path when I set out to find it.

But more to your point, it's inexplicable how life can abuse a person and they're told to suck it up and accept it; keep enduring it no matter what.

But these same PSA groups who advertise suicide hotlines - will have another hotline for people who want to LEAVE their abusive spouses.

One phone number to help you leave an abusive situation. Another one to make you stay.

How could they even explain that.

 
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